AOL: Love It or Hate IT? New: MS Love it or Hate IT?

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xospec1alk

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
4,329
0
0
Originally posted by: piroroadkill
Originally posted by: xospec1alk
Originally posted by: piroroadkill
Believe me, there's more to it than "OMG I'm such a fagg0t lets bash AOL".

you'd be surprised...i don't know if you read the whole thread but theres a lot of replies that have no reason other than aol sucks.

Hey, not arguing, I've seen this happen, but there are real reasons to dislike AOL, however the guys who go "I just don't like AOL because I don't, OMG, I suck" are mis-informed, those sort of people are the ones are form opinions of people within seconds and think almost everyone is a "lovely human".

i agree, which is why i respect the fact that you don't like aol. because you actually gave reasons. unlike others...

 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Over priced + poor service + buggy software=AOL sucks

AOL's software is surprisingly stable. There has been a couple versions that have had problems. But for the most part, it's been fine.

I wouldn't know because I have cox high speed. Last time I used it it sucked.

I had AOHell for 3 months back in the mid 90s and when I cancelled there service they continued to bill me. Fvckers. I hate AOL.
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
6
81
Originally posted by: russianpower
aol is only ok for comp. noobs and computer iliterates.

You can log on to aol right now and get into an informed discussion about any computer topic you could imagine in one of their chat rooms.

I have seen some college professors that teach in technology with aol email address, are they considerd noobs?
 

sonoma1993

Diamond Member
May 31, 2004
3,410
19
81
i used to use aol, id like aol software versiions from 3.0 til about 7.0 My grandma computer, she as the 9.0 software on there, it pretty much killed her computer, it takes for ever to load into windows xp and aol/ and stuff. she running a intel celeron 1000 mhz. i think with like 128mb of ram. This old compaq computer i got from my gf that has a celrom 600mhz chip in it, would boot faster into windows xp then my grandma computer, this was before i even increase the memory in my compaq to 512mb. so yeah aol bloatware 9.0 is no good. i try telliing my grandma that but she like no i like this 9.0
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
0
0
Originally posted by: Googer
Originally posted by: russianpower
aol is only ok for comp. noobs and computer iliterates.

You can log on to aol right now and get into an informed discussion about any computer topic you could imagine in one of their chat rooms.

I have seen some college professors that teach in technology with aol email address, are they considerd noobs?

Absofreakinglutly...
Infact I've met many college IT proffs that I wouldn't hire for a real world job....
in fact hell if i saw AOL as the contact resume on jobs I was screening for an IT position even on our helpdesk I give a big fat thumbs down.
 

MDE

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
13,199
1
81
If half the people that hate it had tried it they wouldn't badmouth it as badly as they do. It's a good way for tech illiterate people to get online and check their email. Now they also have free antivirus and spyware scanners as well so that means less "my internet broke" calls.
 

MrNutz

Banned
Oct 18, 2001
851
0
0
Originally posted by: Googer
Thanks for the dead link...
Looks like Yahoo charges for me to share that file now... Here's a direct link:
Fixed Link
Originally posted by: xospec1alk
it was funny at first the server rooms were killed, and then it took a while for them to realize they changed the name to cerver, and then zerver....and t hen they got off that naming convention...stupid aol hehe
it was amazing how many programs we used to d/l over a 56K connection... after the rooms disappeared for good, aol instantly became worthless. they even started killing the .mp3 share rooms and that was before anyone even cared about copyrights on .mp3 files. :roll:

 

xospec1alk

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
4,329
0
0
Originally posted by: MrNutz
it was amazing how many programs we used to d/l over a 56K connection... after the rooms disappeared for good, aol instantly became worthless. they even started killing the .mp3 share rooms and that was before anyone even cared about copyrights on .mp3 files. :roll:

yeh, my machine was on for days and days dling each of those files. And the thing about aol email boxes...15mb attachments!!!!
 

MrNutz

Banned
Oct 18, 2001
851
0
0
Originally posted by: xospec1alk
yeh, my machine was on for days and days dling each of those files. And the thing about aol email boxes...15mb attachments!!!!
that's what made it great back then, perfect interface for warez sharing. and the proggies were initially some top notch apps in how they interfaced with aol... then they became 3rd party virus peddlers...

guess what... i think i've still got FateX around here somewhere... those were the days. ;)

 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
18,378
1
0
I used AOL back in the day when Prodigy internet was the biggest provider. I never had problems with AOL. I used it again w\for teh free trial when i went back home for summer break. Still no problems. I never got disconnected and software uinstalled easily. My aunt has MSN dial up and that feels slower and the interface is less user friendly.
 

