Appalled with Vista

[tribbles]

I tend to be pretty open-minded when it comes to someone's choice of operating system. And I should be, considering that I use Linux, Windows XP x64 and Mac OS X all on a daily basis.

I still do some computer consulting on the side, so yesterday I went to a client's office to set up a new Dell for his shop manager. It was an Athlon X2 3800 with 1 GB of RAM and onboard nVidia graphics. The box said it came with Windows Vista Basic. I thought that this would be interesting, since I haven't used Vista hands-on yet.

I was a little surprised when the first thing that happened upon bootup was an "evaluation of your computer's performance" that lasted between five and ten minutes. Okay, whatever. I figured this would be a one-time thing, so no big deal.

Things became a little more frustrating when the system "finished" booting to the desktop, and I say "finished" because my mouse was locked for a couple of minutes. The hard drive was chattering away, and even though there was the appearance of everything being ready to go, I was stuck. Clicking the mouse did nothing. For a long time. Then the chattering died down, I was able to look around, affirmed that Microsoft Office 2007 had already been installed, and ran Windows Update.

The updates (there were three of them) downloaded pretty fast. The only problem was when the computer said it needed to restart. I told it to restart, and the OS went to the shutdown screen. Where it stayed for about ten minutes. I am not exaggerating. An employee happened to walk by me and see that I was waiting on the computer. Several minutes later he came back, saw that I was on the same "shutting down" screen, and joked that he was going to tell his boss that I had figured out a way to run up my billing (which he knew was hourly). Finally, after the computer had hypnotized me with that blasted busy cursor, it restarted.

Get back to the desktop. Guess what? Windows Vista informs me that there is a driver conflict. And not just one, but two of them! For this reason, Windows Vista tells me, Windows Sidebar is going to have to be turned off. Imagine that. Microsoft's own software update killed Windows Sidebar. As an added bonus, the audio isn't working anymore either. At this point, I start to realize that the one hour installation and setup I had expected is going to take a good deal longer.

Fast forward two hours. I still haven't resolved the conflict with Windows Sidebar. Audio still isn't working. And...this...computer...crawls. Doesn't matter that there is no Aero in this version of Windows Vista. The computer feels almost just like the Pentium 3 that it replaced.

What I've mentioned above is merely a summary. There were a few other ordeals too. Of course, since the computer was a Dell, I had to uninstall a ton of crap that wasn't needed. Unfortunately, this did not result in the desired increase in responsiveness. Today I got a call from the general manager of the place. She was wondering if her shop manager's computer was really new, and if so, why was it so damned slow? And why would Internet Explorer 7 refuse to download the Excel files that they had no problems accessing on the old computer (it works fine in Firefox)? And why was Windows Sidebar not working (answer: because I had to go home sometime, didn't I?)? And did that matter?

At this point, it looks like the computer is going to get a clean install of XP. The shop manager called me today (a little irritating, since I don't do this kind of support for a living anymore) and said she was completely lost in the new Microsoft Outlook.

All this to say: I'm rather appalled at Windows Vista. I was certainly expecting something more. After all, I've always been pretty happy with XP. I dual-boot it on my Mac Pro at home and use the 64-bit edition all the time at work. Truth is, right now, Vista feels broken.

The problem as I see it is this: I'm used to building my own PCs, using OEM versions of Windows, so granted, I'm probably just not used to all the crap that Dell pre-installs on its machines. And all that pre-installed crap might be part of the problem. But that's really no excuse, because for the average user, what I experienced yesterday will be the norm for them. And I think that's just unacceptable for the average consumer to pay $800 for a home/small office computer and immediately experience incompatibilities and sluggish performance.

Of course there will be those who say, "What did you expect? It's a brand-new OS! Wait a year to upgrade!" Well, of course! I know that! I'm a former sys-admin! But what about the people who believed all the hype about Windows Vista and waited 'til it was released to purchase a new computer? Is it right that Microsoft released and Dell shipped to them such a problematic, unpolished OS? I don't believe that it is.

