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AP News: Computer Science Education

frankie38

Senior member
CS needs the best and brightest in the field. With that said, it is a good that the growth of students majoring in CS is in decline. Let the other majors have some growth.
We need CS PHD's, not more C or Java programmers.

LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Even in a nation where most every school has Internet access and computer use often starts by nursery school, teachers of technology see a warning message flashing.

For students in elementary and secondary schools, states have few developed standards or required courses in computer science -- a field that goes beyond basic literacy to encompass hardware and software design, real-world applications and computers' effect on society.

Such lean coursework means that many students don't have the chance to study the science of computers until college, where a declining number are majoring in the subject. Somehow, teachers contend, states must embrace the idea of training sophisticated computer users at a younger age.

The sell isn't easy. Computer science, like other subjects, is fighting for time on student schedules and a place on the political agenda, where reading and math dominate.

"Students don't have to take our classes, it's only an option," said Jim Lindberg, who teaches computer software applications to high school students in Tacoma, Washington. "Some kids, for whatever reason, are missing the opportunity to at least take a bite out of the class, to see what it's all about ... They would use the skills they learn for the rest of their lives."

Technology teachers spoke to The Associated Press during a group interview at the annual meeting of the National Education Association, the country's largest teachers union.

Mike Brown, an instructional supervisor for Robertson County Schools in Springfield, Tennessee, said more high school students should be learning programming, Web site management or graphics. Instead, they take basic keyboarding and graduate without much computer savvy, he said.

The same students who can customize their cell phones expertly need to see how computer science benefits them, he said: "If you can show them that, then they're going to jump on it."

Yet computer science teachers say they're facing a perception that careers in the field are harder to come by since the dot.com collapse a few years ago. Federal job forecasts contradict that notion, and careers from criminology to biology often demand advanced computer training.

In the United States, the number of bachelor's degrees in computer and information sciences soared 91 percent from 1997 to 2002, during the tech boom. Recently, however, the popularity of computer science as a major for incoming freshmen has plummeted, falling more than 60 percent between 2000 and 2004, according to the Higher Education Research Institute at UCLA.

Meanwhile, technology executives have told Congress they are increasingly relying on employees from overseas and clamoring for more U.S. graduates with stronger science skills.

The fastest growing jobs through 2012 include data communications analysts, health information technicians and computer software engineers, according to the Labor Department.

Other developments show why advocates are worried.

The number of computer science teachers dropped slightly in 2005 for the first time in years, according to Market Data Retrieval, which annually surveys schools districts.

Even the Advanced Placement Program has seen a declining number of students take its yearly tests in computer science, bucking a trend in which most every AP subject is booming.

Lindberg, the Washington teacher, has integrated reading and math into his class and helped teachers in other departments see how to better use technology. "It's almost a survival mechanism, but we're showing the 'academic' teachers that what we teach is valuable," he said.

Glenn Fernandez, an elementary school technology coordinator in Honolulu, Hawaii, helps students learn desktop publishing, spreadsheets and other tasks by sixth grade. But some schools can't afford such programs, or they lose funding for subjects required for graduation, he said. If the teachers only know word processing, he said, "that's all their class is going to get."

And that's not enough, said Chris Stephenson, executive director of the Computer Science Teachers Association, a newly formed advocacy group. The nation needs students who are prepared to develop software, design hardware, program languages and manage databases, she said. The association is promoting a model curriculum that integrates computer science through every grade.

"We need to get (students) to the level of creating original works with their skills," Stephenson said. "We want to see a generation of tool builders, not just tool users, because tool builders have the economic power in the world."

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

 
Computer science is a very large field. Mostly the computer programming is being outsourced. If India starts a war with pakistan we could have a big problem.

Big money can still be made in database management and design. Still there is a glut of some jobs. However experienced database managers are probably in short supply. A lot of companies do not want to spend any money on training people. They want people just to show up that were trained by someone else.
 