MrNutz

Banned
Oct 18, 2001
851
0
0
Yep, remember those days... Now can anyone remember way back when there was a provider call Imagination?

Basically it was what Yahoo games is today. It was way before Prodigy and compuserve. You could chat or play chess, checkers, etc. with a chat interface as well. That's when I made up my original username MrNutz. Cool stuff until 9600 baud modems came out... then my 2400 just couldn't keep me up to speed during a game of checkers. :p

Modem talk in 1987
 

TechnoPro

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2003
1,727
0
76
Some observations from the field:

[1] AOL is slower to connect than a standard Windows DUN connection. Meaning, the time it takes to double click the AOL shortcut to when you can read mail and/or surf is measurably longer than when using a conventional dial-up method. Is this is a big deal? To a user who is lamenting about a slow computing experience, yes.

[2] AOL is a form of adware. AOL will frequently present the user with ads to buy software (or even other types of products) like Cookie Cleaner or other add-ons. I wouldn't doubt that there is an easy way to disable this option (Keyword PREFFFERENCES?), but I don't know of too many commercial software packages that, as a default option, pitch other products every time the software is initialized. This is not ?nag ware?, and nor is it the same as a passive banner ad on a web page. This AOL advertising pop-up requires interaction in the form of clicking "No Thanks" or the equivalent to close the offer.

[3] The proprietary e-mail system is junk. The e-mail client displays the e-mail address of the sender, and not the "display name" that the user intended for them to see. As such, AOL users might not recognize an address of a legitimate sender and subsequently delete it as they rightfully will not open mail from unknown recipients. User error? Not at all. People readily remember and recognize human names, not e-mail addresses. We remember URLs, not IP addresses? That same principal is why caller ID is so useful.

[4] AOL forces updates. When someone signs off, the software may still remain connected to the internet in order to download software updates. While this is certainly one approach to software updates, there is no method provided to terminate this update sequence, shy of a Ctrl + Alt + Del then End Task or equivalent. Perhaps this has been rectified in later versions using some background updating protocol, but the "in your face" approach I describe was very much a nuisance for several years.

[5] AOL installs excessive background processes, secondary applications, and desktop shortcuts. Use a tool like MSCONFIG or AutoRuns to take a before snapshot of what starts up when you boot your PC. Then install AOL. Compare the 2. Then start laughing as it is truly funny. Not only do I get a gateway to the internet, I get a spyware solution, a 1-touch computer system checker or whatever it's called, QuickTime is installed and now loaded at startup. When the AOL install disc is inserted, the end user is not asked if they would like these secondary programs to be installed. For that matter, they are not explicitly told either. From both a stability and security perspective, would you install software that, unknown to you, was also putting other programs on your PC? We have a name for this...

[6] I do not have specific RAM utilization figures handy, but AOL slows down even fast systems. Perhaps it is a memory hog, perhaps the core application is bloated and poorly programmed ? I do not know. It is definitely not an example of software that ?feels? fast.

[7] AOL's SPAM filters are problematic. Granted, SPAM is a major epidemic with no real elegant solution. I often hear of AOL users not receiving legitimate e-mails that were sent to them. True, this is anecdotal at best, but when I have the user change ISP or create a non-AOL e-mail account, the e-mails magically come through. Perhaps there are user-level settings that could correct this, but again, I have yet to speak with a user who tweaked something and reported the problem as solved.

[8] As a corollary to the above, many other ISPs will block e-mails originating from AOL accounts. Not a 100% block, mind you. Case in point: I have a client who directs athletic teams and events. When he sends out mass e-mails to his players, coaches, parents, etc. from the AOL account, many users will not receive it. So we did a simple test. We had him send the same e-mail from another non-AOL account. The number of recipients who did not receive them dropped dramatically. No, this is not the fault of AOL, nor the end-user. However, I cannot fathom why an individual would subscribe to a service that has known issues regarding both sending and receiving e-mails. And AOL pitches their service to small businesses? That is a good one.

[9] Strictly speaking, AOL is not an ISP. They provide the gateway o the internet, the web browser, the e-mail client, the chat client, and other programs that may or many not be of value and use to the end-user. These value-added services are inferior to other equivalent programs. Sure, other ISPs offer software suites that enhance and/or complement the ?online experience?. AOL reigns supreme in providing the largest variety of components and supplementary features. This is problematic for one simple reason: these components do not measure up against other widespread software packages.

