Apparently Meat Is Good For Mental Health

[BarkingGhostar]

Read.

 

[Mai72]

Hmm.. I work with a vegan. He's not going to like this study.

 

[lxskllr]

That way you'll be in a good mood when the doctor tells you you have asshole cancer :^P

 

[Captante]

 

[Torn Mind]

Vegans are intellectually duplicitous little fucks who cherry pick shit and will false represent causes of ills through the exploitation of variable ambiguity(aka confounding variables and causes). Ethically, they have some grounds, but misunderstand it in a manner only a dweller living in area with codes against keeping livestock can do. Furthermore, city dwellers are insulated and sanitized from vets killing dogs and cats by mere words of "put down" and "put to sleep"

The ancients probably were onto something by distinguishing fish from land meat as well... both may be slabs of protein, but there are differences in micronutrients present.

(Staring right at Dr. Michael Greger)

Actually, it's kind of simple-minded to elevate foods solely due to the fact they use photosynthesis to build their shit that gets consumed. No regard to the chemistry or actual effects.

Another pet peeve is the enmorous use of ambiguity in debates. Like "plant-based" can mean various things. Substantial proportion, 50/50, Majority, and full-on vegan all can be plant based, but the little vegan shits use plant-based precisely as code for veganism.

The other is carbs. Because the general populace is descended from or are the same folks who reject a one-third pound burger for a quarter pounder, they naturally don't get the chemistry and digestion of "carbs". Carbs are chemical with carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen. They get cleaved by enyzmes into glucose. Complex carbs are not very digestible because we don't fucking have the enzymes. One of the dumbest false wars on the internet is vegan vs keto. When ketoers say low carb, it is primarily in refernce to enzyme-digestible carbs. But the vegan brings up fucking beans and greens to defend sugar, grains, and shit.

Nutrition is a trashy, infantile science on a level low on the fucking totem pole of credible. Lower than economics, because at least heads roll when economists fuck things up. Devilish nutritionists and scientists, get sanctified as saints while fucking killing people to pad Big Pharma's pockets.

 

[MrSquished]

Vegans are intellectually duplicitous little fucks who cherry pick shit and will false represent causes of ills through the exploitation of variable ambiguity(aka confounding variables and causes). Ethically, they have some grounds, but misunderstand it in a manner only a dweller living in area with codes against keeping livestock can do. Furthermore, city dwellers are insulated and sanitized from vets killing dogs and cats by mere words of "put down" and "put to sleep"

The ancients probably were onto something by distinguishing fish from land meat as well... both may be slabs of protein, but there are differences in micronutrients present.

(Staring right at Dr. Michael Greger)

Actually, it's kind of simple-minded to elevate foods solely due to the fact they use photosynthesis to build their shit that gets consumed. No regard to the chemistry or actual effects.

Another pet peeve is the enmorous use of ambiguity in debates. Like "plant-based" can mean various things. Substantial proportion, 50/50, Majority, and full-on vegan all can be plant based, but the little vegan shits use plant-based precisely as code for veganism.

The other is carbs. Because the general populace is descended from or are the same folks who reject a one-third pound burger for a quarter pounder, they naturally don't get the chemistry and digestion of "carbs". Carbs are chemical with carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen. They get cleaved by enyzmes into glucose. Complex carbs are not very digestible because we don't fucking have the enzymes. One of the dumbest false wars on the internet is vegan vs keto. When ketoers say low carb, it is primarily in refernce to enzyme-digestible carbs. But the vegan brings up fucking beans and greens to defend sugar, grains, and shit.

Nutrition is a trashy, infantile science on a level low on the fucking totem pole of credible. Lower than economics, because at least heads roll when economists fuck things up. Devilish nutritionists and scientists, get sanctified as saints while fucking killing people to pad Big Pharma's pockets.

I am a city dweller and I was in the room when the vet put down two of my cats. I had no illusions of what was happening, it was death dealing, but of necessity and mercy. What is your point?

 

[snoopy7548]

I am a city dweller and I was in the room when the vet put down two of my cats. I had no illusions of what was happening, it was death dealing, but of necessity and mercy. What is your point?

Ya gosh durn city folk and yer new age hippie sensitivity training! That's what yer problem is! Yeehaw!

