AOpen Ti4200 Aeolus very bad overclocker ?

[SpeedyGonzales]

Hi guys,

I received my new AOpen Ti4200 - 128DVC Aeolus graphics adapter yesterday. I selected this one, because it has a nice feature set, software bundle and comes at very nice price. My expectations concerning overclocking were not too high, but at least I hoped to reach 500Mhz memory clock and 290 Mhz core.

However overclocking the core to 290 leads to a freeze (when running 3dMark2001SE), I can only get it running stable at 280 Mhz (did not test 285). The memory is even worse, as soon as I go beyond 465Mhz, I can see visual artifacts (black points), the higher I overclock the more I get. The system is not freezing, even if I run the memory at 530, but this goes hand in hand with a lot of visual artifacts.

The memory on the card is from Samsung and according to the lable I assume it must be 4ns. I am using the DVI connection to my TFT display. The rest of my rig is a standard Intel chipset P4 (1.8@2.2) setup running WinXP. Running the computer in specs does not make any difference.

Is it just tough luck, that the memory of this card is not even reaching the 500Mhz, or is that a known problem with the Samsung Ram or the Aeolus Ti4200 in general.

Thanks for any feedback
Speedy

 

[Doctorweir]

Hmmm, sounds a little familiar to me...

I have the same card, bought for the same reasons you mentioned plus a review that stated it is the hell of an overclocker...
so much for theory...
unpacked and examined the core is not A3 but A2 stepping...ok, normal for the ti4200s, but in the review it was an A3

Anyway after the first tests/overclocks the core seems to be pretty good, but the ram is just crappy...

So I started modding: Arctic Silver 3 under the core heatsink and attached 4 passive heatsinks on the rams (man, this card is heavy now )

Result: Core stable till 315 (more possible I think, card never froze in 3DMark till now), Sh!tty ram starts artefacting at 520, DOH! :|

Good luck...

EDIT: Oh, I forgot...welcome to the Forums

 

[SpeedyGonzales]

Thanks for the quick reply.

Puuh, I do not think, that I want to start modding the card, just for the chance to get another 10% out of it. The weak point really seems to be the RAM, do you remember, at which memory speedy you got artifacts, before you applied the heatsinks ?

Seems that our friends from AOpen sent a very good card to the reviewer at 3dguru.com. The question is, is it worth the effort to return the card and buy another one, just to get 70 or 80 more Mhz from the memory.

...and thanks for the warm welcome.

Speedy

 

[Doctorweir]

Hmmm, I think I started having artifacts at 500 without the sinks...
I modded quite soon and did no really intensive testing before, so I can't provide exact figures....

The card for 3dguru was handpicked I presume...if I remember correctly he received it directly from AOpen...

Higher ram frequency is key to speed, so the more the better...but to return it and get another...hmmm, hmmm...depends on your demands...

I will try some more, but I think I will run at 300/500 nice and stable...

 

[AnAndAustin]

SpeedyGonzales it sucks that your 4200 is a crappy o/c'er, but do rem that your 4200 was cheaper than GF3TI500 or Rad8500 were at the start of this year and even at standard clocks the 4200 kicks their asses. GF4TI cards, unlike GF2/GF4MX, gain quite equally from core and RAM increases, 280/465 is still a nice boost for free. If you have Hynix or Samsung 4.0ns RAM then you should be getting 520-560mhz, 4.5ns is used on the odd 4200 and would only give about 460-480mhz. Read your RAM chips, 2nd line down last 2 numbers.

I would rec trying differnet utilities for o/c'ing, some people have found this to be beneficial. Also try raising the RAM first and then the core, and vice versa, you may find you can run 270/500 or 280/465, worth a try to see if there is a diff.

 

[SpeedyGonzales]

@AnAndAustin

Thanks for the tipps, but unfortunately I tried them all before. My old GF3Ti200 (Asus) was a fantastic overclocker, so the speed gain I have with this GF4 is only 25% (and could be 50% if it would overclock better).

My card has the Samsung Ram with 4ns, so I do not understand, why it does not even reach 500Mhz without artifacts (I did the test with leaving the core at default).

At the moment I am using the coolbit for overclocking, but if you suggest, I can also use a different tool. However I do not understand, why using another tool should have an impact. 465Mhz over 446 is really disappointing.

Ok, I will try some other things now, but to be honest, I think it is a bad piece of hardware.