[10] E-mails are automatically deleted. Unless they are saved to a Personal Filing Cabinet, or marked with a ?Keep as new? command. There is no obvious benefit to an end-user from having software automatically purge e-mails that the user may or may not have wanted to keep.

[11] AOL e-mail does not conform to the industry wide standards of POP3 or IMAP. Proprietary formats are great when said format provides exceptional usability ? in this case, the proprietary nature is cumbersome at best. AOL e-mail can be checked using an e-mail client like Outlook or Outlook Express only if third party software is installed and configured. Furthermore, the e-mail handling is not up to standards as it has consistently rendered e-mails wrong on the screen relative to how they are displayed on a variety of other e-mail clients.

[12] Has anyone received an e-mail with in an e-mail within and e-mail?? I haven?t the faintest idea how this is done, but I consistently see these erroneous messages stemming from AOL users. User error? Sure, given that the software apparently promotes a bad practice.

[13] AOL has been known to corrupt the TCP/IP stack or otherwise interfere with networking and/or modem settings.

[14] AOL is extremely easy to troubleshoot. In fact, there is no need for troubleshooting as there is only one way to fix it: RESINSTALL. Reinstallations and uninstallations have been known to be problematic; sometimes AOL cannot successfully be removed at all.

[15] AOL utilizes major components of the Internet Explorer browser but it is wrong to claim that that latest version of IE is the same browser in the latest version of AOL. There were years when many websites would have specific caveats about compatibility issues with AOL.

[17] Anecdotally, I have heard many experiences about people being billed repeatedly after they cancel their subscription to AOL. This is an unacceptable business practice. And if this is somehow not their accepted practice, then their billing department is not run properly at all.

[18] AOL produces an obscene amount of environmental waste with their shotgun approach to marketing by mailing out the plethora of CDs and including them in all of these PC related products. What?s great is when I buy a batch of new PCs for a business, all of them with come with an AOL CD. Business-class machines, mind you, that would never let AOL see the light of day.

[19] AOL, with presumably a fairly hefty marketing and advertising budget, has been unable to get one simple point across to its user base: AOL stands for America Online, not American Online. This is not user error, dammit! This is the marketing department?s inability to develop accurate branding of their product.

[20] The latest version of AOL will repeatedly prompt the user to change default file associations for multimedia content. A legitimate question that should appear once, perhaps. But repeatedly? No, this is nonsensical.

So do I think AOL sucks? Not at all. It is the best of the feature-rich, second-tier ISPs engineered for neophytes or unsophisticated home users. It is the best in that category as it is without rival, without peer.

AOL would tank if launched today; it lives on because of its existing user base. It has been losing members and will continue to lose business as broadband and more sophisticated technologies emerge. It was a pioneer who?s at the end of its lifespan.

[ EDIT 1 - Added # 20 ]
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
6
81
Originally posted by: TechnoPro
Some observations from the field:

[1] AOL is slower to connect than a standard Windows DUN connection. Meaning, the time it takes to double click the AOL shortcut to when you can read mail and/or surf is measurably longer than when using a conventional dial-up method. Is this is a big deal? To a user who is lamenting about a slow computing experience, yes.

[2] AOL is a form of adware. AOL will frequently present the user with ads to buy software (or even other types of products) like Cookie Cleaner or other add-ons. I wouldn't doubt that there is an easy way to disable this option (Keyword PREFFFERENCES?), but I don't know of too many commercial software packages that, as a default option, pitch other products every time the software is initialized. This is not ?nag ware?, and nor is it the same as a passive banner ad on a web page. This AOL advertising pop-up requires interaction in the form of clicking "No Thanks" or the equivalent to close the offer.

[3] The proprietary e-mail system is junk. The e-mail client displays the e-mail address of the sender, and not the "display name" that the user intended for them to see. As such, AOL users might not recognize an address of a legitimate sender and subsequently delete it as they rightfully will not open mail from unknown recipients. User error? Not at all. People readily remember and recognize human names, not e-mail addresses. We remember URLs, not IP addresses? That same principal is why caller ID is so useful.

[4] AOL forces updates. When someone signs off, the software may still remain connected to the internet in order to download software updates. While this is certainly one approach to software updates, there is no method provided to terminate this update sequence, shy of a Ctrl + Alt + Del then End Task or equivalent. Perhaps this has been rectified in later versions using some background updating protocol, but the "in your face" approach I describe was very much a nuisance for several years.

