Apparently there will be a new upgraded Xbox 360 in 2010

parallaxscroll

Junior Member
Jun 13, 2009
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Rumor: Xbox Natal is Actually Microsoft's Next Console

So you know how Microsoft is saying Natal will be as big as console launch? Well...yeah.
By Sam Kennedy, 06/12/2009

Earlier this week gaming blog Kotaku quoted Microsoft's Shane Kim as saying that the launch of Natal, Microsoft's new controller-free motion control technology, would be as big as the launch of a console. Not surprising. That's because Natal is going to be a new console.

On this week's Listen Up podcast we discussed Natal, and David Ellis and I talked about what we've been hearing regarding the new technology -- and how it's actually the cornerstone of Microsoft's next evolution of the Xbox. Microsoft will not only release Natal as an add-on for the Xbox 360, it will come standard with the next Xbox console.

Yes, there will be a new Xbox console next fall.

However, the new console won't just be an Xbox 360 with a camera, though -- we've heard it will be considered a new platform and carry a new name (Xbox Natal?). It's not clear what sort of upgrades we might see, but some have suggested it will be an slight upgrade of the current Xbox 360 technology. Current Xbox 360 games would be playable on it, but future games would be able to take advantage of the added muscle. Similar to what we see in the PC space, games played on the more advanced Xbox would look or perform better, but publishers will still be able to support owners of both systems. Some developers have complained that they've already maxed out the Xbox 360; perhaps this will give them room to expand.

Make no mistake, we wouldn't be talking about the sort of hardware leap we've seen with Xbox (or most other) platforms in the past, and we're not talking about Microsoft ending one console cycle and starting another. We're talking about an evolution of the Xbox 360; similar hardware but upgraded, repackaged, and rebranded. It's actually not that unlike what Nintendo did with the Wii, where it essentially took the GameCube hardware, stuck in motion controls, and successfully relaunched it. The new Xbox console is said to be aimed directly at a mainstream audience -- and will launch before Nintendo is able to release its Wii HD.

What's interesting is that Nintendo and Microsoft are on a course to deliver very similar products yet are coming at them from opposite directions. Microsoft currently has the HD hardware and will in the future introduce motion controls, while Nintendo has motion controls and will in the future introduce HD hardware. Sony's PS3 will also be providing motion controls next year, though as a peripheral for its EyeToy camera.
As John Davison pointed out on the podcast, the Wii was the first console to do this, but it's likely that all future hardware will be more iterative than substantive. The distinction between new consoles will become far less marked -- similar to what we've seen in the handheld space, such as with the transitions from the Game Boy to the Game Boy Advance, the DS to the DSi, or the PSP to the PSP Go.

So when would we first hear about this new Xbox console? Our sources point to next year's Game Developer's Conference as the target for its unveiling and Fall 2010 as the target for release.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3174762


Now take this next report with a Mt Everest sized mountain of salt:


WORLD EXCLUSIVE FIRST DETAILS ON MICROSOFT'S NEXT XBOX

06/13/09 1UP recently posted a new article revealing details on Microsoft's plans for their next XBox, we can officially confirm the information found in that particular report was indeed correct. However today FGNOnline would like to reveal Microsoft's planned specifications of their new unit.

As mentioned in the 1UP piece the system shall indeed integrate the motion sensing technology Natal into the actual device, however our separate sources can now reveal the modest upgrade made to the actual architecture of the new system.

GPU

Whereas the original XBox 360 used a Shader Model 3 GPU with on-board 10MB eDRAM for 720p acceleration, the new XBox has a Shader Model 5 capable GPU with 32MB of eDRAM for 1080p output. The GPU again is designed by AMD and runs at a clock rate of 600MHz.

CPU

The IBM developed CPU shall have 6 cores instead of the 3 found in the original model.
Each single core shall have the same processing throughput as each single core from the XCPU. Meaning the chip is literally 200% as strong and shall now be on equal footing with the PS3 CELL CPU in GFLOPS performance.

MEMORY

The main system RAM has been upgraded from 512MB to 1024MB, and from GDDR3 to GDDR5.
The system retains a Unified Memory Architecture.

OTHER

The platform integrates a 2.5" 32GB SSD (Solid State Drive) instead of a HDD (Hard Disk Drive) as found in the original models. The system also uses a standard DVD drive foregoing Blu-ray thus ensuring backwards and forwards compatibility whilst simultaneously keeping the bill of materials low. Internet connectivity is provided via WiFi.

RELEASE & PRICING

Microsoft plans on a Q4 2010 simultaneous worldwide release. The company is targeting a sub $300 price point.


http://fgnonline.webs.com/
 

I4AT

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2006
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Wow, I have absolutely no interest in their motion control BS or I'd own a Wii already, but those are some pretty damn significant hardware upgrades. I'll believe the sub $300 price when I see it though. Sticking with DVD is a bit interesting, we're already hitting the DVD9 ceiling with multi disc games, and adding all that extra power can only make the games that take advantage of it bigger. I think they should resurrect HD DVD, just because it lost the HD movie format war doesn't mean it can't still be used as a Natal 360 exclusive tech, and the R&D for it has already been done.

