apple cinema 20"

[tekno82]

I am contemplating getting an apple cinema 20" or 23" LCD display. Price is really no object and I am a design nut, but want to know how smoothly operation goes on a PC.

Anyone's experiences with this monitor would be really helpful. I am running on a Sapphire radeon 9800 pro 128mb and have heard conflicting info about loss of POST/BIOS, so anyone with direct experience in this setup is especially interesting since I will not be switching my video card anytime soon.

Any intelligent comments on image quality, ghosting/trailing in games etc are welcome! Look forward to hearing some positive and helpful things!

 

[zakee00]

all that ive heard are positive things, but i dont own one personally. i know my 15" powerbook display is gr8 though
i think you would be very happy with one
edit: how can a monitor cause your system not to post, let alone screw your bios?

 

[tekno82]

i was a little unclear. ive heard some real dodgy explanations about why the POST screen doesnt show. the computer boots, but the monitor supposedly sits in standby during POST until windows initializes display drivers, hence POST is not lost, just the display is. this is what ive read. its supposedly a problem isolated to newer generation nvidia cards and ATI cards.

people attribute it to display signal being sent selectively to the analog output, but i dont buy it. i have never heard of other monitors running on the DVI and not showing the POST screen. might have something to do with apple's DVI interface but again, i have yet to find a technically convincing argument, just double-talk and conjecture.

 

[Geomagick]

I find that if the computer is cold when I boot I quite often don't see the post come up on my LCD - a samsung 191T, the PC boots quicker than the monitor warms up. Easy way to get round this if you want to see the post is disable quick boot. On most systems the post screen will be visible for up to a minute.

 

[tekno82]

interesting, ill see if anyone has done this. anyone else who actually owns an apple cinema want to chime in? ive seen you guys post before, i know you are there

 

[zakee00]

i mean, the cinemas are supposed to be windows compatable, apple says so themselves:"Windows-based PCs with graphics card that supports DVI ports with full single link digital bandwidth and VESA DDC standard for plug and play setup."
obviously, the 30" is a different story.

 

[bjc112]

I have hooked it up to multiple HP machines and it works well.

Now I don't know if you are 100% set on the Apple, but the Dell 2005fp is worth a look.
I know Apple just dropped their prices, but considering you can get the 2005fp for as low as $500 it's worth a look.

Better contrast.
Better Brightness
Better response ( grey grey )
Rotates 90 degress
Height adjustable
Composite Video
S Video

CONS:

Not as aesthetically nice..
No metal frame.




The horror stories you may read on the 2005fp are true, but there are also a lot of postives on it as well.

I have hooked my 2005fp next to the Apple display and the consensus is, "as good" or "better"


Worth a shot my friend..



Here's some pics to munch on.

Dell 2005fp

 

[tekno82]

i have also been looking at the dell...how do they compare in dealing with fast-motion sequences in movies and games? is there any difference in level of ghosting/trailing?

what is the main difference in rendering of color images? is one percetpively warmer than the other?

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: tekno82
i have also been looking at the dell...how do they compare in dealing with fast-motion sequences in movies and games? is there any difference in level of ghosting/trailing?

what is the main difference in rendering of color images? is one percetpively warmer than the other?

Well I consider myself to be a big gamer and I am completely satisfied.. No ghosting. 12ms should be enough to combat that..

Now the color of images? I am by no means a professional and did not have a chance to hook up the spyder (color tool ) or anything like that..... But just from a quick comparison of the two monitors with identical wallpapers, it looked AS good, if not better.. The extra brightness also looked good.

Very close, both are AWESOME panels.

 

[tekno82]

thanks, super informative. and glad to see another steelers fan. this year is gonna finally be it!

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: tekno82
thanks, super informative. and glad to see another steelers fan. this year is gonna finally be it!

Ya budddddy..

I would rather play the Jets than the Chargers but if we play our game, our way, i think we are the best.

Good luck with the screen.

 

[amol]

you can't adjust cinema display contrast, color temp, etc (everything except brightness) with a windows pc

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: bjc112
I have hooked it up to multiple HP machines and it works well.

Now I don't know if you are 100% set on the Apple, but the Dell 2005fp is worth a look.
I know Apple just dropped their prices, but considering you can get the 2005fp for as low as $500 it's worth a look.

Better contrast.
Better Brightness
Better response ( grey grey )
Rotates 90 degress
Height adjustable
Composite Video
S Video

CONS:

Not as aesthetically nice..
No metal frame.