[5] AOL installs excessive background processes, secondary applications, and desktop shortcuts. Use a tool like MSCONFIG or AutoRuns to take a before snapshot of what starts up when you boot your PC. Then install AOL. Compare the 2. Then start laughing as it is truly funny. Not only do I get a gateway to the internet, I get a spyware solution, a 1-touch computer system checker or whatever it's called, QuickTime is installed and now loaded at startup. When the AOL install disc is inserted, the end user is not asked if they would like these secondary programs to be installed. For that matter, they are not explicitly told either. From both a stability and security perspective, would you install software that, unknown to you, was also putting other programs on your PC? We have a name for this...

[6] I do not have specific RAM utilization figures handy, but AOL slows down even fast systems. Perhaps it is a memory hog, perhaps the core application is bloated and poorly programmed ? I do not know. It is definitely not an example of software that ?feels? fast.

[7] AOL's SPAM filters are problematic. Granted, SPAM is a major epidemic with no real elegant solution. I often hear of AOL users not receiving legitimate e-mails that were sent to them. True, this is anecdotal at best, but when I have the user change ISP or create a non-AOL e-mail account, the e-mails magically come through. Perhaps there are user-level settings that could correct this, but again, I have yet to speak with a user who tweaked something and reported the problem as solved.

[8] As a corollary to the above, many other ISPs will block e-mails originating from AOL accounts. Not a 100% block, mind you. Case in point: I have a client who directs athletic teams and events. When he sends out mass e-mails to his players, coaches, parents, etc. from the AOL account, many users will not receive it. So we did a simple test. We had him send the same e-mail from another non-AOL account. The number of recipients who did not receive them dropped dramatically. No, this is not the fault of AOL, nor the end-user. However, I cannot fathom why an individual would subscribe to a service that has known issues regarding both sending and receiving e-mails. And AOL pitches their service to small businesses? That is a good one.

[9] Strictly speaking, AOL is not an ISP. They provide the gateway o the internet, the web browser, the e-mail client, the chat client, and other programs that may or many not be of value and use to the end-user. These value-added services are inferior to other equivalent programs. Sure, other ISPs offer software suites that enhance and/or complement the ?online experience?. AOL reigns supreme in providing the largest variety of components and supplementary features. This is problematic for one simple reason: these components do not measure up against other widespread software packages.

[10] E-mails are automatically deleted. Unless they are saved to a Personal Filing Cabinet, or marked with a ?Keep as new? command. There is no obvious benefit to an end-user from having software automatically purge e-mails that the user may or may not have wanted to keep.

[11] AOL e-mail does not conform to the industry wide standards of POP3 or IMAP. Proprietary formats are great when said format provides exceptional usability ? in this case, the proprietary nature is cumbersome at best. AOL e-mail can be checked using an e-mail client like Outlook or Outlook Express only if third party software is installed and configured. Furthermore, the e-mail handling is not up to standards as it has consistently rendered e-mails wrong on the screen relative to how they are displayed on a variety of other e-mail clients.

[12] Has anyone received an e-mail with in an e-mail within and e-mail?? I haven?t the faintest idea how this is done, but I consistently see these erroneous messages stemming from AOL users. User error? Sure, given that the software apparently promotes a bad practice.

[13] AOL has been known to corrupt the TCP/IP stack or otherwise interfere with networking and/or modem settings.

[14] AOL is extremely easy to troubleshoot. In fact, there is no need for troubleshooting as there is only one way to fix it: RESINSTALL. Reinstallations and uninstallations have been known to be problematic; sometimes AOL cannot successfully be removed at all.

[15] AOL utilizes major components of the Internet Explorer browser but it is wrong to claim that that latest version of IE is the same browser in the latest version of AOL. There were years when many websites would have specific caveats about compatibility issues with AOL.

[17] Anecdotally, I have heard many experiences about people being billed repeatedly after they cancel their subscription to AOL. This is an unacceptable business practice. And if this is somehow not their accepted practice, then their billing department is not run properly at all.

[18] AOL produces an obscene amount of environmental waste with their shotgun approach to marketing by mailing out the plethora of CDs and including them in all of these PC related products. What?s great is when I buy a batch of new PCs for a business, all of them with come with an AOL CD. Business-class machines, mind you, that would never let AOL see the light of day.

[19] AOL, with presumably a fairly hefty marketing and advertising budget, has been unable to get one simple point across to its user base: AOL stands for America Online, not American Online. This is not user error, dammit! This is the marketing department?s inability to develop accurate branding of their product.