But then again most devs will probably stick with the vanilla 360, and we'll likely see one or two tech demos passed off as games for the 360 on roids. I remember how much of a fuss developers put up when they found out there would be 360's with and without hard drives, this is really gonna piss them off.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
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Who knows?

1up said last year that the 360 would be getting blu-ray by September 2008 so their track record isn't great compared to the ArsTechnica "mole."
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
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I'm betting more that they will come out with the current console on the Valhalla chipset (CPU & GPU on a single 45nm die) with the Natal camera packed in for $200 when Natal is released in 2010.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
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Originally posted by: Queasy
I'm betting more that they will come out with the current console on the Valhalla chipset (CPU & GPU on a single 45nm die) with the Natal camera packed in for $200 when Natal is released in 2010.

Makes sense. The Arcade $199 pricing gave the 360 a big boost in sales so introducing their "wii killer" 360 at that price using cost-reduced hardware sounds like a better strategy than creating a new casual gaming console with advanced hardware at Elite prices.
 

parallaxscroll

Junior Member
Jun 13, 2009
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I really like the thought of more of that high-bandwidth 256 GB/sec eDRAM.

Going from 10 MB to 32 MB should allow for an entire 720p frame (if not a 1080p frame) with 4x AA to sit in there, without having to be tiled or whatever. I would imagine, anyway.

Now, I recall reading somewhere (forget where) years ago that the 10 MB eDRAM was originally supposed to be enough for 480p with 4x AA, not HD resolutions such as 720p (which most 360 games use) before 360 was targeted toward being an HD console.

 

Sheep

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2006
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<--Looks at the source of OP's text and ignores it.

The 1up link might be legit but the FGNONline link is pulling specs out of their asses, attributed to their "sources".
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
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I am glad they can get with the times and have Wifi on it. There really is no reason not to, when they are the leaders in online gaming for the consoles. I mean, the $250 Wii has it, and its far from being thought of as an online console. That, and fix the RRoD problem, but maybe thats asking too much. I would also like to see a bluray player. They're a lot cheaper now, and will be even more so in 18 months when this is due out. Probably dont want to because its a "Sony" thing, even though a lot of customers would want it.

This could create a rift from current 360 owners. Feel like they're getting milked. Already had to buy a new console for HDMI, and now for better looking games? Id like to see a side by side comparison of the games. How are they going to be sold, two different packages for whichever 360 you have, or the same DVD. Could cause some confusion.

I disagree that its like the Gamecube to the Wii. The Wii is better all around, in every aspect. Its a new console. The new 360 is the same thing, with a graphical upgrade.

Still far too off to get all excited, or upset about this. Need cold hard fact, and comparisons.
 

Rage187

Lifer
Dec 30, 2000
14,276
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Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: Rage187
Sign me up if it is under $300.

Yea right..........$500 I'd say.

why would it be more expensive? cheaper die and smaller form factor=cheaper price. The natal camera is nothing more than a suped up webcam with a microphone. If anything they may pull a Sony and remove the optical drive.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
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Originally posted by: Rage187
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: Rage187
Sign me up if it is under $300.

Yea right..........$500 I'd say.

why would it be more expensive? cheaper die and smaller form factor=cheaper price. The natal camera is nothing more than a suped up webcam with a microphone. If anything they may pull a Sony and remove the optical drive.

It's not the same processor/video or anything. If it was just a die shrink/smaller version of the existing then yes I could see it being cheaper but it's not and it's adding a supposed revolutionary motion sensing camera system. No way it's going to be cheap. It'll be at least $400 but I wouldn't doubt if it was more.
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
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Have any reports of RROD been made on the new Jasper model 360? There's a good reason to believe it will significantly reduce and possibly eliminate the RROD failures that the 360 had.

Microsoft always releases an absurdly expensive to produce console and sells it at a loss. They can afford to. Sony has proved that selling a home console for $500-$600 = failure. I seriously doubt Microsoft has any plans at all of trying to do that; they're not stupid.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
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Originally posted by: dguy6789

Microsoft always releases an absurdly expensive to produce console and sells it at a loss. They can afford to.

Umm what console hasn't been sold for a loss in the first few years of it's run???
 

I4AT

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2006
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Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: dguy6789

Microsoft always releases an absurdly expensive to produce console and sells it at a loss. They can afford to.

Umm what console hasn't been sold for a loss in the first few years of it's run???

The Wii. And it's STILL priced at $250, I'm amazed the average consumer hasn't caught on yet and realized the Wii is long overdue for a price drop.
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
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Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: dguy6789

Microsoft always releases an absurdly expensive to produce console and sells it at a loss. They can afford to.

Umm what console hasn't been sold for a loss in the first few years of it's run???

Every single one except the PS3, Xbox, and Xbox 360? I might be missing one or two, but most consoles aren't sold for a loss.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
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Originally posted by: dguy6789
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: dguy6789

Microsoft always releases an absurdly expensive to produce console and sells it at a loss. They can afford to.

