Anything you would like to see added to the AT vid FAQ?

[BenSkywalker]

Besides some of the articles in need of updating, is there anything anyone would like to see added to the AnandTech Video FAQs? Anisotropic and AA updates are planned along with an overhaul to the overclocking FAQ and I was thinking of adding some basic shader coverage just to get the general idea across. This isn't about hot topic of the day as these likely won't be updated again for some time, no use talking about anything driver relates unless it has to do with enabling some feature on the board(ie- AA, AF, OCing, no driver cheats, hacks or bugs as they could change at any point).

Also, to eliminate any fears of bias tainting these I will be PMing them off to a few respected people viewed to be in the 'other camp' from myself to make sure that it comes off as fairly as possible(I haven't contacted them yet, but I'm sure they know who they are if they are reading this).

I was considering the advantages of 256MB over 128MB for vid cards including explaining why it is more important to nVidia based boards then ATi, but that is mainly only as it seems to be coming up fairly frequently and it seems like a small group of people keep having to explain it out over and over. If people don't think it is required, I'll save my time

Any suggestion greatly appreciated.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Maybe a big table of all the part numbers 4xxx-5xxx nvidia and 7xxx-9xxx ATI and how they perform and interrelate, as touched on in threads like this. It gets confusing trying to remember which ti4800 is the same as a 4200 and which 9xxx is a renumbered 8500. Maybe even including the geforce3 line to help people decide whether a used gf3 is a better buy than a new fx5200 non-ultra.

To prevent partisan attacks on the FAQ, by "perform" I mean comaparing only nvidia to nvidia and ATI to ATI, e.g. a ti42000 is faster than an fx5200 for dx8, not getting into comparing 9800 vs. fx5900.

The 128-vs-256 explanation sounds good to me, especially for pointing out to ATI buyers that they probably shouldn't spend the extra $100.

 

[Harabecw]

The 128 vs 256MB issue should be addressed, IMO, as people see today's R9800, both versions and write it off as "no card will need more than 128MB for a while".

Also I'm with simmons, there should be a table listing the top versions, then going down (5900->5600->5200 etc.) showing how the card is castrated, then how it performs against the older generation.

 

[sash1]

haha finally! I suggested updating the FAQ about a year ago. Glad you heard my prayers Ben.

'course I don't really care much now, I had just wanted to add some stuff in hopes that people would quit asking the same darn questions 10 times per day!

~Aunix

 

[BoomAM]

I`d say make it as conprehensive as possible, prehaps including info on forthcoming standards, like PCI Express interfaces and PS/VS 3.0, so it doesnt get out dated quickly.
A table at the end that has the full specs of each card from a GF256 upwards would be good. And a performance test between them all, like toms vga charts.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

"A table at the end that has the full specs of each card from a GF256 upwards would be good. And a performance test between them all, like toms vga charts. "

I second that ... undoubtedly, this would represent killer information. It'll take work, but once it's done, it would be a major point of attraction for the site, because many people from other forums - not just AT - are looking for this "definitive" info.

 

[rbV5]

How about including other important aspects of PC video:

*HTPC timings, software, media players, frontends, ect.
*Displays
*Video Capture, Encoding and formats.
*HDTV, DT, and SD.
*Emulation and MAME

Good thinkin' Ben

 

[Schadenfroh]

that radeon 9x will work in windows 98
that TruForm is in the hardware in 8500 versus software in 9500+

 

[MemberSince97]

Hi Ben..

How about a faq on properly uninstalling ATI/Nvidia Drivers. Since so many folks seem to have driver remanents leftover they tend to blame it on the hardware. utilities like Driver/Cab Cleaner are highly effective and simple provided the user has average PC knowledge skills. The reason to use such a utility is that some of the aforementioned companies uninstallers do not always complete the task...We don't want to hose peoples systems but we dont want to badmouth good hardware either.... JMHO...