 

[Naer]

fat is food for brain

 

[Torn Mind]

I am a city dweller and I was in the room when the vet put down two of my cats. I had no illusions of what was happening, it was death dealing, but of necessity and mercy. What is your point?

My focus was more on the laws preventing ownership of animals typically eaten making the population suggestible to believing kill no animal is somehow a axiom worth following.

My mother grew up in Shanghai with relative wealth before the Commies went nuclear in the Cultural Revolution. They owned chickens in Shanghai but the law was passed banning ownership. So mom and the family had to kill them and the family obviously ate what were once pets; mom was in tears and had last pictures with them. There was a coop for the 14 or so chickens they had to kill to comply with the law. She claims to know how to get them to do things and the proper slaying technique, but there's never been a live chicken to execute on during her time in the States. .

One time she came across a craigslist free ad for a rooster and wanted one.

 

[pmv]

By "an association" are they saying it's causation or just correlation?

I can easily imagine that there could be the latter without necessarily involving the former. Pick any non-mainstream behaviour or belief system and you'll probably find a correlation with mental health issues.

I wonder if the finding would still hold true in cultures or societies where eating meat was a minority trait?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I mean, your brain needs fats to process properly, as it does with other macro/micronutrients, so yes. Brain needs meat. It also needs b12, which only comes from meat of ruminant animals or supplements. I'd wager at least half of vegans don't take b12.

 

[Stiff Clamp]

Brain needs protein more than carbs to fuel itself. Or so my neurologist tells me. I've personally noticed some brain impact from good quantities of nuts, but not meat. Never expected any effects from meat though. Guess I need to pay closer attention.

THere's a variety of specially-formulated fatty acid supplements you can take that are designed to impact the brain (nootropics), even penetrate the blood/brain barrier - usually forms of choline or serine. e.g. phosphatidyl-serine, choline, serine, AlphaGPC, citicoline. Some are plant-sourced though.

 

[Torn Mind]

Could be zinc deficiency. More concrete research needed but worth exploring.

The Emerging Role for Zinc in Depression and Psychosis - PMC

Zinc participation is essential for all physiological systems, including neural functioning, where it participates in a myriad of cellular processes. Converging clinical, molecular, and genetic discoveries illuminate key roles for zinc homeostasis ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Zorba]

By "an association" are they saying it's causation or just correlation?

I can easily imagine that there could be the latter without necessarily involving the former. Pick any non-mainstream behaviour or belief system and you'll probably find a correlation with mental health issues.

I wonder if the finding would still hold true in cultures or societies where eating meat was a minority trait?

Meta studies review other published studies, sort of a "survey of the current science." As such, they are basically always correlation. The big benefit of them comes from being able to combine a bunch of small and/or low quality studies together to get a more statistically significant result.

A lot of meta studies are also low quality, and done by grad students that can't do independent research. Some of them are great though.

 

[pmv]

Meta studies review other published studies, sort of a "survey of the current science." As such, they are basically always correlation. The big benefit of them comes from being able to combine a bunch of small and/or low quality studies together to get a more statistically significant result.

A lot of meta studies are also low quality, and done by grad students that can't do independent research. Some of them are great though.

Well, my point is that posters here seem to be speculating about possible things that might explain _causal_ relationships, but it seems a leap to assume that's the case at all. I see no reason to take this as demonstrating that vegetarianism _causes_ mental health problems, rather it seems that people who adopt a non-mainstream, slightly eccentric, practice like vegetarianism in a society were meat-eating is the norm, are disproportionately likely to be eccentric or odd in other ways as well, possibly to the point of being considered mentally ill.

I don't know how common meat-eating is now in Hindu India or other countries where it's religiously frowned upon, but it could be that in societies like that you'd find the opposite assocation - that it's the freaky outlier, social-norm-busting, meat-eaters who are more likely to have mental health problems.

 

[Muse]

I've heard of quite a few vegetarians who are horror stories. First that comes to mind is Adolph Hitler.

 

[ultimatebob]

A nice thick juicy steak makes me happy, anyway.

Eating it in front of a vegan who's giving me nasty looks would only be a bonus in my book!

 

[sdifox]

I only eat vegetarian animals

 

[Torn Mind]

Vegetarianism can be a decent diet because dairy can be beneficial if its better made cheese and pasture-raised eggs that get eaten. It can approximate the vintage agriculturally based diet. Milk is somewhat overadvertised as good but its solid fermented derivative is good stuff.