So do I think AOL sucks? Not at all. It is the best of the feature-rich, second-tier ISPs engineered for neophytes or unsophisticated home users. It is the best in that category as it is without rival, without peer.

AOL would tank if launched today; it lives on because of its existing user base. It has been losing members and will continue to lose business as broadband and more sophisticated technologies emerge. It was a pioneer who?s at the end of its lifespan.

Nice post, you deserve a pat on the back for the effort,
I will list my comments corresponding by the number next to the paragraph.

I am not in any way trying to support AOL or take prefrence to any one side of this arguement, I am neutral on the issue of AOL GOOD vs EVIL.

[1] I have not experienced this before, do you have benchmarks?

[2] Yes, AOL keyword prefrences will disable the annoying ads and special offers.

[3]I agree that the e-mail system needs some improvement, Although I do give it credit for having an up to date spell check and Nice UI for composing emails.

[5] It is not AoL's fault that quicktime runs in the backgroud, send those complaints to apple. AoL is one of many programs that install or require quicktime. Go to apple.com/quicktime and download a copy from there and you will see it does the same thing as if it were installed by AoL.
Most applications these days install system tray apps, mozilla being one of them. But most of the time they are easily disabled. I am guessing that four out of every seven programs installed these days, install some kind of system tray icon.

[6]Depending on how and what you use it for, AOL uses about 20-30mb of ram, but version 9 will not install unless the system has more than 256mb of ram.

[7] & [8]Most ISP's and spam filters have that sort of problem. My yahoo e-mail account has that problem from time to time. AoL is not unique in this situation.

[9] ok, then please define what an ISP is. Aol does provide service to the internet don't they? And how is a gateway differant from and ISP?

[10] I agree 139% with you on that. IT SUCKS.

[11] POP and IMAP support would be nice, and AOL may want to consider adding it if they want to survive.

[12] yes I have and I recieve them from all ISP's: earthlinks, Road Runner, Comcast, and just to name a few. It is not the fault of the isp but the email client they are using. Mozilla and Outlook both do this, by default when you forward a message it is sent as an attachment and then downloaded by the client. AOL an mozilla suite (but not outlook) automaticly sort through this mess and render it with out haveing to download the message in a message 30 times.

[14]yep, about 95% true. there is only a little bit that can be done.
Also most versions after 5or6 (i think) have an auto fix feature that works most of the time. If that fails the same steps can be done manualy.

[18] I agree, maybe if they cut back on the cd's they would actually turn a profit from the all the savings in postage alone and not to mention the cost of the discs themselves.
 

TechnoPro

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2003
1,727
0
76
Originally posted by: Googer

Nice post, you deserve a pat on the back for the effort,
I will list my comments corresponding by the number next to the paragraph.

I am not in any way trying to support AOL or take prefrence to any one side of this arguement, I am neutral on the issue of AOL GOOD vs EVIL.

[1] I have not experienced this before, do you have benchmarks?

[2] Yes, AOL keyword prefrences will disable the annoying ads and special offers.

[3]I agree that the e-mail system needs some improvement, Although I do give it credit for having an up to date spell check and Nice UI for composing emails.

[5] It is not AoL's fault that quicktime runs in the backgroud, send those complaints to apple. AoL is one of many programs that install or require quicktime. Go to apple.com/quicktime and download a copy from there and you will see it does the same thing as if it were installed by AoL.
Most applications these days install system tray apps, mozilla being one of them. But most of the time they are easily disabled. I am guessing that four out of every seven programs installed these days, install some kind of system tray icon.

[6]Depending on how and what you use it for, AOL uses about 20-30mb of ram, but version 9 will not install unless the system has more than 256mb of ram.

[7] & [8]Most ISP's and spam filters have that sort of problem. My yahoo e-mail account has that problem from time to time. AoL is not unique in this situation.

[9] ok, then please define what an ISP is. Aol does provide service to the internet don't they? And how is a gateway differant from and ISP?

[10] I agree 139% with you on that. IT SUCKS.

[11] POP and IMAP support would be nice, and AOL may want to consider adding it if they want to survive.

[12] yes I have and I recieve them from all ISP's: earthlinks, Road Runner, Comcast, and just to name a few. It is not the fault of the isp but the email client they are using. Mozilla and Outlook both do this, by default when you forward a message it is sent as an attachment and then downloaded by the client. AOL an mozilla suite (but not outlook) automaticly sort through this mess and render it with out haveing to download the message in a message 30 times.