I was thinking about purchasing Vista for my next homebuild, but now I think I'll go with XP SP2 or maybe even Linux (I haven't had a Linux box at home in a while ? kind of miss it). Hopefully Microsoft will be able to stay competitive with their new OS, but right now from my vantage point, it isn't looking good.

 

[purplehippo]

I have Vista Home Premium and Vista Buisness running on 2 different machines. They are running flawlessly. Of course I did my homework. I got hardware that is vista ready and made sure drivers were available. My wife's machine plays all her games but a couple. But she said she can live without them. Had some trouble with antivirus. Ended up using Avast and it is working great. Windows OneCare and AVG are useless with Vista. They do not run correctly. All my motherboard utilities from MSI and ASUS run fine. My printer is a wireless HP 3310. Vista had native drivers built in and my wireless machine found and set up the printer first try with no errors. So all in all my experience has been great.

If you have driver issues try here. They have all the current and regularly updated drivers for most common hardware.

 

[Robor]

OP you really need cliffs...

You should also mention the hardware specs of the system you were installing on.

 

[tyanni]

I think the point here, though, is that if the machine comes with vista on it, it shouldn't have driver issues or experience slowness issues.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: tyanni
I think the point here, though, is that if the machine comes with vista on it, it shouldn't have driver issues or experience slowness issues.

Our default IBM systems came with WinXP Pro and 256MB of RAM. Just because it can be purchased that way doesn't make it ideal. I'm going to venture a guess that the PC the OP is talking about has 512MB of RAM.

 

[blurredvision]

I think that a lot of the OP's problems stem from it being a Dell. You said yourself it was probably all the bloat and crap Dell has preloaded, that's exactly what it is. I've worked on a few computers for family members, and they are obviously always Dell's or HP's. No matter what stage I've worked on them (be them new or 3 years old), they are always dog slow. You're used to fresh installs and lightning quick speed on a 5-year matured OS like XP, so you can't honestly judge an entirely new OS that it still in it's infancy on a premanufactured PC.

I implore you to do a fresh install of Vista at some point in the near future to get a taste for how it actually runs, without Dell's "recommended apps" . Now the driver problems you were having? That's definitely an issue.

The problem as I see it is this: I'm used to building my own PCs, using OEM versions of Windows, so granted, I'm probably just not used to all the crap that Dell pre-installs on its machines. And all that pre-installed crap might be part of the problem. But that's really no excuse, because for the average user, what I experienced yesterday will be the norm for them.

For the average user, though, they are mostly used to this, or do not expect/require the same speed.

 

[Smilin]

I hate walking through the stores and seeing the Vista desktops. The OEMs are loading so much assware on them it's screwing them up. When you fire up vista for the first time your desktop is supposed to look clean. So sad

For the OP:
Quit whining and do your job.

You have a Dell+Vista that runs like crap.
Others are running Dells fine.
Others are running Vista fine.

Since the OS doesn't really change from computer to computer it leaves you with:
1. Something is wrong with that particular Dell PC.
2. Something has been loaded on it that doesn't work right.
3. You have no idea what you are doing.

It seems #3 may have led to #2 but who knows? Why don't you start by calling Dell instead of spewing some rant here that everyone will liberally punch holes in.

 

[hardcandy2]

"It was an Athlon X2 3800 with 1 GB of RAM and onboard nVidia graphics. " Vista Basic should run fine on that computer. I am wondering if it had McAfee, Norton, etc trying to load and update in the background?
The man is looked upon as being knowledgable about computers, I doubt talking trash to him is going to make anything better. Smilin, if only your mother could hear you now.
Plus there is the Dell Control Center also trying to load and update. I usually let a Dell load and update for 30 minutes before trying to work witrh it.

 

[Schnieds]

I have two Dell's (one desktop, one laptop) with Vista Ultimate and both run flawlessly. Clean installs on both. As others have stated, I bet it is all of the bloatware that Dell installs that is causing the problem. Put a clean install of Vista on the machine and I am sure it will run great.

 

[zig3695]

Originally posted by: tribbles
I tend to be pretty open-minded when it comes to someone's choice of operating system. And I should be, considering that I use Linux, Windows XP x64 and Mac OS X all on a daily basis.