Veganism is only a manifestation of an industrialized society and can only be sustained with the infrastructure of modern chemical processing.

One of the unwritten caveats is that supplementation is necessary to be a vegan. Only problem is that many go vegan fall into the trap of the naturalistic fallacy, so they wind up not supplementing. If some twat starts talking about "natural fruit sugar", you can expect a vegan is saying that. D3 can be synthesized from lichens, which is certainly not edible or obtainable without the processing.

Faux meats are a laugh every time I see them. It only shows how incompetent new vegans are a processing vegetables into delectable delicacies using fermentation, brine, and all the useful traditional methods for their intended new life. Bitches read up on the China study but never grasped that Guizhou food is fucking spicy and salty; almost racist scientific myopia at work.
The Impossible Burger uses soy heme. I thought vegans would be damn scared of that chemical; it might be better than a McDonalds burger, but that like comparing the beauty of two ugly people.

Never mind that's tough on low income people because supplements are not covered under EBT. People's are not made of gold here; so these people have to eat "fortified foods", which are usually sugar bombs.

 

[Muse]

Vegetarianism can be a decent diet because dairy can be beneficial if its better made cheese and pasture-raised eggs that get eaten. It can approximate the vintage agriculturally based diet. Milk is somewhat overadvertised as good but its solid fermented derivative is good stuff.

I get a LOT of my protein from non-fat dry milk powder. I reconstitute it and put in my coffee (without sugar), I add to my baking, use it various other ways. I've looked it up a few times, I'm not aware of deleterious effects. Of course, non-fat, and I presume as nutritious as the stuff that comes in gallon jugs from the supermarkets. I got in the habit when I didn't have a car. Lugging home jugs is tough on a bicycle. Some don't like the flavor, but I seldom drink milk plain but even if I do (which is always with something else) I don't mind the flavor at all. I'm quite used to it. High protein, CA, some added vitamins, I believe, all at a modest cost. I order online. Used to get at Costco but they don't stock it anymore.

.

 

[Muse]

I eat cheeses, keep several types onhand always, used to try to refrain from eating a lot because of cholesterol concerns, but eat more lately. I think my lifestyle allows me to not be too concerned about the fat and cholesterol in cheeses. NFDM, however, has no such concerns I'm aware of. I know of no reason to be reticent about NFDM consumption.

Now, most meats have concerns. Beef, there's cholesterol, the price hikes, the damage to the environment from methane, etc. Fish, there's the food chain concerns about contamination to sort out plus the inconvenience of ascertaining it, handling it, service concerns, bones, what have you. I have a chicken in the freezer but I got tired of a chicken every two weeks a month or two ago. I'll open a can of tuna maybe 3 times a year and make 2 sandwiches over a couple days.

Pork is relatively cheap. There are concerns about treatment of the animals, which is true of chicken and beef, of course. Also, pigs are relatively intelligent and there is a concern there. I heard it said that pork is similar to what you might expect if you were a cannibal! I like it, but don't overdo it. I make my own pork sausage, don't eat a lot of it. Also buy commercial sausage, likewise don't eat a lot. In general I don't eat a lot of meat. I've never been vegetarian, but there are many days I eat no meat at all. Not by intention, it just happens that way a lot. I only realize it when I think back on what I've eaten.

 

[Torn Mind]

I get a LOT of my protein from non-fat dry milk powder. I reconstitute it and put in my coffee (without sugar), I add to my baking, use it various other ways. I've looked it up a few times, I'm not aware of deleterious effects. Of course, non-fat, and I presume as nutritious as the stuff that comes in gallon jugs from the supermarkets. I got in the habit when I didn't have a car. Lugging home jugs is tough on a bicycle. Some don't like the flavor, but I seldom drink milk plain but even if I do (which is always with something else) I don't mind the flavor at all. I'm quite used to it. High protein, CA, some added vitamins, I believe, all at a modest cost. I order online. Used to get at Costco but they don't stock it anymore.

I do eat cheeses, keep several types on hand always, used to try to refrain from eating a lot because of cholesterol concerns, but eat more lately. I think my lifestyle allows me to not be too concerned about the fat and cholesterol in cheeses. NFDM, however, has no such concerns I'm aware of. I know of no reason to be reticent about NFDM consumption.