[14]yep, about 95% true. there is only a little bit that can be done.
Also most versions after 5or6 (i think) have an auto fix feature that works most of the time. If that fails the same steps can be done manualy.

[18] I agree, maybe if they cut back on the cd's they would actually turn a profit from the all the savings in postage alone and not to mention the cost of the discs themselves.

Okay, here's my deal. A home user can have warez, porn, AOL, spyware, whatever, on their home computer. This is of little consequence to me professionally and can be of little consequence to them as they may not know any better. Hell, they can drag the taskbar to the left side of the screen by accident and never figure out how to move it back. This is to be expected from novice users who experience a cursory working with the PC.

My chief focus is on the Soho (Small office/home office) and small business segment. In that world, stability, performance and security are crucial. With that said, here are some thoughts that address your comments:

[1] I have no benchmarks, just firsthand experience. I would be adverse to conducting any real testing as none of my PCs will be subjected to an AOL installation.

[2] Fine, so they can be disabled. AOL is not advertiser-sponsored shareware. On the contrary, it is a paid software service. Why should ads be introduced as the default option?

[3] Spell checking is and has been standard for most e-mail clients for some time now. What am I missing? Did AOL not have a spell check feature until recently? As for the UI, the latest version (9.0c) is definitely more pleasing on the eye than some of the previous generations.

[5] You missed my point on this one. Installing AOL places an excessive number of startup entries on the PC, period. I have problems with this from a performance, stability, and security perspective. And should I arbitrarily remove an AOL startup entry and then launch AOL, I have encountered error messages how the program cannot run, needs to fix itself, etc. Most applications outside of system utilities like AV scanners, firewalls, virtual drives, etc., do not require startup entries in order to function 100% normally. To me, this is indicative of bad software.

Next, I do not have QuickTime installed on my PC. I use and recommend QuickTime alternative. I have no gripes with Apple, nor QuickTime. It is a multimedia player, one that is not strictly needed for e-mail or web browsing yet it is installed by default with AOL. Why? Does this indicate bloatware?

[6] The core application uses 20-30 mb? What about the other AOL-installed processes running in the background? What overhead do they add?

[7] & [8] Like I said, there is no clear solution against SPAM right now. However, I have more reports of AOL-related SPAM issues than other providers. Although Hotmail and Yahoo rank highly as well, AOL does take first place.

[9] AOL is an ISP based on my quick lookup of the definition of the word.

Here?s my pitch: there is a whole variety of services that will connect you to the internet. The major division is broadband and baseband (dial-up).

Most baseband ISPs will give you a username, a password, and a list of dial-up numbers. Possibly some network settings? Type them in and connect. Type those same settings into another PC and boom, you can get online. Rinse and repeat No software needed. The ISP may provide connectivity software for low-level users, but it is NOT necessary for operation.

AOL requires the installation of software in order to get online. Remember back in the day, you could get online for free using software that placed banner ads on the ?front? of your screen? I don?t consider that a true ISP. I am indeed comparing apples and oranges by likening AOL to this type of adware-ISP, but they both fall on the outskirts of mainstream solutions.

AOL doesn?t offer broadband per se. They might have resold other companies high-speed services at some point? My details are sketchy here. So is ?AOL for Broadband? an ISP when they do not provide you with the actual internet connection?

I guess we could dance around semantics all day, but I view AOL as a fringe product, an entity within its own category that is unlike most, if not all, other ISPs.

[12] We will clearly not agree on this one. You are describing behaviors and features of Outlook I have never encountered before. The default installations of Outlook from versions 97 through present will not forward an e-mail message as an attachment. The only way I would know how to create an e-mail within an e-mail is to drag and drop an e-mail into a blank message. When repeated, this produces the e-mail within an e-mail within an e-mail phenomenon. You are correct in stating that Outlook will not automatically read through the e-mails within e-mails until it reaches the ?core?.

I have another issue to add to my list, as follows:

Can you read and/or reply to your e-mail when not signed in to AOL? I don?t think you can. So this to me is yet another negative. You are using a software based e-mail client that is offering the same limitation as a web-based e-mail service. Although, back in the day, there was something called ?Flash Sessions??

In the final analysis, I posit that AOL is a deplorable service for any business or professional. For home users, it reigns supreme as the best of the worst.
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
6
81
Originally posted by: TechnoPro
Originally posted by: Googer

Nice post, you deserve a pat on the back for the effort,
I will list my comments corresponding by the number next to the paragraph.