I still do some computer consulting on the side, so yesterday I went to a client's office to set up a new Dell for his shop manager. It was an Athlon X2 3800 with 1 GB of RAM and onboard nVidia graphics. The box said it came with Windows Vista Basic. I thought that this would be interesting, since I haven't used Vista hands-on yet.

I was a little surprised when the first thing that happened upon bootup was an "evaluation of your computer's performance" that lasted between five and ten minutes. Okay, whatever. I figured this would be a one-time thing, so no big deal.

Things became a little more frustrating when the system "finished" booting to the desktop, and I say "finished" because my mouse was locked for a couple of minutes. The hard drive was chattering away, and even though there was the appearance of everything being ready to go, I was stuck. Clicking the mouse did nothing. For a long time. Then the chattering died down, I was able to look around, affirmed that Microsoft Office 2007 had already been installed, and ran Windows Update.

The updates (there were three of them) downloaded pretty fast. The only problem was when the computer said it needed to restart. I told it to restart, and the OS went to the shutdown screen. Where it stayed for about ten minutes. I am not exaggerating. An employee happened to walk by me and see that I was waiting on the computer. Several minutes later he came back, saw that I was on the same "shutting down" screen, and joked that he was going to tell his boss that I had figured out a way to run up my billing (which he knew was hourly). Finally, after the computer had hypnotized me with that blasted busy cursor, it restarted.

Get back to the desktop. Guess what? Windows Vista informs me that there is a driver conflict. And not just one, but two of them! For this reason, Windows Vista tells me, Windows Sidebar is going to have to be turned off. Imagine that. Microsoft's own software update killed Windows Sidebar. As an added bonus, the audio isn't working anymore either. At this point, I start to realize that the one hour installation and setup I had expected is going to take a good deal longer.

Fast forward two hours. I still haven't resolved the conflict with Windows Sidebar. Audio still isn't working. And...this...computer...crawls. Doesn't matter that there is no Aero in this version of Windows Vista. The computer feels almost just like the Pentium 3 that it replaced.

What I've mentioned above is merely a summary. There were a few other ordeals too. Of course, since the computer was a Dell, I had to uninstall a ton of crap that wasn't needed. Unfortunately, this did not result in the desired increase in responsiveness. Today I got a call from the general manager of the place. She was wondering if her shop manager's computer was really new, and if so, why was it so damned slow? And why would Internet Explorer 7 refuse to download the Excel files that they had no problems accessing on the old computer (it works fine in Firefox)? And why was Windows Sidebar not working (answer: because I had to go home sometime, didn't I?)? And did that matter?

At this point, it looks like the computer is going to get a clean install of XP. The shop manager called me today (a little irritating, since I don't do this kind of support for a living anymore) and said she was completely lost in the new Microsoft Outlook.

All this to say: I'm rather appalled at Windows Vista. I was certainly expecting something more. After all, I've always been pretty happy with XP. I dual-boot it on my Mac Pro at home and use the 64-bit edition all the time at work. Truth is, right now, Vista feels broken.

The problem as I see it is this: I'm used to building my own PCs, using OEM versions of Windows, so granted, I'm probably just not used to all the crap that Dell pre-installs on its machines. And all that pre-installed crap might be part of the problem. But that's really no excuse, because for the average user, what I experienced yesterday will be the norm for them. And I think that's just unacceptable for the average consumer to pay $800 for a home/small office computer and immediately experience incompatibilities and sluggish performance.

Of course there will be those who say, "What did you expect? It's a brand-new OS! Wait a year to upgrade!" Well, of course! I know that! I'm a former sys-admin! But what about the people who believed all the hype about Windows Vista and waited 'til it was released to purchase a new computer? Is it right that Microsoft released and Dell shipped to them such a problematic, unpolished OS? I don't believe that it is.