 

[BenSkywalker]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys and keep them coming

Most of your suggestions will be covered, although there is some things I can't do-

And a performance test between them all, like toms vga charts.

Sorry but, I don't own all the cards unfortunately. I don't work for AT, I'm doing this in my spare time out of my house. I do like the per board break down idea with lists of all the cards and their features however, so that is in the plans as of right now.

I`d say make it as conprehensive as possible, prehaps including info on forthcoming standards, like PCI Express interfaces and PS/VS 3.0, so it doesnt get out dated quickly.

That's in, hadn't even thought about looking at PS/VS3.0 but it does make sense seeing that this will be around for a while. Same with PCI Express.

How about a faq on properly uninstalling ATI/Nvidia Drivers.

Doh! I can't believe I never thought of that.... An excellent idea and will certainly be included.

How about including other important aspects of PC video:

1-HTPC timings, software, media players, frontends, ect.
2-Displays
3-Video Capture, Encoding and formats.
4-HDTV, DT, and SD.
5-Emulation and MAME

#1- I'm far removed from an expert on these things, although if you have some spare time

#2- Sure, which aspects? Cover all the bases, or a general breakdown with pros/cons of each display type?

#3- See #1

#4- Perhaps I'm being dense, what is SD?

#5- Touchy subject, that would have to be handled only in the abstract sense with the exception of utilizations that can clearly be demonstrated to be a perfectly legitimite use(this is on Anand's site, don't want any issues arrising from allegations of copyright violation/encouragement blah blah... MAME should be fine as far as I can tell, I think we'd have to leave more up to date emulators alone(even though there are many people who own all the games they have the ROMs for, they are still cause for issue with all of the major players in the gaming industry).

that radeon 9x will work in windows 98
that TruForm is in the hardware in 8500 versus software in 9500+

That will be covered in the features breakdown.

I`d say make it as conprehensive as possible

How comprehensive? I once wrote an eight or nine page(web pages, a lot longer then that if it was printed) article that was over 10,000 words and had twenty or thirty screenshots on anisotropic filtering alone I enjoy being thorough(prefer it over being brief in fact) but I can't quite go to the extremes I may be able to under the FAQ format. If by thorough you mean covering as many topics as possible then that is something I am certainly willing to do although I have a bit of trouble knowing what should be included and what shouldn't be. Some things that are obvious to me may not be to someone else, something that is obvious to anyone reading this thread may slip by even a relatively knoweldgeable computer enthusiast and there are a lot of things that typical computer users would be lost on that my seven year old is familiar with(it can't help but rub off at least a bit ). Should a baseline level of knowledge be taken for granted, or does it need to go all the way down to the core mechanics up to PS/VS 3.0 implementations? Honest questions here, since my site went down I do have extra spare time and I could go the all route and would enjoy doing it if people think it will be useful, but I don't want to write it up if no one is going to find it useful.

 

[rbV5]

#1- I'm far removed from an expert on these things, although if you have some spare time

I'm somewhere below expert myself, but I have a working understanding of some of the technology. I can contribute what I know. We have some knowlegable members here who have helped me out as well. It is something I do everyday.

#2- Sure, which aspects? Cover all the bases, or a general breakdown with pros/cons of each display type?

Yea, Issues like connectivety DVI vs analog, BNC vs VGA. come up quite a bit. Gaming on LCD's and their supported resolutions. Digital Display types for entertainment and connectivety (Plasma, Direct View, Projector, RPTV, DLP and LCD) and ( RGB, BNC, HD-15, DB-15, VGA, component, SCART, composite, RCA, S-video) can be a bit confusing and is getting more mainstream with the PC (HTPC) enthiusiast crowd. What displays are capable of displaying what at what resolution are very important. Upcoming issues like HDCP can make a difference in a buyers decision and there are alot of choices out there.

#3- See #1

I also have some experience here, and I know of several other knowlegable members. I am willing to contribute.

#4- Perhaps I'm being dense, what is SD?