I am not in any way trying to support AOL or take prefrence to any one side of this arguement, I am neutral on the issue of AOL GOOD vs EVIL.

[1] I have not experienced this before, do you have benchmarks?

[2] Yes, AOL keyword prefrences will disable the annoying ads and special offers.

[3]I agree that the e-mail system needs some improvement, Although I do give it credit for having an up to date spell check and Nice UI for composing emails.

[5] It is not AoL's fault that quicktime runs in the backgroud, send those complaints to apple. AoL is one of many programs that install or require quicktime. Go to apple.com/quicktime and download a copy from there and you will see it does the same thing as if it were installed by AoL.
Most applications these days install system tray apps, mozilla being one of them. But most of the time they are easily disabled. I am guessing that four out of every seven programs installed these days, install some kind of system tray icon.

[6]Depending on how and what you use it for, AOL uses about 20-30mb of ram, but version 9 will not install unless the system has more than 256mb of ram.

[7] & [8]Most ISP's and spam filters have that sort of problem. My yahoo e-mail account has that problem from time to time. AoL is not unique in this situation.

[9] ok, then please define what an ISP is. Aol does provide service to the internet don't they? And how is a gateway differant from and ISP?

[10] I agree 139% with you on that. IT SUCKS.

[11] POP and IMAP support would be nice, and AOL may want to consider adding it if they want to survive.

[12] yes I have and I recieve them from all ISP's: earthlinks, Road Runner, Comcast, and just to name a few. It is not the fault of the isp but the email client they are using. Mozilla and Outlook both do this, by default when you forward a message it is sent as an attachment and then downloaded by the client. AOL an mozilla suite (but not outlook) automaticly sort through this mess and render it with out haveing to download the message in a message 30 times.

[14]yep, about 95% true. there is only a little bit that can be done.
Also most versions after 5or6 (i think) have an auto fix feature that works most of the time. If that fails the same steps can be done manualy.

[18] I agree, maybe if they cut back on the cd's they would actually turn a profit from the all the savings in postage alone and not to mention the cost of the discs themselves.

Okay, here's my deal. A home user can have warez, porn, AOL, spyware, whatever, on their home computer. This is of little consequence to me professionally and can be of little consequence to them as they may not know any better. Hell, they can drag the taskbar to the left side of the screen by accident and never figure out how to move it back. This is to be expected from novice users who experience a cursory working with the PC.

My chief focus is on the Soho (Small office/home office) and small business segment. In that world, stability, performance and security are crucial. With that said, here are some thoughts that address your comments:

[1] I have no benchmarks, just firsthand experience. I would be adverse to conducting any real testing as none of my PCs will be subjected to an AOL installation.

[2] Fine, so they can be disabled. AOL is not advertiser-sponsored shareware. On the contrary, it is a paid software service. Why should ads be introduced as the default option?

[3] Spell checking is and has been standard for most e-mail clients for some time now. What am I missing? Did AOL not have a spell check feature until recently? As for the UI, the latest version (9.0c) is definitely more pleasing on the eye than some of the previous generations.

[5] You missed my point on this one. Installing AOL places an excessive number of startup entries on the PC, period. I have problems with this from a performance, stability, and security perspective. And should I arbitrarily remove an AOL startup entry and then launch AOL, I have encountered error messages how the program cannot run, needs to fix itself, etc. Most applications outside of system utilities like AV scanners, firewalls, virtual drives, etc., do not require startup entries in order to function 100% normally. To me, this is indicative of bad software.

Next, I do not have QuickTime installed on my PC. I use and recommend QuickTime alternative. I have no gripes with Apple, nor QuickTime. It is a multimedia player, one that is not strictly needed for e-mail or web browsing yet it is installed by default with AOL. Why? Does this indicate bloatware?

[6] The core application uses 20-30 mb? What about the other AOL-installed processes running in the background? What overhead do they add?

[7] & [8] Like I said, there is no clear solution against SPAM right now. However, I have more reports of AOL-related SPAM issues than other providers. Although Hotmail and Yahoo rank highly as well, AOL does take first place.

[9] AOL is an ISP based on my quick lookup of the definition of the word.

Here?s my pitch: there is a whole variety of services that will connect you to the internet. The major division is broadband and baseband (dial-up).

Most baseband ISPs will give you a username, a password, and a list of dial-up numbers. Possibly some network settings? Type them in and connect. Type those same settings into another PC and boom, you can get online. Rinse and repeat No software needed. The ISP may provide connectivity software for low-level users, but it is NOT necessary for operation.

