Apple could nearly buy the mobile phone industry

[badb0y]

How is this not relevant to this forum? We talk about market share numbers here all the time and how Google is sky rocketing while RIM is failing but if we bring up the fact that Apple can buy most of the players in the mobile market then people start complaining.

It's like:

GOOGLE FANBOYS: "MARKET SHARE MARKET SHARE MARKET SHARE"
APPLE FANBOYS: "MARKET CAP MARKET CAP MARKET CAP"
GOOGLE FANBOYS: "WOWOWOWOWOWOW YOU JUST CROSSED THE LINE BUDDY GO TO OT WITH THIS MARKET CAP NONSENSE"
RIM FANBOYS: "WELL THIS IS AWKWARD"

 

[WelshBloke]

How is this not relevant to this forum? We talk about market share numbers here all the time and how Google is sky rocketing while RIM is failing but if we bring up the fact that Apple can buy most of the players in the mobile market then people start complaining.

Because the forum is supposed to be about "mobile devices and gadgets" not company financials.

 

[akugami]

Because the forum is supposed to be about "mobile devices and gadgets" not company financials.

We had a similar discussion in Video Cards when discussing the latest financials of AMD and nVidia. To a degree it is relevant because it shows the health of the company and how well received some of the products from said companies are. In Apple, we're talking about a company that went from being nearly bankrupt to one of the wealthiest and successful companies in the last 10 years.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Yep, use the RIM death watch thread, aka train wrecks in motion

Where did I put that link?

 

[poofyhairguy]

This thread has become everything awesome about this part of the forum.

 

[WelshBloke]

We had a similar discussion in Video Cards when discussing the latest financials of AMD and nVidia. To a degree it is relevant because it shows the health of the company and how well received some of the products from said companies are. In Apple, we're talking about a company that went from being nearly bankrupt to one of the wealthiest and successful companies in the last 10 years.

This forum isnt about Apple or HTC or RIM. Its about the products they make, this thread is not about any of those products.

 

[mammador]

Because the forum is supposed to be about "mobile devices and gadgets" not company financials.

Doesn't a firm's performance affect it's ability to compete in the marketplace?

 

[BenSkywalker]

Really?

Let's inject a small dose of reality into the conversation. If we exclude the majority of the large corporations involved in the mobile sector then this artice would have some merit.

nVidia $9.8 Billion
TI $37.2 Billion
Dell $30.8 Billion

And then we get in to the big boys-

Qualcomm- $90.87 Billion
HP- $73.2 Billion
MS- $208 Billion
Google- $158 Billion
Samsung- $121 Billion

Apple could nearly buy the mobile phone industry? Seriously, laughable. 'Apple could nearly buy all of the smaller mobile phone centered OEMs' would be an accurate statement.

 

[WelshBloke]

Doesn't a firm's performance affect it's ability to compete in the marketplace?

So? Thats still irrelevant.

If company A releases some interesting hardware or software relating to mobile devices then discuss it thats what this forum is for, its not (IMHO) for discussing companies financial status or market share or whether the CEO is a douchebag or not.

 

[mammador]

How else does a firm release a product without reference to its financial status? If Apple makes a loss, then it's less chance of an iPhone release.

 

[WelshBloke]

How else does a firm release a product without reference to its financial status? If Apple makes a loss, then it's less chance of an iPhone release.

You're saying you cant discuss whether and iPad is any good without looking at the companies balance sheet first?

 

[slayer202]

Wait I'm confused. Why are they comparing just the phone making arms of companies vs all of Apple? They make more then just phones also. Samsung is a behemoth of a company even compared to Apple.

Lol, cuz then this whole discussion would be stupid and pointless! Oh, it already is anyway

 

[akugami]

This forum isnt about Apple or HTC or RIM. Its about the products they make, this thread is not about any of those products.

Then there has to be a lot more threads that gets scrubbed from this forum. There's a few threads talking about the status of RIM and the viability of their ability to compete long term. That's not talking about the products they make either. The iOS vs Android vs Blackberry vs Palm vs WP7 marketshare discussions certainly aren't talking about any devices. We had a thread asking if anyone was still listening to the Engadget podcast.