The horror stories you may read on the 2005fp are true, but there are also a lot of postives on it as well.

I have hooked my 2005fp next to the Apple display and the consensus is, "as good" or "better"


Worth a shot my friend..



Here's some pics to munch on.

Dell 2005fp

Interesting observations regarding contrast, brightness, and response considering that the 2005FP and the 20" cinema display use the exact same panel

 

[amol]

Originally posted by: sparkyclarky

Originally posted by: bjc112
I have hooked it up to multiple HP machines and it works well.

Now I don't know if you are 100% set on the Apple, but the Dell 2005fp is worth a look.
I know Apple just dropped their prices, but considering you can get the 2005fp for as low as $500 it's worth a look.

Better contrast.
Better Brightness
Better response ( grey grey )
Rotates 90 degress
Height adjustable
Composite Video
S Video

CONS:

Not as aesthetically nice..
No metal frame.




The horror stories you may read on the 2005fp are true, but there are also a lot of postives on it as well.

I have hooked my 2005fp next to the Apple display and the consensus is, "as good" or "better"


Worth a shot my friend..



Here's some pics to munch on.

Dell 2005fp

Interesting observations regarding contrast, brightness, and response considering that the 2005FP and the 20" cinema display use the exact same panel

theres more to a monitor than the panel :roll:

 

[darkswordsman17]

I would personally choose the Dell unless aesthetics are very important (which the Apple is without question better looking), but at the expense of adjustability and slightly better specs.

Also, I've heard/read about the problems you described earlier. Apparently some people with ATi cards don't see the POST/BIOS screen with Apple's displays. Something about Apple wouldn't release the specifics of something to do with their DVI signal or something (I'm probably way off about the actual reason).

I myself just ordered a 2005FP last week when it was on sale for about $520. I got it because I have loved my 2001FP and kinda want a widescreen monitor for movie watching. I would choose the Dell because of its adjustability and price advantage.

You might wait a bit, as Dell is slated to come out with a 2405FP soon (February I've heard). I'm guessing it'll either use a panel similar to Apple's 23"er or an improved version of that in the Samsung 24" monitor. Either one should be good, and I'm guessing it'll have at least 16ms response time, 1920x1200 resolution, and maybe component inputs to go along with S-Video and composite. The last is notable merely for the fact that you'd be able to turn it into an HDTV.

Something to consider. If you game very much, your 9800 probably won't be able to push 1920x1200 resolution that the larger panels have.

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: Amol

Originally posted by: sparkyclarky

Originally posted by: bjc112
I have hooked it up to multiple HP machines and it works well.

Now I don't know if you are 100% set on the Apple, but the Dell 2005fp is worth a look.
I know Apple just dropped their prices, but considering you can get the 2005fp for as low as $500 it's worth a look.

Better contrast.
Better Brightness
Better response ( grey grey )
Rotates 90 degress
Height adjustable
Composite Video
S Video

CONS:

Not as aesthetically nice..
No metal frame.




The horror stories you may read on the 2005fp are true, but there are also a lot of postives on it as well.

I have hooked my 2005fp next to the Apple display and the consensus is, "as good" or "better"


Worth a shot my friend..



Here's some pics to munch on.

Dell 2005fp

Interesting observations regarding contrast, brightness, and response considering that the 2005FP and the 20" cinema display use the exact same panel

theres more to a monitor than the panel :roll:

If you'll notice what I said, I was not referencing the extras like s video and rotation. I was talking about things which are entirely panel based. He claims that the dell has better contrast, brightness, and response, which is simply not possible if it is the same panel as the apple. He must have read manufacturers specs which tend to vary a ton even if it is the same panel being used to make the LCD.

 

[DrRios]

Hi:

I have trouble with SLI and Apple CInema 23.

the Nvidia driver works different if you have a "analog connection - with the adapter" vs a DVI connection. Some tabs where turn "OFF" by Nvidia in the Nview DESKTOP MANAGER when you use the DVI connector and are not being supported until the release of the next set of drivers.

I have a Velocity Micro Raptor dual PCI-e with 6800 GT (2) and SLI "ON"

The machine will work fine if the monitor if I use an old dual monitor that has both DVI and "analog" connectors, even when connected to DVI.

If the monitor is pure digital, or one of the lattest model. The card will identify this and will use the Pure DVI driver subrutine. This has advance timming "off". As a result SLI only support high definition monitor at their native resolution (Apple Cine, HDTV -LCD, Plasma and some Viewsonic Monitors). Monitor with 1920x1200 or more. Changing to a lower resolution will turn the creen into garbaje. OUT OF SYNC.