Exactly what piasabird said. If by "computer science" all we mean is code-monkey, then yes, outsourcing is a problem. But if you have some higher level skills, or a focus area, CS is still fine. My particular focus is computer security (on an engineering, not IT, level), that is not being outsourced and the demand is growing.

Like many industries, CS has progressed to the point where having just the basic skills is not good enough anymore. It happens in ever industiry eventually, yet people always seem surprised when it does.
 
Originally posted by: piasabird
Computer science is a very large field. Mostly the computer programming is being outsourced. If India starts a war with pakistan we could have a big problem.

Big money can still be made in database management and design. Still there is a glut of some jobs. However experienced database managers are probably in short supply. A lot of companies do not want to spend any money on training people. They want people just to show up that were trained by someone else.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

i've been OCP certified since 2001, and am finishing my BS in CS this december and will have 9 creds of my MS done. don't tell people where the money is at or there won't be enough for me!!! 😉
 
Originally posted by: KidViciou$
Originally posted by: piasabird
Computer science is a very large field. Mostly the computer programming is being outsourced. If India starts a war with pakistan we could have a big problem.

Big money can still be made in database management and design. Still there is a glut of some jobs. However experienced database managers are probably in short supply. A lot of companies do not want to spend any money on training people. They want people just to show up that were trained by someone else.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

i've been OCP certified since 2001, and am finishing my BS in CS this december and will have 9 creds of my MS done. don't tell people where the money is at or there won't be enough for me!!! 😉


I wouldn't advise anyone to go into the computer field. If they can outsource computer programmers why can't they do the same for a database programmer?

Yeah if your lucky to have a niche and find a decent company to work for like google or someone that has some stability ... But I would be worried since you know that at any time your job could become NEXT ... No one is secure anymore. I use to think working with the government I would have a secure job. Seems outsource is only a few months away. Who knows. I don't really care tho, I have my house and truck paid off ... So, Bring it on!

I'm sure I could ride the unemployment hiway for a few years... Should be a fairly nice vacation and I'm sure I could get some education out of the deal. 😉

My advice if your heading into this type of work? Get some training in something else and leave the back burners blazing as one never knows when you may be next.

Good Luck!

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Fortune Cookie
 
Originally posted by: MicroChrome
I wouldn't advise anyone to go into the computer field. If they can outsource computer programmers why can't they do the same for a database programmer?

True, programming of any type can be outsourced, but someone in the corporation has to provide the specifications and often high level design, which are the difficult parts of the software engineering process.

There's a huge demand for people with information security expertise and few of those jobs will be offshored for obvious reasons. If you know what you're doing, are willing to relocate, and can get a security clearance, then you can definitely get a job.
 
Think of Code monkeys as the manufacturing workers of this industry.
There is plenty of demand for just about anything else in the industry and it continues to grow.

You can only offshore so much before you are up shat creek without a paddle. I know people are good but I dont know anybody who can pysically be on the hardware of your database server within 24 hours if it is housed in India.

Try explaining to the CEO of your company why your company has come to screeching halt while your help is on a plane to India to fix the issue.

Might as well go back to your desk and fire up monster.com
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Think of Code monkeys as the manufacturing workers of this industry.
There is plenty of demand for just about anything else in the industry and it continues to grow.

You can only offshore so much before you are up shat creek without a paddle. I know people are good but I dont know anybody who can pysically be on the hardware of your database server within 24 hours if it is housed in India.

Try explaining to the CEO of your company why your company has come to screeching halt while your help is on a plane to India to fix the issue.

Might as well go back to your desk and fire up monster.com


EXACTLY! mission critical parts of companies will not be offshored, and i as a DBA fall into that category! 😛

besides, my parents are from india, so i figure if i have to go there to get a job, it shouldn't be too bad, i'll just go there for 10 months, and come here for vacations, just long enough to make some decent money. over there i could live like a king
 
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