As far as my personal preference goes, low fat milk is not even edible to me; it tastes weak..
I can only drink whole milk and even don't like it that much. I actually can guzzle down almond "milk" like a maniac(drank 32 oz yesterday and today), but I doubt it's as good nutrition-wise as whole milk. They put D2 instead of D3 in almond milk as well; some D is better than none, but D2 doesn't seem to be effective as D3.

Some people try to argue cow's milk is "addicting"; I'm not one of the vulnerable ones in that case. I have never ever "craved" milk.

One of the more interesting bits of research is that stearic acid actually makes the mitochondria fuse and become more efficient in burning fat. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-05614-6

Why Stearic Acid is One of the Most Important Fats For Metabolic Health

Stearic acid may be a fat loss star

medium.com

So, low sugar chocolate(which might taste nasty), some tallow or lard in a recipe may be acceptable to eat as long as simple carbs, which insulin-stimulants, are not also consumed with them at the same time.

Cholesterol seems to be a tightly regulated substance in the body, and thus the presence of exogenous cholesterol triggers a reduction in endogenous production. In my view, it's the lipid equivalent of water in the body.
This is a meta analysis on cholesterol and eggs. They really couldn't verify the link between the cholesterol in eggs and increased CVD risk. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6024687/

I was able to maintain at least some vitamin D in my bloodstream with just sardines(mostly King Oscar obtained on clearance for $1.94 at Safeway) and 2 eggs, more less. I tested for 27 ng/mL on Dec 19, 2021, which is low, but given my limited diet for a while after Dec 1, it's actually not bad. I had two wisdom teeth removed, so I was stuck eating cream cheese and watery steamed egg custard(it's a simple salty Chinese recipe) for a couple weeks. The eggs was Sauder's pasture-raised eggs, obtained on clearance earlier this fall for about 4.30 or something.

I have now caved after the test results and started eating some cans of Rubinstein's Wild caught red salmon as an intervention. The D3 levels are insane(29 mcg in a 85g serving) and I consider the entire package of the other minerals and vitamins particularly useful. I don't really like eating it much. For the first day, I ate a whole can, but every day since, I stop eating the salmon at half a can(about 7 oz). It kind of gives me some hangover or something, which is why I never liked eating it in the past.

It's very important about what specific fishes are eaten. Fatty, oily fish that are nutrient dense are good to eat. I tried out sardines as a sort of a shot in the dark, after watching a random Thomas DeLauer video about good fish to eat(don't like him that much, more influencer than substance, and sometimes makes factual errors when the concepts are above his level of comprehension). So I tried a can of Wild Planet sardines(I think in extra virgin olive oil), and whatever was keeping me in a state of brain fog clear the next day. I did get COVID in Feb 2021 and it left me not quite sharp mentally. I can be pretty sure it wasn't protein(ate a lot of red meat for a while because I hadn't done any research but needed to avoid sugar), lack of carbs, lack of vitamin D(I was drinking some milk), lack of vitamin C(I had started eating from for a while before trying out sardines). I'm left guessing if it was the omega-3s, the iodine(hadn't eaten any salt for about 7 months), or something else in the sardines that cleared the brain fog. Or maybe it was the EVOO.

I also don't like tuna that much and there have been enough cases of mercury toxicity stories to still not eat it.

One thing about cutting the simple carbs is that I do not experience the subtle tingling in the fingers, which apparently is indicative of neuropathy. Another is that waking up, even sleep deprived, is not such a rough experience.

I also have tried incorporating liver intermittently as the constant eating of meat and fat leaves me full all the time and thus I don't feel like eating much.

My teeth are still at war so I seek foods that help bone health and limit exacerbating periodontitis. That is not to say I haven't eaten any junk sweets. My mom keeps bringing them into the house even though she cannot metabolize things well and has suspicious symptoms indicative of prediabetes. So I carefully eat the pies, bread, etc because I am in a much better place metabolically than she is. Even without the unwanted sweets and starches, I'm still a sweets addict, so I have consistently eaten lower carb fruits(good for the special chemicals and vitamin C) and/or peanut butter.

Not much incentive to buy beef for myself either, since my mom is an utter bovine product hater. She doesn't like milk, or most beef meats. Doesn't mean she can't cook oxtail soup, but she has stated she much prefers pork.