Umm what console hasn't been sold for a loss in the first few years of it's run???

Every single one except the PS3, Xbox, and Xbox 360? I might be missing one or two, but most consoles aren't sold for a loss.

??? Practically every major console has been sold for a loss until the processing costs catch up. It's nothing new to this generation.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,739
452
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Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: dguy6789
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: dguy6789

Microsoft always releases an absurdly expensive to produce console and sells it at a loss. They can afford to.

Umm what console hasn't been sold for a loss in the first few years of it's run???

Every single one except the PS3, Xbox, and Xbox 360? I might be missing one or two, but most consoles aren't sold for a loss.

??? Practically every major console has been sold for a loss until the processing costs catch up. It's nothing new to this generation.

Yup, the bleeding edge consoles have always sold for a loss initially. The PS2 and xbox was no different. Not sure about the gamecube.
 

RagingBITCH

Lifer
Sep 27, 2003
17,618
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Originally posted by: dguy6789
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: dguy6789

Microsoft always releases an absurdly expensive to produce console and sells it at a loss. They can afford to.

Umm what console hasn't been sold for a loss in the first few years of it's run???

Every single one except the PS3, Xbox, and Xbox 360? I might be missing one or two, but most consoles aren't sold for a loss.

You know nothing about selling consoles do you? They've all been sold at a loss at launch...cost is driven down by experience and the lower cost of the goods used to make it through time, therefore making it profitable or close to at some point. The money maker is driven by peripherals and software licensing fees.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
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Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Originally posted by: dguy6789
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: dguy6789

Microsoft always releases an absurdly expensive to produce console and sells it at a loss. They can afford to.

Umm what console hasn't been sold for a loss in the first few years of it's run???

Every single one except the PS3, Xbox, and Xbox 360? I might be missing one or two, but most consoles aren't sold for a loss.

You know nothing about selling consoles do you? They've all been sold at a loss at launch...cost is driven down by experience and the lower cost of the goods used to make it through time, therefore making it profitable or close to at some point. The money maker is driven by peripherals and software licensing fees.

Pretty sure dguy6789 is right. Nintendo has never sold its consoles for a loss. I doubt Sega or Atari did either. I think the Playstation/PS2 did sell for a loss initially.
 

randomlinh

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,846
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linh.wordpress.com
Originally posted by: gorcorps
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: dguy6789
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: dguy6789

Microsoft always releases an absurdly expensive to produce console and sells it at a loss. They can afford to.

Umm what console hasn't been sold for a loss in the first few years of it's run???

Every single one except the PS3, Xbox, and Xbox 360? I might be missing one or two, but most consoles aren't sold for a loss.

??? Practically every major console has been sold for a loss until the processing costs catch up. It's nothing new to this generation.

Yup, the bleeding edge consoles have always sold for a loss initially. The PS2 and xbox was no different. Not sure about the gamecube.

wasn't nintendo's only loss leader the SNES or something? Nintendo never did to well in numbers, but they were always pretty much pure profit on each thing sold (note, profit != success)
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Originally posted by: dguy6789
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: dguy6789

Microsoft always releases an absurdly expensive to produce console and sells it at a loss. They can afford to.

Umm what console hasn't been sold for a loss in the first few years of it's run???

Every single one except the PS3, Xbox, and Xbox 360? I might be missing one or two, but most consoles aren't sold for a loss.

You know nothing about selling consoles do you? They've all been sold at a loss at launch...cost is driven down by experience and the lower cost of the goods used to make it through time, therefore making it profitable or close to at some point. The money maker is driven by peripherals and software licensing fees.

Pretty sure dguy6789 is right. Nintendo has never sold its consoles for a loss. I doubt Sega or Atari did either. I think the Playstation/PS2 did sell for a loss initially.

Dreamcast, Saturn, Genesis, Nintendo 64, I could go on, cost more to manufacture than it sold as. Wii is different since it's just a modified Gamecube but they know it sells at a loss and make it back with lisencing fees and such like RagingBITCH said.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Originally posted by: dguy6789
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: dguy6789

Microsoft always releases an absurdly expensive to produce console and sells it at a loss. They can afford to.

Umm what console hasn't been sold for a loss in the first few years of it's run???

Every single one except the PS3, Xbox, and Xbox 360? I might be missing one or two, but most consoles aren't sold for a loss.

You know nothing about selling consoles do you? They've all been sold at a loss at launch...cost is driven down by experience and the lower cost of the goods used to make it through time, therefore making it profitable or close to at some point. The money maker is driven by peripherals and software licensing fees.

Pretty sure dguy6789 is right. Nintendo has never sold its consoles for a loss. I doubt Sega or Atari did either. I think the Playstation/PS2 did sell for a loss initially.

Dreamcast, Saturn, Genesis, Nintendo 64, I could go on, cost more to manufacture than it sold as. Wii is different since it's just a modified Gamecube but they know it sells at a loss and make it back with lisencing fees and such like RagingBITCH said.

Do you have any proof? I'm pretty sure Nintendo even said around the time of the Wii's launch that they've never sold a console for a loss.