In each case, an argument can be made to punt the thread to OT or some other forum. But a case (whether you agree or not) can be made for why they belong as well. This thread may not talk specifically about devices but some people are interested in the financial situations of the companies. This isn't bad information to know. If a company is doing bad you might be wary of buying a phone from them for example.

 

[WelshBloke]

Then there has to be a lot more threads that gets scrubbed from this forum. There's a few threads talking about the status of RIM and the viability of their ability to compete long term. That's not talking about the products they make either. The iOS vs Android vs Blackberry vs Palm vs WP7 marketshare discussions certainly aren't talking about any devices. We had a thread asking if anyone was still listening to the Engadget podcast.

In each case, an argument can be made to punt the thread to OT or some other forum. But a case (whether you agree or not) can be made for why they belong as well. This thread may not talk specifically about devices but some people are interested in the financial situations of the companies. This isn't bad information to know. If a company is doing bad you might be wary of buying a phone from them for example.

I'd happily punt those threads into OT as well.

The one thing all those subjects have in common (apart from not being about gadgets) is they are usually flame bait.


While I agree that financials are mildly tangential, I find them on topic because they can be predictive of future trends and events. I agree they tend to be flammable material but just because a topic causes passion, doesn't make it off-topic. I also think there's been several good discussions in this thread. I'm not going to debate the on-topic-ness of this thread in this thread. I judge it on-topic, if you disagree, let's have that discussion elsewhere. If you, Mr.Bloke, or anyone else have a comment about this thread or any posts in it, please PM myself and/or TheStu or report a post using the button in the lower-left.

Moderator PM

 

[DivideBYZero]

I'd happily punt those threads into OT as well.

The one thing all those subjects have in common (apart from not being about gadgets) is they are usually flame bait.

For realz.

It's pretty sad that you cannot discuss devices without someone calling up the financials of a company and decreeing that said device sucks because of a bad quarter or pithy quote from a C level exec.

Originally this forum was free for discussion of all devices, people would even ask for help with their mobile gadgets. Now if you don't own the Brand du jour you're flamed into the ground and called a retard. How very adult. :hmm:

 

[finbarqs]

all heil fuhrer jobs!


Infraction for trolling
Moderator PM

 

[finbarqs]

I think apple could if they fired everybody

 

[Pliablemoose]

I guess that since the gadget blogs address these topics, I feel comfortable starting threads like this.

And IIRC, the mode are in charge of modding, shoot them a pm, rather than clutter up the thread...

 

[Pliablemoose]

Doubleo post

 

[poofyhairguy]

It's pretty sad that you cannot discuss devices without someone calling up the financials of a company and decreeing that said device sucks because of a bad quarter or pithy quote from a C level exec.

Actually that indicates a very high level of discussion. On the rest of the Internet, the Smartphone Holy War is often a less sophisticated conversation among purist fan boys. At least most people here seem willing to be objective about platforms that aren't their favorite.

If you want trolling, here is an example:

Through its own initial carrier exclusivity mistake, Apple had created a vacuum across the other carriers which it should have known someone else would ultimately fill. But even as mainstream folks who rebuffed AT&T (or the designated exclusive carrier in their region) disinterestedly bought an Android phone because it was the best available option on their preferred carrier, geeks seized the opportunity to push their geek agenda onto the mainstream from the other side. As it turns out, the most aggressive salespeople in the kind of stores which specialize in selling smartphones tend to be hardcore geeks down the line. So in addition to employees at Verizon and Sprint retail stores pushing Android phones so as to keep customers from defecting to AT&T for the iPhone, geeks who worked at places like Best Buy and Radio Shack found themselves in a position to dogmatically promote the Android platform to unsuspecting consumers. As such, Android suddenly became the most widely bought product in history that almost no one seemed to actually enjoy using. Mainstream users didn’t know why they were ending up with Android phones; they just were.

http://www.beatweek.com/news/8631-i...nd-of-geek-dominance-android-battle-of-bulge/

Only a few posters on this forum hit those levels.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Actually that indicates a very high level of discussion. On the rest of the Internet, the Smartphone Holy War is often a less sophisticated conversation among purist fan boys. At least most people here seem willing to be objective about platforms that aren't their favorite.