I was thinking about purchasing Vista for my next homebuild, but now I think I'll go with XP SP2 or maybe even Linux (I haven't had a Linux box at home in a while ? kind of miss it). Hopefully Microsoft will be able to stay competitive with their new OS, but right now from my vantage point, it isn't looking good.

i dont have any of your problems. i suggest you start buying quality hardware or something, there is a reason it costs more for the non-generic stuff. vista is the most refined os ever created by micosoft, i cant image how you felt when XP fist came out

 

[GregGreen]

Originally posted by: hardcandy2
"It was an Athlon X2 3800 with 1 GB of RAM and onboard nVidia graphics. " Vista Basic should run fine on that computer. I am wondering if it had McAfee, Norton, etc trying to load and update in the background?
The man is looked upon as being knowledgable about computers, I doubt talking trash to him is going to make anything better. Smilin, if only your mother could hear you now.
Plus there is the Dell Control Center also trying to load and update. I usually let a Dell load and update for 30 minutes before trying to work witrh it.

I just recently bought a Dell -- X2 3800, 2gb ram, a Radeon x1300, and Vista Home Premium. I went for the x1300 after hearing about driver problems and being concerned about sharing RAM with the IGP. I have had none of the problems the OP talked about. There was very little stuff from Dell on the computer -- only the online manuals, some Google application, Roxio, and one other Dell utility. I did not notice much of a difference after uninstalling all of it, but this was fine because it was significantly faster than my P4 3.0C XP SP2 box that I had been using previously. OP, I am guessing you have an absolute lemon. Since you are not running Aero, the IGP and Nvidia's ****** drivers should not be holding you back. Try a reinstall, or maybe get on the phone with Dell to fix your problems.

 

[sam509]

No insult intended but sounds like the biggest problem is you were not properly prepared? why would a computer tech go in to the field and work on a computer with an OS he had never used hands-on. That is a recipe for exactly what happen.

 

[arciced]

I agree, VISTA IS TERRIBLE. actually I would of kept it if my sound didn't crackle, and no its not my sound card. I have a soudblaster x-fi extrememusic (on board disabled in bios), I got the latest drivers, and it crackles when theres cpu or hdd activity. and its not the sound card because I removed the card and tried the on board audio using acl850 vista drivers and it did the same crackling. so if the sound crackes the same way no matter what sound card I use then it means vista is incompatible with my a8n-sli premium motherboard because the bista chipset drivers are messing up the bus signals causing latency. when i was watching xvid videos, half way through the video the video and audio would go out of sync every single time on any video. when i tried to play games the crackling sound would lag the game aweful.. i was using all updated drivers there were released this month for nforce4 chipset, x-fi sound, and radeon 1950 video. I tried both 64bit and 32bit vista, 64bit had 5x more crackling and less performance than 32bit. vista makes it feel like i have less power, the ie7 is missing stuff, its hard setting folder settings. a lot of times i get confused when i try to get data out of the programfiles folder and into my documents it wont do it cos of vista nutty permission settings.. not to mention vistas main explorer crashed twice durring the 2 days i tested it.

so i put xp back in, everything runs faster and flawless. games are smooth and fun again. the sound is spectacular..

vista is a real disapointment, i know my motherboard is 3 years old, but come on its still top of the line today. my rig is excellent and theres no reason vista shouldnt run perfect on a 3800+ x2 2gig xm ddr, two raid 0 74gb raptures (best investment ever) this rig was suppsoed to last me until cpus got fast enough to make it worth my while to upgrade.. and im not talkin bout no core duo.. my rig can run any game out thereas long as i keep modern with video cards. all i need to do is update to 8800 and my 2.0ghz cpu can prolly play Crysis with no problems.. when i upgrade it wont be for vista, it will be for a cpu that has atleast 4x more speed per core than mine.. maybe a athlong 10000+ 5.0 ghz will do it

but vista OS its self did run fast, nothing at al ldescribbed by the starter of this thread. it sounds like the dell has hardware issue, even after bloatware it shouldnt run much slower unless u have less than 256mb of ram

