AP Impact: CEO pay exceeds pre-recession levels.

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
I heard an interesting connection made today between 9/11 and the great recession.

At the root of the great recession was the excessive activity around home buying, and at the base of that real estate excess was the historic drop of interest rates.

The interest rates were dropped directly to counter the effects on the economy of 9/11.

The law of unintended consequences seems to have had an effect.

Thank the finance industry and political corruption pushing the continued low rates.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
I heard an interesting connection made today between 9/11 and the great recession.

At the root of the great recession was the excessive activity around home buying, and at the base of that real estate excess was the historic drop of interest rates.

The interest rates were dropped directly to counter the effects on the economy of 9/11.

The law of unintended consequences seems to have had an effect.

Thank the finance industry and political corruption pushing the continued low rates.

I'm more worried about the irrevocable inflation that will happen if rates are kept too low for too long. (they should be well over 3% now if you follow GDP growth)

It is painfully obvious that we are experiencing heavy inflation now. It is being covered up. Prices are up 10.1% YOY.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
I'm more worried about the irrevocable inflation that will happen if rates are kept too low for too long. (they should be well over 3% now if you follow GDP growth)

It is painfully obvious that we are experiencing heavy inflation now. It is being covered up. Prices are up 10.1% YOY.

You can't cherry pick a couple items you see going up in price and call that general inflation. The CPI (which measures inflation) consists of a basket of goods, not all of which are going up in price. Heck, housing is falling like a stone and its one of the biggest components determining whether we have inflation or deflation. Likewise, there are numerous other components which are falling in price as well. I'll bet the anecdotal 10.1% YOY inflation you mentioned is for some very high volatility item like gasoline.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
You can't cherry pick a couple items you see going up in price and call that general inflation. The CPI (which measures inflation) consists of a basket of goods, not all of which are going up in price. Heck, housing is falling like a stone and its one of the biggest components determining whether we have inflation or deflation. Likewise, there are numerous other components which are falling in price as well. I'll bet the anecdotal 10.1% YOY inflation you mentioned is for some very high volatility item like gasoline.

Prices are up 10.1% YOY if you consider everything.

*NOT* core inflation which doesn't consider housing, healthcare, energy.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-IM...5.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=7&asset=&ccode=

This is just sickening, considering the situation of the rest of the country.

The finance industry is still being propped up by free money from the fed, and the literally risk-free profits are going straight into the pockets of the people at the top.

That's because corporate earnings exceeds pre-recession levels. My income is 80%+ pre-recessional levels. Producers will continue to earn, while the leeches continue to bottom feed.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
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Wild, maybe the shareholders of said companies should elect different directors or place limitations on their salaries?
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
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Well you have a president that has more corporate cronies in the white house than any recent previous administration... what did you expect?
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
That's because corporate earnings exceeds pre-recession levels. My income is 80%+ pre-recessional levels. Producers will continue to earn, while the leeches continue to bottom feed.

Truth. The market and company performance is strongly up which is directly tied to their compensation. These results should surprise only the class warfare hounds.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
That's because corporate earnings exceeds pre-recession levels. My income is 80%+ pre-recessional levels. Producers will continue to earn, while the leeches continue to bottom feed.
Selling a lot more Malt Liquor and Lottery tickets these days huh
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,682
136
Meanwhile, their paid pundits and congressional mouthpieces are preaching austerity for the rest of us.

They got their extended tax cuts and their bailouts along with estate tax cuts and a lot of other goodies, too... so, uhh, not to be rude, but where are the jobs they promised? That magical trickledown goodness of "growth" they keep talking about?

I suppose it's more important for Righties to have somebody to worship and emulate than to think about that other than in a superficial way...

Everybody thinks they too will be rich someday, but they won't, of course, particularly when the guys at the top are hogging all the gravy...
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
Companies are seeing higher profits, the people who are running them should see higher wages as well if they're doing a good job and helping to create the profits.

Profits are good.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Companies are seeing higher profits, the people who are running them should see higher wages as well if they're doing a good job and helping to create the profits.

Profits are good.

And so should the workers, not just the fat cats.
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
199
106
Yeah 99.9% of the population are leeches. Except for a few people here. Ok I see now.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Readers, read the above posts, and then see if you think Matt Taibbi nailed them:

In the Randian ethos, called objectivism, the only real morality is self-interest, and society is divided into groups who are efficiently self-interested (ie, the rich) and the "parasites" and "moochers" who wish to take their earnings through taxes, which are an unjust use of force in Randian politics. Rand believed government had virtually no natural role in society. She conceded that police were necessary, but was such a fervent believer in laissez-faire capitalism she refused to accept any need for economic regulation – which is a fancy way of saying we only need law enforcement for unsophisticated criminals.