If you want trolling, here is an example:



http://www.beatweek.com/news/8631-i...nd-of-geek-dominance-android-battle-of-bulge/

Only a few posters on this forum hit those levels.

I don't see how discussing CPUs requires a discussion on AMDs financials. If I'm asking for help OC'ing a processor I don't need someone reminding me that they are upside down on their fab costs, do I? So why would I need that type of discussion with regard to anything else, or in this case mobile devices?

If I like it, I buy it. If it needs tweaking, I ask for help. Declaring that I, personally, am a loser, a retard or in some way not intelligent enough to use the device you prefer based upon Market Share or quarterly numbers is puerile.

 

[poofyhairguy]

If I like it, I buy it. If it needs tweaking, I ask for help. Declaring that I, personally, am a loser, a retard or in some way not intelligent enough to use the device you prefer based upon Market Share or quarterly numbers is puerile.

The connection you are missing is that the popular products get (by FAR) the most community support. Therefore if someone is looking to buy a mobile product that is a dead end because it is not getting the support needed from the designers/company/carrier then it is relevant to inform that person of the trap they might be getting into.

In fact, I think discussions of financial reports and market-share is even MORE important on this forum then say the GPU forum because computers are almost completely moldable. If I get a Dell tower or a HP laptop, I can easily (by myself) install a fresh Windows or install some new part to fix an issue because computers are an open platform.

Mobile devices are layers of locks and traps, and without the work of a few bright stars in each community almost every device in the category would be limited. The number of bright stars in a community seems to be determined by all these high level questions because quite honestly supergeeks use these same criteria before THEY buy into a phone/platform.

I can't Jailbreak an iPhone from scratch, or root an Android phone from scratch. Most can't. And if you happen to pick a device that doesn't have a community that supports these functions due to the fact that hackers won't waste money on titanics, then you are screwed. So talking about which devices are popular and which companies will be there with full resources in the long haul (for non-hacker types) is very important.

One final thing: thanks to the system in the U.S. we are locked into phones for two years. That means every major phone purchase is not just a "what is hot now" decision, but a long term commitment with the company and carrier that you are hitched to. Therefore discussion about the longterm plans and outlooks of companies and carriers is in the best interest of all involved.

 

[DivideBYZero]

The connection you are missing is that the popular products get (by FAR) the most community support. Therefore if someone is looking to buy a mobile product that is a dead end because it is not getting the support needed from the designers/company/carrier then it is relevant to inform that person of the trap they might be getting into.

In fact, I think discussions of financial reports and market-share is even MORE important on this forum then say the GPU forum because computers are almost completely moldable. If I get a Dell tower or a HP laptop, I can easily (by myself) install a fresh Windows or install some new part to fix an issue because computers are an open platform.

Mobile devices are layers of locks and traps, and without the work of a few bright stars in each community almost every device in the category would be limited. The number of bright stars in a community seems to be determined by all these high level questions because quite honestly supergeeks use these same criteria before THEY buy into a phone/platform.

I can't Jailbreak an iPhone from scratch, or root an Android phone from scratch. Most can't. And if you happen to pick a device that doesn't have a community that supports these functions due to the fact that hackers won't waste money on titanics, then you are screwed. So talking about which devices are popular and which companies will be there with full resources in the long haul (for non-hacker types) is very important.

One final thing: thanks to the system in the U.S. we are locked into phones for two years. That means every major phone purchase is not just a "what is hot now" decision, but a long term commitment with the company and carrier that you are hitched to. Therefore discussion about the longterm plans and outlooks of companies and carriers is in the best interest of all involved.

I'm not missing anything. You're missing the fact that you feel a device needs hackers to be of any use. That's just plain wrong.