Cheers
Speedy

 

[SpeedyGonzales]

Ok,

I removed the card again, it is the Samsung Ram with 4ns, which was also shown in one of Anand´s reviews. I also removed the fan to find out, that AOpen put some thermal grease on the GPU, not bad.

I will now try running my rig with an additional fan and case open, GPU core back to stock speed. Maybe I can increase the memory speed this way. I have also set my machine back to default speed, just to make sure, the card is not suffering from heat.

I will let u know the results tonight (Europe), any other hints are appreciated.

Cheers
Speedy

 

[Doctorweir]

I also removed the fan to find out, that AOpen put some thermal grease on the GPU, not bad.

To be more specific, the core is soaked with some generic thermal paste (at least in my case)...so if you have some AS or other quality thermal paste at hand, consider replacing the stock stuff...

 

[Blain]

Has anyone tried the Aeolus video capture functions out? If so, what are your thoughts on the value it adds to this 4200?

 

[SpeedyGonzales]

So,

I have done my tests. Even under optimal conditions (open case, CPU on default speed, GPU on default speed, additional case fan), I can not get more than 469 Mhz memory speed out of this baby, without the artifacts starting to show up (very few at 471 Mhz but increasing quick). This time I used PowerStrip instead of the Coolbits, but it does not really seem to make a difference.

Currently my best tested combo is 280/469, which is poor for a Ti4200 with 128Mbyte. I have not tested the video functions (and will not), so unfortunately I can not help you Blain.

@Doctorweir

I can confirm that the thermal paste AOpen is using is only a generic one (but at least they are using something). Btw., why did you only use 4 passive heatsinks on your RAM ? This card has 8 banks (of 16Mbyte). 4 are just on the other side of the card. I also found out, that the GPU stepping is A2 on my card. It really seems, they send their latest and greatest card to 3dguru.

Bottom line: I give up and will use this card for the next 12 months until generation 2 DX9 cards will be available for a reasonable price. For people who want to do heavy overclocking of their Ti4200, I can clearly not recommend this card (and according to Doctorweir´s experience I am not the only one with oc probs).

If you want to have a card with video functions, DVI and a good software bundle and if you are not interested in overclocking the AOpen Ti4200 may still be interesting for you. I will go for ASUS or Gainward again next time.

Cheers
Speedy

 

[AnAndAustin]

Well obviously any mods will render your warranty useless, not good if the card ends up failing from an unrelated manu defect. Esp since HSF, paste and RAM HS will be VERY lucky to give you even 10% more perf, the o/c'ing limit is very rarely tied to hit disipation but to the limit of your particular RAM and core. If you do add RAM HS you only need 4 HS as each HS covers 2 chips. IMHO I'd stick with the card as it is, and avoid Aopen's gfx cards in the future.

 

[SpeedyGonzales]

That is what I will do.

I share your view on modding. Running the gfx card cooler had nearly no effect on the frequencies I could achieve. It seems, that I simply have not the best RAM. A bit disappointing but not the end of the world.

Thanks again everybody for your help.

Cheers
Speedy

 

[dukdukgoos]

Had the same experience...memory wouldn't overclock well. I'm gonna wait for the 9700 and either get it or get a ti4600 when the prices fall though the floor

 

[Doctorweir]

Btw., why did you only use 4 passive heatsinks on your RAM ?

Answer:

If you do add RAM HS you only need 4 HS as each HS covers 2 chips.

Ideed my sinks cover 2 (neighbouring) chips each...

Really bad luck with your card... I figured out yesterday that my core limit is 320MHz...but with my current config (310/510) the card runs fine, I get 9500 3DMs and UT2003 runs very smooth @ 1280x1024 even in beta stage...can't wait for the final...

At least the card was cheap....cheers...

 

[SpeedyGonzales]

@doctorweir

if I could reach the speeds of your card, I would stop complaining immediately. But I do not believe, that cooling the memory with passive heatsinks will allow me to go from 465 to 510 Mhz. And spending 10Euro for 4 heatsinks, just to get 5 more Mhz is not really worth it.

I think I can get the core to 290, with the new fan I put into my case and some AS instead of the generic paste. Maybe I will once do this, just because it is fun fooling around with the hardware.

(There is an offer from Thermaltake a GF4 copper cooler and 4 aluminium heatsinks for 19Euro, maybe I will give it a try, when I have nothing else to do).