AOL requires the installation of software in order to get online. Remember back in the day, you could get online for free using software that placed banner ads on the ?front? of your screen? I don?t consider that a true ISP. I am indeed comparing apples and oranges by likening AOL to this type of adware-ISP, but they both fall on the outskirts of mainstream solutions.

AOL doesn?t offer broadband per se. They might have resold other companies high-speed services at some point? My details are sketchy here. So is ?AOL for Broadband? an ISP when they do not provide you with the actual internet connection?

I guess we could dance around semantics all day, but I view AOL as a fringe product, an entity within its own category that is unlike most, if not all, other ISPs.

[12] We will clearly not agree on this one. You are describing behaviors and features of Outlook I have never encountered before. The default installations of Outlook from versions 97 through present will not forward an e-mail message as an attachment. The only way I would know how to create an e-mail within an e-mail is to drag and drop an e-mail into a blank message. When repeated, this produces the e-mail within an e-mail within an e-mail phenomenon. You are correct in stating that Outlook will not automatically read through the e-mails within e-mails until it reaches the ?core?.

I have another issue to add to my list, as follows:

Can you read and/or reply to your e-mail when not signed in to AOL? I don?t think you can. So this to me is yet another negative. You are using a software based e-mail client that is offering the same limitation as a web-based e-mail service. Although, back in the day, there was something called ?Flash Sessions??

In the final analysis, I posit that AOL is a deplorable service for any business or professional. For home users, it reigns supreme as the best of the worst.


[2] From a buisness perspective It is not a bad Idea. If the ad's were diabled by default No one would turn them on. Kind of defeats the purpose of it. For MOST users AD's are annoying but I have met 3 people who actully want to keep the ad's enabled.

[3] you are right, I never noticed it before in my mozilla suite. And I do not believe my mothers earthlink client offers spell check. Earthlink E-mail Is based on virus prone outlook. They do have some other convient features that make composing email easy that I have not seen anywhere else.

[5] you are entitled to an OPINION and I respect it.
AOL is not the only program out there that add's ShLt to the start up and system tray. The vast majority of new software does this.

[6]20-30 MB is the total sum of all the components.

[9] I do remember those old banner ISP's (subjective according to you). I did not use one on my home pc.
AOL Does offer broadband over cable the same way earthlink does.

[12] Ok, Next topic. I will not continue this Arguement.

Yes, you can get your e-mail with out starting up your aol software. And from time to time I send or respond to a buisness e-mail at an AOL address. Off the top of my head I cannot remember one.
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
6
81
Here is the definition of ISP from webopedia.com

ISP
Last modified: Friday, March 12, 2004

Short for Internet Service Provider, a company that provides access to the Internet. For a monthly fee, the service provider gives you a software package, username, password and access phone number. Equipped with a modem, you can then log on to the Internet and browse the World Wide Web and USENET, and send and receive e-mail.

In addition to serving individuals, ISPs also serve large companies, providing a direct connection from the company's networks to the Internet. ISPs themselves are connected to one another through Network Access Points (NAPs).

ISPs are also called IAPs (Internet Access Providers).
http://webopedia.com/TERM/I/ISP.html

AOL and The others you discredited fit this description.
 

Demo24

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
8,356
9
81
AOL is also really freakin hard to get rid of to! But the somewhat convient thing is you get about 2 or 3 months free cause their trying not to lose ya :p I will say AOL is a lot nicer on broadband though :)

Plus is I keep getting lots of free and inovative CD cases :D
 

artikk

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2004
4,172
1
71
Originally posted by: Googer
Originally posted by: russianpower
aol is only ok for comp. noobs and computer iliterates.

You can log on to aol right now and get into an informed discussion about any computer topic you could imagine in one of their chat rooms.

I have seen some college professors that teach in technology with aol email address, are they considerd noobs?

Aol provides great customer service and their software is designed for people who just to want to use/surf internet. For more advanced people, opera/firefox is the answer.There always exceptions.;)
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
6
81
I have never used the aol browser for internet surfing and have always relied on either opera, netscape and mozilla (since version .4) for web browsing. Road Runner is my primary isp. But I like AOL for getting news and headlines among other features.
 

monk3y

Lifer
Jun 12, 2001
12,699
0
76
No personal experience... but from what I've seen, AOL ruins computers. No clue how it does it, but all the girls I know have AOL and all their computers are JACKED UP!
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
6
81
One of the strongest features aol is known for is providing content that is not found with other isp's.