And on your second point, I'm fully aware of how the mobile phone industry operates, but let's be honest, phones don't stop working when the market share declines. If it was a good fit on day one then it will probably be a good fit in two years. If not, get a shorter term or buy off contract. No phone truly lasts two years in these fast moving times or we would all be rocking G1s & Original Droids and lapping it up, so your point is moot at best, especially when you are addressing the enthusiast crowd that typically trades in ~6-12 monthly cycles.

 

[WelshBloke]

The connection you are missing is that the popular products get (by FAR) the most community support. Therefore if someone is looking to buy a mobile product that is a dead end because it is not getting the support needed from the designers/company/carrier then it is relevant to inform that person of the trap they might be getting into.

In fact, I think discussions of financial reports and market-share is even MORE important on this forum then say the GPU forum because computers are almost completely moldable. If I get a Dell tower or a HP laptop, I can easily (by myself) install a fresh Windows or install some new part to fix an issue because computers are an open platform.

Mobile devices are layers of locks and traps, and without the work of a few bright stars in each community almost every device in the category would be limited. The number of bright stars in a community seems to be determined by all these high level questions because quite honestly supergeeks use these same criteria before THEY buy into a phone/platform.

I can't Jailbreak an iPhone from scratch, or root an Android phone from scratch. Most can't. And if you happen to pick a device that doesn't have a community that supports these functions due to the fact that hackers won't waste money on titanics, then you are screwed. So talking about which devices are popular and which companies will be there with full resources in the long haul (for non-hacker types) is very important.

One final thing: thanks to the system in the U.S. we are locked into phones for two years. That means every major phone purchase is not just a "what is hot now" decision, but a long term commitment with the company and carrier that you are hitched to. Therefore discussion about the longterm plans and outlooks of companies and carriers is in the best interest of all involved.

Yeah, but community device support is usually device specific not platform specific, an unlock or ROM for a Desire wont work on an EVO. So arguments about market share there are pointless.

Company financials are even more irrelevant to support.

And a small market share doesn't mean a small base of user support. Hell look at desktop Linux, that's got ah heck all market share but I always get better, quicker and more knowledgeable help there than for just about anything else.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I'm not missing anything. You're missing the fact that you feel a device needs hackers to be of any use. That's just plain wrong.

I didn't say that a device needs hacking. What I was saying is that the hacking potential for a particular device is often determined by market-share and public opinion. It was a response to the implication that this forum is intended to be just a light-and-friendly mobile device enthusiastic forum. The connection is that if that is the purpose of this forum, then it is relevant to talk about higher level issues as such issues can determine the usefulness of a device to the enthusiastic segment.

And on your second point, I'm fully aware of how the mobile phone industry operates, but let's be honest, phones don't stop working when the market share declines. If it was a good fit on day one then it will probably be a good fit in two years.

That was true maybe four years ago, but nowadays thanks to the high expense and functionality of mobile devices if you purchase one you expect at least one or two OS upgrades. A phone stops being a "good fit" when that new killer app comes out that could technically work on your hardware but requires the newest version of your mobile OS which your phone doesn't have because it was a dead-end from the start.

If not, get a shorter term or buy off contract.

Shorter term contracts have been done away with and out-of-contract phones are extreme prices. Sure some enthusiasts buy out of contract, but most here on this forum seem to use upgrades when they can. That means two years cycles and long-term interest.

No phone truly lasts two years in these fast moving times or we would all be rocking G1s & Original Droids and lapping it up, so your point is moot at best, especially when you are addressing the enthusiast crowd that typically trades in ~6-12 monthly cycles.

I don't get your point here. I see many people here rocking original Droids (often they are hacked to run the newest OS, but still) or old iPhones. Others have 12month+ phones like the Evo. Some of the community seems focused on getting the maximum life out of old equipment, while others have four phones with a new one every six months. You are making generalizations.

I have a two year old iPhone 3GS, I think it ended up being a good purchase considering that they are still being sold as new today. I got a full two years out of it. My sister's iPhone 3G was not such a good deal, but I knew to avoid that model. How? High level discussion on the long-term on forums such as this one.