Standard Definition, its still the predominate format broadcast and what you watch using your VCR. Most PC users using NTSC or PAL TV-out are concerned with regular analog TV output.

There are legitimate uses for MAME and emulation and it has quite a following, I'm not up on it though.
I think that FAQ's should start at a very basic level, its the easy stuff that hangs me up when trying something new.

 

[BoomAM]

If theres parts of the FAQ that you want to add, but dont fully understand, then just ask on the forums for help. We have some very knoledgeable people here, and the chances are that you will get a very good responce. Dont be afraid to ask.

 

[DieHardware]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Thanks for all the suggestions guys and keep them coming

Most of your suggestions will be covered, although there is some things I can't do-

And a performance test between them all, like toms vga charts.

Sorry but, I don't own all the cards unfortunately I don't work for AT, I'm doing this in my spare time out of my house.. I do like the per board break down idea with lists of all the cards and their features however, so that is in the plans as of right now.

I`d say make it as conprehensive as possible, prehaps including info on forthcoming standards, like PCI Express interfaces and PS/VS 3.0, so it doesnt get out dated quickly.

That's in, hadn't even thought about looking at PS/VS3.0 but it does make sense seeing that this will be around for a while. Same with PCI Express.

How about a faq on properly uninstalling ATI/Nvidia Drivers.

Doh! I can't believe I never thought of that.... An excellent idea and will certainly be included.

How about including other important aspects of PC video:

1-HTPC timings, software, media players, frontends, ect.
2-Displays
3-Video Capture, Encoding and formats.
4-HDTV, DT, and SD.
5-Emulation and MAME

#1- I'm far removed from an expert on these things, although if you have some spare time

#2- Sure, which aspects? Cover all the bases, or a general breakdown with pros/cons of each display type?

#3- See #1

#4- Perhaps I'm being dense, what is SD?

#5- Touchy subject, that would have to be handled only in the abstract sense with the exception of utilizations that can clearly be demonstrated to be a perfectly legitimite use(this is on Anand's site, don't want any issues arrising from allegations of copyright violation/encouragement blah blah... MAME should be fine as far as I can tell, I think we'd have to leave more up to date emulators alone(even though there are many people who own all the games they have the ROMs for, they are still cause for issue with all of the major players in the gaming industry).

that radeon 9x will work in windows 98
that TruForm is in the hardware in 8500 versus software in 9500+

That will be covered in the features breakdown.

I`d say make it as conprehensive as possible

How comprehensive? I once wrote an eight or nine page(web pages, a lot longer then that if it was printed) article that was over 10,000 words and had twenty or thirty screenshots on anisotropic filtering alone I enjoy being thorough(prefer it over being brief in fact) but I can't quite go to the extremes I may be able to under the FAQ format. If by thorough you mean covering as many topics as possible then that is something I am certainly willing to do although I have a bit of trouble knowing what should be included and what shouldn't be. Some things that are obvious to me may not be to someone else, something that is obvious to anyone reading this thread may slip by even a relatively knoweldgeable computer enthusiast and there are a lot of things that typical computer users would be lost on that my seven year old is familiar with(it can't help but rub off at least a bit ). Should a baseline level of knowledge be taken for granted, or does it need to go all the way down to the core mechanics up to PS/VS 3.0 implementations? Honest questions here, since my site went down I do have extra spare time and I could go the all route and would enjoy doing it if people think it will be useful, but I don't want to write it up if no one is going to find it useful.

What's the point then?

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Well, here's at least ONE thing I'm sure you can do, Ben...

Make a round-up of cards with TV output, and make an image quality comparison. In both 2D and 3D, on the monitor as well as on the TV. Too many times we hear people saying that one card or another can display the best images.

Oh, and another idea. For VIVO cards, a capture quality test would be absolutely great. I mean, some cards can do great capture, without lost frames, and even encode MPEG1 or 2 on the fly, while others can't even do 320X280 without dropping frames and the files looking washed out...