Nvidia knows about this and have erase all connects in their SLI site. If you have a SLI and DVI monitor try turning SLI "OFF" in the driver (NVIDIA TAB) reboot and then try to turn it back "ON" you will not be able to. So be very careful. Then you will get the two monitor like is mentioned here. The only was to go back is using system restore.

Playing games in those pure digital monitors can not be done with actual driver for SLI, changing to a lower resolution (most games are 1024 or less) will result in a garbage screen. The ystem will work fine if SLI is turn "off" but the other card will be there for the ride.

The only solution is to use a LCD monitor with dual connectors (that has both connector "analog and digital" ) or a CRT

The idea of SLI was to run games at higher resolution but Nvidia put the system put before the drivers where ready.

NVIDIA has failed miserably with this release.....
Text

 

[carage]

I've got the older 25ms CinemaDisplayHD 23inch hooked to a PC via ADC/DVI adapter.
It generally works well, except that now I don't get to see my POST/BIOS screens anymore as well as having blank screens while running full-screen DOS programs under Windows.
I am using a BFG 6800GT OC right now, so the Blank POST/BIOS screen problem isn't limited to ATi hardware.
I never had this issue with either my previous Ti4600 or FX5950.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Originally posted by: DrRios
Hi:

I have trouble with SLI and Apple CInema 23.

the Nvidia driver works different if you have a "analog connection - with the adapter" vs a DVI connection. Some tabs where turn "OFF" by Nvidia in the Nview DESKTOP MANAGER when you use the DVI connector and are not being supported until the release of the next set of drivers.

I have a Velocity Micro Raptor dual PCI-e with 6800 GT (2) and SLI "ON"

The machine will work fine if the monitor if I use an old dual monitor that has both DVI and "analog" connectors, even when connected to DVI.

If the monitor is pure digital, or one of the lattest model. The card will identify this and will use the Pure DVI driver subrutine. This has advance timming "off". As a result SLI only support high definition monitor at their native resolution (Apple Cine, HDTV -LCD, Plasma and some Viewsonic Monitors). Monitor with 1920x1200 or more. Changing to a lower resolution will turn the creen into garbaje. OUT OF SYNC.

Nvidia knows about this and have erase all connects in their SLI site. If you have a SLI and DVI monitor try turning SLI "OFF" in the driver (NVIDIA TAB) reboot and then try to turn it back "ON" you will not be able to. So be very careful. Then you will get the two monitor like is mentioned here. The only was to go back is using system restore.

Playing games in those pure digital monitors can not be done with actual driver for SLI, changing to a lower resolution (most games are 1024 or less) will result in a garbage screen. The ystem will work fine if SLI is turn "off" but the other card will be there for the ride.

The only solution is to use a LCD monitor with dual connectors (that has both connector "analog and digital" ) or a CRT

The idea of SLI was to run games at higher resolution but Nvidia put the system put before the drivers where ready.

NVIDIA has failed miserably with this release.....
Text

So you're saying you can't run your monitor in anything but native without it looking like crap? This is actually true for a lot of LCDs that I know of. Although "crap" is rather subjective, so no telling if it means the same thing between most people.

You have a dual 6800GT SLI rig, but don't want to play your games at the native resolution of 1920x1200? This just doesn't make sense to me. I, personally, wouldn't want to run anything other than native resolution if I had a 23" Cinema Display.

No offense, but if you paid that much for a computer, and then you want to game at 1024x768, then you just wasted a ton of money. You could've gotten as good of framerates running dual 6600GTs or a single 6800 if thats wall you wanted. I haven't played a game that hasn't allowed for higher than 1024 resolution, so I really don't know what you mean. You'll have to tinker with most games to get them to run the right aspect ration and resolution that your monitor has, but once you do, there shouldn't be a problem.

 

[carage]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17

Originally posted by: DrRios
Hi:

I have trouble with SLI and Apple CInema 23.

the Nvidia driver works different if you have a "analog connection - with the adapter" vs a DVI connection. Some tabs where turn "OFF" by Nvidia in the Nview DESKTOP MANAGER when you use the DVI connector and are not being supported until the release of the next set of drivers.

I have a Velocity Micro Raptor dual PCI-e with 6800 GT (2) and SLI "ON"

The machine will work fine if the monitor if I use an old dual monitor that has both DVI and "analog" connectors, even when connected to DVI.