Rand's fingerprints are all over the recent Goldman story. The case in question involves a hedge fund financier, John Paulson, who went to Goldman with the idea of a synthetic derivative package pegged to risky American mortgages, for use in betting against the mortgage market. Paulson would short the package, called Abacus, and Goldman would then sell the deal to suckers who would be told it was a good bet for a long investment. The SEC's contention is that Goldman committed a crime – a "failure to disclose" – when they failed to tell the suckers about the role played by the vulture betting against them on the other side of the deal.

Now, the instruments in question in this deal – collateralised debt obligations and credit default swaps – fall into the category of derivatives, which are virtually unregulated in the US thanks in large part to the effort of gremlinish former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who as a young man was close to Rand and remained a staunch Randian his whole life. In the late 90s, Greenspan lobbied hard for the passage of a law that came to be called the Commodity Futures Modernisation Act of 2000, a monster of a bill that among other things deregulated the sort of interest-rate swaps Goldman used in its now-infamous dealings with Greece.

Both the Paulson deal and the Greece deal were examples of Goldman making millions by bending over their own business partners. In the Paulson deal the suckers were European banks such as ABN-Amro and IKB, which were never told that the stuff Goldman was cheerfully selling to them was, in effect, designed to implode; in the Greece deal, Goldman hilariously used exotic swaps to help the country mask its financial problems, then turned right around and bet against the country by shorting Greece's debt.

Now here's the really weird thing. Confronted with the evidence of public outrage over these deals, the leaders of Goldman will often appear to be genuinely confused, scratching their heads and staring quizzically into the camera like they don't know what you're upset about. It's not an act. There have been a lot of greedy financiers and banks in history, but what makes Goldman stand out is its truly bizarre cultist/religious belief in the rightness of what it does...

Even if he stands to make a buck at it, even your average used-car salesman won't sell some working father a car with wobbly brakes, then buy life insurance policies on that customer and his kids. But this is done almost as a matter of routine in the financial services industry, where the attitude after the inevitable pileup would be that that family was dumb for getting into the car in the first place. Caveat emptor, dude!

People have to understand this Randian mindset is now ingrained in the American character. You have to live here to see it. There's a hatred toward "moochers" and "parasites" – the Tea Party movement, which is mainly a bunch of pissed off suburban white people whining about minorities consuming social services, describes the battle as being between "water-carriers" and "water-drinkers". And regulation of any kind is deeply resisted, even after a disaster as sweeping as the 2008 crash.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Companies are seeing higher profits, the people who are running them should see higher wages as well if they're doing a good job and helping to create the profits.

Profits are good.

So the workers who make them rich shouldn't get paid more?

Oh right, if workers get paid more, cheeseburgers cost $25
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
So the workers who make them rich shouldn't get paid more?

Oh right, if workers get paid more, cheeseburgers cost $25

The executives are making more because most of their compensation comes in the form of stocks or options, which tend to increase in value when the company does well and/or lose money (or even become worthless) if the company does poorly. Most rank and file workers OTOH generally demand to be paid in cash, which holds its value regardless of how the company is doing but in turn doesn't give the chance for appreciation. Should those workers want to take on some of the risk in order to seek higher returns, they can buy shares of company stock.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,682
136
The executives are making more because most of their compensation comes in the form of stocks or options, which tend to increase in value when the company does well and/or lose money (or even become worthless) if the company does poorly. Most rank and file workers OTOH generally demand to be paid in cash, which holds its value regardless of how the company is doing but in turn doesn't give the chance for appreciation. Should those workers want to take on some of the risk in order to seek higher returns, they can buy shares of company stock.

Cute little dance- High end Execs have *contracts* that generally specify certain minimums, like a couple of hundred times what the average worker makes. The rest is gravy...

They don't "buy" company stock, either, but rather have grants & options as part of their package- it's not like they risk money they had in the first place unless they choose to do so...

Profits are up, way up, and so is unemployment... Go Figure...
 

brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
2,170
3
76
This is just sickening, considering the situation of the rest of the country.

The finance industry is still being propped up by free money from the fed, and the literally risk-free profits are going straight into the pockets of the people at the top.
The only way this is going to stop (and for sports athletes too) is by establishing additional marginal brackets at the very high end of the income scale (i.e. $750k+) and by phasing out the favorable 15% capital gains tax on investment income beyond a certain gross income level. Like I have been suggesting for well over a year now.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
The only way this is going to stop (and for sports athletes too) is by establishing additional marginal brackets at the very high end of the income scale (i.e. $750k+) and by phasing out the favorable 15% capital gains tax on investment income beyond a certain gross income level. Like I have been suggesting for well over a year now.
How are additional tax brackets going to stop people from being paid?

They will just figure out a way around it.

That 5 year baseball contract for $20 million will now be paid out at a million a year for the next 20 years etc.

Another way to get around it would be to pay people off shore since so many companies are now multinational etc etc.
 

x26

Senior member
Sep 17, 2007
734
15
81
Wild, maybe the shareholders of said companies should elect different directors or place limitations on their salaries?


Name 1 time that has ever happened??

They're all in Bed together--Figure it out!