 

[Mingon]

FPS limit for smoothness - I need say no more.

 

[Peter]

AGP compatibility questions ... 3.3V vs. 1.5V/0.8V signalling, power supply ceilings of AGP 1.0 vs. 2.0, slot and card mechanical keying.

 

[Lonyo]

Something about setting up dual displays, either 2xLCD/2xCRT/CRT+TV etc.

Some people ask how to set these things up, so it might be helpful (but you'd need different bits for ATi and nVidia cards).

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
Something about setting up dual displays, either 2xLCD/2xCRT/CRT+TV etc.

Some people ask how to set these things up, so it might be helpful (but you'd need different bits for ATi and nVidia cards).

And how to set up how to use a telly as a second display.
ie; TFT on DVI, Telly on S-Video.

 

[BFG10K]

If you're going to be doing a VRAM comparison then it should be a generic one (ie not just 64 MB vs 128 MB etc) and it should explain what VRAM is, what fills it up and what happens when it's filled up. If you write a "why 256 MB is better than 128 MB" then it'll be obsolete in 6-12 months.

Also I have a bit of spare time now (I'm taking a long holiday) so if you want to shoot off some of your work to me and/or get me to write something, PM me and I'll see what I can do.

 

[BenSkywalker]

These are taking a bit longer then I had hoped, I have three done and am working on the fourth, hoping to make some decent progress over the next couple of days.

Mingon-

FPS limit for smoothness - I need say no more.

Already wrote it, a year and a half ago Link. Not exacting in terms of saying you need X frames for smooth motion, as that depends on the particular person. Baseline is 30FPS with highline being 600FPS(yes, six hundred ). Most people fall somewhere in the middle This one may be updated however, going to see how that plays out.

BFG-

If you're going to be doing a VRAM comparison then it should be a generic one (ie not just 64 MB vs 128 MB etc) and it should explain what VRAM is, what fills it up and what happens when it's filled up. If you write a "why 256 MB is better than 128 MB" then it'll be obsolete in 6-12 months.

D@mnit, I already wrote that one... I did explain how on board RAM is used(buffers, textures, vertex data, shader programs) but it is fairly heavily focused on 128MB v 256MB. I can go back and generalize some parts a bit more and just use the 128 v 256 as an example to illustrate.

BTW- YHPM

I am working on these when I have the time, I'm going to try and have them all posted at once so we can have one big update. These are more in depth then their predecessors, and as such are taking a bit longer then I hoped, but they are in the works. Any more suggestions are still appreciated, it would be great if we could get the most comprehensive FAQ possible that will be useful to AT readers

 

[Stephan28]

How about a faq on properly uninstalling ATI/Nvidia Drivers. Since so many folks seem to have driver remanents leftover they tend to blame it on the hardware. utilities like Driver/Cab Cleaner are highly effective and simple provided the user has average PC knowledge skills. The reason to use such a utility is that some of the aforementioned companies uninstallers do not always complete the task...We don't want to hose peoples systems but we dont want to badmouth good hardware either.... JMHO...

I second this notion including links to these and other video utilities such as 3D Mark etc.

Thanks!

 

[Stephan28]

Oh, and maybe we could have "sticky" forums dedicated to particular video cards?!!?

 

[BFG10K]

D@mnit, I already wrote that one... I did explain how on board RAM is used(buffers, textures, vertex data, shader programs) but it is fairly heavily focused on 128MB v 256MB. I can go back and generalize some parts a bit more and just use the 128 v 256 as an example to illustrate.

Don't forget to include the effects of AGP speeds and virtual texturing. Also few quick calculations of just how easy it is to fill up VRAM might be useful as well.

 

[chsh1ca]

Some info and supporting docs on nForce-derived chipsets and their relation to GeForce video cards, simply because they're made by the same co...

I've had many people ask me or outright say they have bought stuff because it was their belief that the two chipsets were designed to work together.