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: arciced
I agree, VISTA IS TERRIBLE. actually I would of kept it if my sound didn't crackle, and no its not my sound card. I have a soudblaster x-fi extrememusic (on board disabled in bios), I got the latest drivers, and it crackles when theres cpu or hdd activity. and its not the sound card because I removed the card and tried the on board audio using acl850 vista drivers and it did the same crackling. so if the sound crackes the same way no matter what sound card I use then it means vista is incompatible with my a8n-sli premium motherboard because the bista chipset drivers are messing up the bus signals causing latency. when i was watching xvid videos, half way through the video the video and audio would go out of sync every single time on any video. when i tried to play games the crackling sound would lag the game aweful.. i was using all updated drivers there were released this month for nforce4 chipset, x-fi sound, and radeon 1950 video. I tried both 64bit and 32bit vista, 64bit had 5x more crackling and less performance than 32bit. vista makes it feel like i have less power, the ie7 is missing stuff, its hard setting folder settings. a lot of times i get confused when i try to get data out of the programfiles folder and into my documents it wont do it cos of vista nutty permission settings.. not to mention vistas main explorer crashed twice durring the 2 days i tested it.

so i put xp back in, everything runs faster and flawless. games are smooth and fun again. the sound is spectacular..

vista is a real disapointment, i know my motherboard is 3 years old, but come on its still top of the line today. my rig is excellent and theres no reason vista shouldnt run perfect on a 3800+ x2 2gig xm ddr, two raid 0 74mb raptures (best investment ever) this rig was suppsoed to last me until cpus got fast enough to make it worth my while to upgrade.. and im not talkin bout no core duo.. my rig can run any game out thereas long as i keep modern with video cards. all i need to do is update to 8800 and my 2.0ghz cpu can prolly play Crysis with no problems.. when i upgrade it wont be for vista, it will be for a cpu that has atleast 4x more speed per core than mine.. maybe a athlong 10000+ 5.0 ghz will do it

This thread reminds me of when XP was first released,I followed some simple guide lines when I installed my OEM Vista x64,first was make sure you install software that is compatible with Vista and one at a time to make sure they work ok and there's no stability problems,drivers can be a problem depending on your hardware but I had no real problems with drivers,btw Creative did say there will be official sound card drivers in March,yes I know that's late ,but hopefully that should fix the sound problems you had.

Stability is excellent with Vista I find in general.

 

[sam509]

Originally posted by: arciced
I agree, VISTA IS TERRIBLE. actually I would of kept it if my sound didn't crackle, and no its not my sound card. I have a soudblaster x-fi extrememusic (on board disabled in bios), I got the latest drivers, and it crackles when theres cpu or hdd activity. and its not the sound card because I removed the card and tried the on board audio using acl850 vista drivers and it did the same crackling. so if the sound crackes the same way no matter what sound card I use then it means vista is incompatible with my a8n-sli premium motherboard because the bista chipset drivers are messing up the bus signals causing latency. when i was watching xvid videos, half way through the video the video and audio would go out of sync every single time on any video. when i tried to play games the crackling sound would lag the game aweful.. i was using all updated drivers there were released this month for nforce4 chipset, x-fi sound, and radeon 1950 video. I tried both 64bit and 32bit vista, 64bit had 5x more crackling and less performance than 32bit. vista makes it feel like i have less power, the ie7 is missing stuff, its hard setting folder settings. a lot of times i get confused when i try to get data out of the programfiles folder and into my documents it wont do it cos of vista nutty permission settings.. not to mention vistas main explorer crashed twice durring the 2 days i tested it.

so i put xp back in, everything runs faster and flawless. games are smooth and fun again. the sound is spectacular..

vista is a real disapointment, i know my motherboard is 3 years old, but come on its still top of the line today. my rig is excellent and theres no reason vista shouldnt run perfect on a 3800+ x2 2gig xm ddr, two raid 0 74gb raptures (best investment ever) this rig was suppsoed to last me until cpus got fast enough to make it worth my while to upgrade.. and im not talkin bout no core duo.. my rig can run any game out thereas long as i keep modern with video cards. all i need to do is update to 8800 and my 2.0ghz cpu can prolly play Crysis with no problems.. when i upgrade it wont be for vista, it will be for a cpu that has atleast 4x more speed per core than mine.. maybe a athlong 10000+ 5.0 ghz will do it

but vista OS its self did run fast, nothing at al ldescribbed by the starter of this thread. it sounds like the dell has hardware issue, even after bloatware it shouldnt run much slower unless u have less than 256mb of ram

It is not Microsoft or Vistas fault the manufacture of your hardware has not provided decent drivers.