If the monitor is pure digital, or one of the lattest model. The card will identify this and will use the Pure DVI driver subrutine. This has advance timming "off". As a result SLI only support high definition monitor at their native resolution (Apple Cine, HDTV -LCD, Plasma and some Viewsonic Monitors). Monitor with 1920x1200 or more. Changing to a lower resolution will turn the creen into garbaje. OUT OF SYNC.

Nvidia knows about this and have erase all connects in their SLI site. If you have a SLI and DVI monitor try turning SLI "OFF" in the driver (NVIDIA TAB) reboot and then try to turn it back "ON" you will not be able to. So be very careful. Then you will get the two monitor like is mentioned here. The only was to go back is using system restore.

Playing games in those pure digital monitors can not be done with actual driver for SLI, changing to a lower resolution (most games are 1024 or less) will result in a garbage screen. The ystem will work fine if SLI is turn "off" but the other card will be there for the ride.

The only solution is to use a LCD monitor with dual connectors (that has both connector "analog and digital" ) or a CRT

The idea of SLI was to run games at higher resolution but Nvidia put the system put before the drivers where ready.

NVIDIA has failed miserably with this release.....
Text

So you're saying you can't run your monitor in anything but native without it looking like crap? This is actually true for a lot of LCDs that I know of. Although "crap" is rather subjective, so no telling if it means the same thing between most people.

You have a dual 6800GT SLI rig, but don't want to play your games at the native resolution of 1920x1200? This just doesn't make sense to me. I, personally, wouldn't want to run anything other than native resolution if I had a 23" Cinema Display.

No offense, but if you paid that much for a computer, and then you want to game at 1024x768, then you just wasted a ton of money. You could've gotten as good of framerates running dual 6600GTs or a single 6800 if thats wall you wanted. I haven't played a game that hasn't allowed for higher than 1024 resolution, so I really don't know what you mean. You'll have to tinker with most games to get them to run the right aspect ration and resolution that your monitor has, but once you do, there shouldn't be a problem.

Well, I rarely run my CinemaDisplayHD 23 in 1920x1200 when it comes to games, because a lot of the games don't support 1920x1200 anyway! As far as I know, Half Life 2 seems to be the only game that allows me to run it at 1920x1200. Most games don't have modes that go that high, and the strange thing I have noticed is that some games only give me the options to go as high as 1280x1024 (Generals & NBA Live 2005, for instance.)
I would agree crap is a really subjective term, however I would never consider what I saw as crap.
So I am actually leaning more toward the problem is caused by SLI rather than the monitor.
As far as I am concerned, forgot where I read it, Apple/LG/Phillips display actually have much better scaling functions compared to alot of LCDs. I guess this is an attribute of the Super-IPS panel, whether its 16ms or 25ms they both got it.

 

[carage]

Just wondering if there is anyone who managed to get the 30inch behemoth connected to a PC?

 

[ramuman]

I also have a 20" new Cinema Display on my 6800GT. I can see POST etc. fine. Only thing is options such as scale, strectch, etc. are done in the Forceware drivers. All the functionality is there, so as long as you're using those drivers, you're fine. The display by detault stretches non-native resolutions to fit and doesn't have controls (or even a menu, only pwoer and brightness) - so your until you start Windows, you're only option is to have the display streched. I came from a Dell 2005, and the build quality and lighting blows it away.

 

[tekno82]

hey all, as an update, got the 20" display, works great and unlike many other people's accounts i read, i can see POST and everything else fine connected to my radeon 9800 pro's dvi out. definitely need some software add-ons to your drivers though to make sure you scale resolutions properly (like ramuman says). works flawlessly though on my setup. very pleased.

 

[batmanuel]

Originally posted by: carage
Just wondering if there is anyone who managed to get the 30inch behemoth connected to a PC?

This person has. Even got a POST screen, too.

 

[carage]

Originally posted by: batmanuel

Originally posted by: carage
Just wondering if there is anyone who managed to get the 30inch behemoth connected to a PC?

This person has. Even got a POST screen, too.

Thanks for sharing. I guess I should specify as I already knew ppl who got it working with a PC.
What I was really looking forward with a cost effective video card solution without sacrificing gaming performance.
The 30inch requires a DDL DVI connector that mostly exist on workstation cards only.
His Quadro 4000 probably costs $1000 alone but it still won't beat a regular 6800 GT in Direct3D.