Cheers
Speedy

 

[Gruip]

While searching for the right Ti 4200, I read a review as mentioned earlier in this thread at Guru3d.com and immediatly was set on the Aopen Aeolus. I planned on overclocking it, but after reading this thread my hopes are not high. /sigh We'll see what happens.

 

[SpeedyGonzales]

Hi Gruip,

I am now running the card at 285//475, that is all it can do without showing artifarcts. The airflow in my case is very good, so heat not holding me back.

To be honest with you, I am not complaining about the card, because the performance difference to 290-300//520-540 (which is what you can usually get from a 128mbyte Ti4200) is not too big. However the current line-up of Geforce cards is anyway not doing what I would like to do. I am running an Eizo L565 TFT and would like to play my games in 1280*1024 with AA and AF, but this is not possible even with the Ti4600. Therefore I will wait until the Radeon9700pro falls to less than 400Euro or the Geforce5 is out and replace the Ti4200.

If you need a Videocard right now and can not wait, take a look at the MSI stuff. They offer very good prices recently, even a Ti4600 is affordable, the Ti4200 is really cheap and all the reviews say, that they overclock very well.

Cheers
Speedy

 

[Doctorweir]

Hey Speedy,

have you tried the UT2003 demo yet? I think the performance is quite good...even at 1280 with QxAA and 1xAF to sharpen the textures the performance is acceptable (Benchmark: 73/42). But at 1280 the game looks great anyway...

And the Aeolus still sucks...to have UT fully operational without artifacts, I have to slow down mem to 500
But as you said, differences are marginal. 40MHz in memory speed only result in 2-4 frames de-/increase. => To really "see" a performance increase the memory should do at least 600 So I also stop complaining...
Result: Sometime next year some Radeon9700 or NV30 for <200Euros Until then the Aeolus will do a good job...

 

[SpeedyGonzales]

Hi Doctorweir,

I can not more than agree. The Aeolus will do the job until either the Radeon9700 or the yet not released Geforce5 have fallen in price. I was close to buying a Radeon 9700pro right now, because running Mafia or UT2003 in 1280*1024 with 4*AF and 8*AA must be really nice, but I think the overall strategy to wait until a product is in the market for at least 6 months in most cases pays off. Also I am not willing to support the Europe price strategy of the hardware vendors. I checked prices at Newegg, you can have a Radeon 9700pro between $320 and 340 in the US. In Europe these cards are still between Euro445 and 499 (with Euro and Dollar being nearly on par). Some people claim, that this is because of taxes, but this is not true. Small differences in the VAT do not explain this ridicoulus price difference (and there are not other taxes on it) and the cards for the european market are not produced in the US anyway, they are all coming from the far east, so manufactoring costs should not make any difference.

So the only power you have as a retail customer is not to buy, or buy when the price differences have come down.

Concerning the UT2003 demo, I must say, that I have not played it yet. In the rare time I have for gaming, I am still addicted to WC3 and Mafia (what a great story). But there is another reason: I belong to the 5% people in Germany, that have no access to DSL, because I am living 1,5km too far away from the next access point. Internet via the cable is still very rare in Germany, because we are still suffering from that old Telecom monopoly here and Sky-DSL (which is available at my place) is not a real alternative because of the poor pings (not good for gaming). It is no fun downloading a 100Mbyte demo with a 64kbit ISDN line, I will have to wait until I is available on a CD.

Cheers
Speedy

 

[Doctorweir]

Oh, then I presume we can PM in German next time, because I also live there, he, he...

Bad luck with your DSL, sometimes it's a lottery...

Regarding Mafia I didn't have the time to install it yet, but I really want to see it...

 

[SpeedyGonzales]

Mafia is really nice.

The main game is quite linear, but there is no way around this, if you want to tell a good story.

Short summary: sound is brilliant, graphics are very good (Lost Heaven is really impressive, with lens flare effects, changing weather conditions, hundreds of simulated cars, pedestrians etc.), the story is excellent. The gameplay is addictive, because you always want to progress in the story, however some of the missions can be frustrating (driving missions with time limit or simply too many opponents), however all of them can be solved with a bit of pratice. You can not directly compare it to GTA3, because GTA3 is more focussed on driving, where Mafia is more focused on fighting/shooting (with the typical weapons of the 30s, like Thompson machine gun, a colt or even a baseball club). Be aware the fighting is not as smooth and fast as in UT, you need to do a lot of sneaking, crawling and hiding (to reload weapons) in order to survive.

Cheers
Speedy