 

[awolkoff]

Originally posted by: blurredvision
I think that a lot of the OP's problems stem from it being a Dell. You said yourself it was probably all the bloat and crap Dell has preloaded, that's exactly what it is.

+1
Its kind of a trap. The mainstream press encourages people to get Vista via a Dell or other "premade" machine. The resulting machine (often bought based on pricepoint) then runs, as you so descriptively say, dog slow.

+1.

 

[Job]

my x-fi crackles under XP too. It just annoys me Creative haven't released a proper driver yet - everything sounds flat

 

[Nothinman]

why would a computer tech go in to the field and work on a computer with an OS he had never used hands-on. That is a recipe for exactly what happen.

Because Windows is easy to use, isn't it?

 

[tribbles]

Originally posted by: sam509
No insult intended but sounds like the biggest problem is you were not properly prepared? why would a computer tech go in to the field and work on a computer with an OS he had never used hands-on. That is a recipe for exactly what happen.

If a client called you up and said that they had a new Dell sitting in a box waiting to be set up, how would you "prepare" yourself before going over to hook it up, boot it up, install Microsoft Office, and set up an Outlook account? These are quite simple things and I shouldn't have to prepare myself to make them happen. The first time I ever installed a distro of Linux, I was comfortably configuring my system and compiling software within a couple of hours.

The problem isn't that I don't understand Vista. I never bothered with the release candidates, but I've certainly read a great deal about the OS. My complaint isn't that I don't understand how to use the OS. I'm simply making the point that for the average user who buys their computer from Dell (instead of people like us who build them), their Windows Vista experience could be quite bad. Hopefully a fresh install will help, but that's not quite the point. All of us here know about fresh installs (and the Dell in question is going to get one), but does your mom? Your dad? Your aunt? Your sister?

I wasn't really asking for technical support. The purpose of my rant was to make the observations in the last couple of paragraphs. But for those who didn't read the whole post (because I did list the hardware specs), the computer in questions is an AMD X2 3800 w/ 1 GB of RAM and integrated nVidia graphics. Yes, the computer had Norton installed, along with a bunch of Roxio crap and even something from Corel. All those things have been removed.

Later.

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

No problems for me on an A64 3200 with 2GB of RAM and no crapware.

 

[nerp]

Yeah, i feel guilty reading all these Vista problem threads. It has been a dream for me. From the installation to the overall user experience to performance in normal apps and games, Vista has been better than I expected in every way.

 

[spherrod]

Originally posted by: nerp
Yeah, i feel guilty reading all these Vista problem threads. It has been a dream for me. From the installation to the overall user experience to performance in normal apps and games, Vista has been better than I expected in every way.

I agree - I was expecting far worse but it's been pretty smooth so far

 

[Tegeril]

I've seen some pretty ****** Vista machines come into our office (University IT) - Dell, Gateway, Compaq, HP (seems Gateway shipped some systems with System Restore off...) and some very nice Vista machines. I have two systems running Vista flawlessly but some of these, which have ostensibly suitable hardware have absolute crap performance. Working on them is painful and a fresh install would be a whole new experience for the user.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: hardcandy2
"It was an Athlon X2 3800 with 1 GB of RAM and onboard nVidia graphics. " Vista Basic should run fine on that computer. I am wondering if it had McAfee, Norton, etc trying to load and update in the background?
The man is looked upon as being knowledgable about computers, I doubt talking trash to him is going to make anything better. Smilin, if only your mother could hear you now.
Plus there is the Dell Control Center also trying to load and update. I usually let a Dell load and update for 30 minutes before trying to work witrh it.

Bah. He came in ranting. I ranted back. We'll both get over it. I don't really know tons about him but his post does have some things that make me question the level of expertise.

Besides. Logic is on my side on this one. There are some troubleshooting possibilities that need explored further before rolling over and crying about Vista.

 

[nweaver]

If you haven't had a linux box at home for a while, check out the ease of Ubuntu + Nvidia card + Beryl. Very nice Eyecandy. Make sure you get one with lots of memory, my GForce4 TI 4200 runs out of onboard memory and then has the "black" screen.