Originally posted by: Insane3D
Dude....stop..please. This is the most long winded discussion of a simple issue...EVER. You have your opinion....I have mine. I have been doing bios flashes for more than 10 years with no issues. Like I said above...you want to be that careful, fine. It is NOT needed for everyone else to follow such guidelines...if they want to fine.
No offense, but you seem to like to make a simple issue into a big discussion with long winded replies that make you look technically superior. If you want to think you are..then fine by me.
I felt I had to correct the inaccuracies of your post, and explain my corrections, because you didn't seem to understand why they were inaccurate.
(Basically, it boils down to the *fact*, that there is less risk from flashing using a DOS boot disk or a recent-date BIOS's built-in flash support, then using a Windows' flasher. This is not simply my opinion, it is stated on a number of respected technical websites, that if a user is capable of doing so, that flashing in DOS is better and less risky. Many guidelines also suggest connecting a PC to a UPS during a flash procedure, if possible.)
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Ohh..and you use a chip puller to change the bios chip...WOW! I never knew that! Oh wait...I bought one like 8 years ago, and another a few years after that for the newer style chips.
Ok, fine. I was simply suggesting that as an additional tip. I've never seen that suggested or described anywhere as part of the "hot flash" procedure. I've found from personal experience that it makes hot-flashing easier and less error-prone (less risk of bent pins), or some pins not making contact when inserting.
Originally posted by: Insane3D
As for not doing anything in Windows with the bios chip out...you do realize once you get past the loading part of the bios and boot into the OS, the bios chip is DOING NOTHING AT ALL.
Not true. The data stored in the flash ROM is copied to shadow RAM during boot (actually, decompressed, BIOSes expand to a much larger resident RAM image than their ROM size these days), that is true.
However, the physical chip/socket,
is still part of a live circuit. The processor might not be accessing the chip, but if you mistakenly connect or fail to connect some pins, you could cause a hard-freeze at the hardware level.
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Regardless, all your precautions are a moot point if you simply bought a bios savior. Then it would make no difference if the flash got messed up....oh and it's only $20.
You really don't get what I'm saying, do you? A BIOS Savior does nothing at all, to mitigate the risk of dataloss during a hot-flash procedure while in Windows, for example.
Originally posted by: Insane3D
*shrug*
Yeah, exactly. I think that is the most perfect way to sum up how you approach risk-factors during critical operations. Me, I try to be careful and professional about things. You? Well, I'm not going to tell anyone how to do things, but perhaps someone can learn somethiing from my suggestions.
Originally posted by: Insane3D
You strike me as the type of person that is over cautious about everything...ever hear the saying.."No risk, no reward?"
Sorry, I don't see the point of treating PC maintenance and repair, as a risk-filled thrilling experience like skydiving or extreme mountain-climbing.
Originally posted by: Insane3D
Well, I guess I'll give up now, I'm obviously not up to your technical level...so I should quit while I'm behind.
You and I both know that I said nothing of the sort.
Originally posted by: Insane3D
*sigh*
:roll:
PSA:
***VirtualLarry is now the resident Bios expert. Unlike the rest of us hacks, he is a trained professional, and is ultra safe. Your best bet is to take anything he suggests as the "official" and "proper" way to do things.***
Also, all further advice by me should be totally disregarded if it runs contrary to what VirtualLarry suggests as he is obviously technically superior to me and most of what I say is just pure crap anyhow. Plus, my responses are too short and to the point anyhow.
Thanks.
:disgust:
Well, maybe they should... if you consider your methods to be ones that intentionally add a "thrilling risk" to the operation in question.
You should continue to drive without seatbelts too, I mean, no need to decrease the "thrill" of driving, right?
PS. Ever heard the phrase "safety first"? I'm guessing, probably not. That's really the only point that I've been trying to make, this entire time. If you don't agree with that philosophy personally, fine, I can agree to disagree. But at least be honest with other readers of this thread, and admit that you *are* willingly taking *more* risks, by your method, even though it may be faster and more concise to explain.
PPS. Would you go to a doctor's office, and allow them to stick a needle in you, without applying the proper topical antiseptic first? I mean, it's so much more hassle, and complicates the procedure. Plus, assuming that the person keeps their skin clean enough anyways (analogy to a "clean" Windows' installation), there really shouldn't be any (truthfully, "any additional") risk involved.
I'm not trying to claim any technical superiority, I just want people to get their facts straight, that's all.
Especially considering the context in which this was originally brought up, by a relative newbie, then it would seem that the safer procedure should be suggested, because there is far less risk involved for them to possibly screw up with. If you know what you are doing (and I have no doubt that
you do, as well as I or any other technical professional), then a streamlined procedure, even one involving more risks, could be acceptable, as long as one is very careful not to screw up. However, I don't personally trust myself 100%, especially when operating on someone else's equipment, so I try to minimize the risk of failure as much as possible.
Edit: fix - unbolded quote
Edit 2: If anyone doesn't believe me, and wants to find out for themselves, with a second opinion, ask around on the Wims' BIOS forums, about what they think about Windows' flashers vs. DOS/BIOS ones.
Edit 3: For the record,
Insane3D's post, the tenth in the thread, seems perfectly correct to answer the OP's question. I take no issue with that. He obviously knows what he is talking about as well. I just took issue with one major point that I mention below.
Short summary:
How this all apparently got started, was that
MichaelD erroneously suggested loading "Optimized Settings" in the BIOS before flashing. I'm sure that he probably meant "Default" or "Failsafe", because sometimes Optimized sets the tightest memory timings possible for the chipset, which may be unstable with the currently-installed RAM, thus leading to a corrupted flash. I also added my own thoughts on flashing using a DOS boot disk. Among those thoughts, I commented on the relative un-safety of flashing a BIOS from within Windows.
Insane3D then commented that flashing from within Windows was no less safe than flashing from DOS. I took issue with the technical correctness or lack thereof in that statement, thus leading to this whole big mess in the thread, as I tried to explain the technical reasons and possible scenarios why his statement was incorrect, along with me admitting that I had exaggerated the issue slightly with one of my original posts.
I guess if something like this is ever FAQ'ed, then it should cover the simple, fast, but risky method, as well as the complex, slower, but safer method.