Anyone willing to take a swing at this:

[BoomerD]

On-board Sound with higher impedance headphones

I'm sure this has been asked and answered numerous times, but since ASRock is apparently having issues. (can't seem to connect to their site) let me ask here. I was using an Audio-Technica ATH-G1 gaming headset (45 ohms) (without the mic connected) for gaming and watching misc. videos, (Prime...

forums.anandtech.com

That forum doesn't get much traffic. (Last post was December 2021)

I could use some knowledgeable input.
Thanks.

 

[igor_kavinski]

My subjective impression: Sennheiser GSP 300 is very good.

EPOS Sennheiser GSP 300 review

The Sennheiser GSP 300 jettisons the bells and whistles in favor of a better executed package. How does it stack up to the competition?

www.soundguys.com

 

[BoomerD]

Permanently attached boom microphone is a drawback for me. I'd much rather have a GOOD set of headphones. Gaming headsets would be fine...if the microphone is detachable.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Yeah but this microphone stays out of the way. I hardly ever notice it.

 

[UsandThem]

I've never liked the sound of Beyerdynamic headphones, but if you do like them (and you don't want to buy an external DAC / amp), your motherboard's audio ports will limit you to the lower ohm pairs (the 80 or the 32 Ohm versions).

However, there are less expensive headphones that generally rate pretty well for gaming purposes and for music/video, and their impedance is only at 32 Ohm, so your motherboard or phone could easily drive them.

So you might want to take a look at something like this pair for $75: https://www.amazon.com/Philips-SHP9500S-Precision-Over-ear-Headphones/dp/B00ENMK1DW

Or if you want to go big and get an even better pair for $150 new (or $90 refurbished): https://www.amazon.com/Philips-X2HR-Over-Ear-Open-Air-Headphone/dp/B01N5VHLUG/

I own the predecessor to the X2HR (also bought them refurbished on Amazon back in 2013), and they are still going strong and I use them for listening to music while I'm at the PC.

 

[BoomerD]

I'll take a look. Thanks.
As far as I can remember, I've only listened through Beyers a couple of times...and that was MANY years ago in a studio. I thought they sounded hella good...but could have been...other factors playing into the experience.
The 80 ohm version of the DT770 doesn't rate well for listening pleasure...too flat. Designed more for uses like musicians to listen to a backing track or something. :shrug: Beyer also has their 700 and 900 ProX models with 48 ohm impedance...which would work just fine...but the price ($250+) is just more than my budget will stand.

I'm trying to get some kind of info from ASRock on the motherboard's audio output. Apparently they've been having "server issues" for a day or three...

My previous Audio-Technica headset wasn't terrible. Sounded good, hella comfortable, decent cord length, but the in-line volume controller was wonky from the start...and as it got worse and worse...they had to go.

 

[solidsnake1298]

Before I had an external headphone amp and DAC, I was using Sennheiser PC360's (rebranded Sennheiser Game One, rebranded again to EPOS Game One) for quite a while with onboard. Their drivers are based on, I believe, HD558's. They sounded excellent on the onboard audio I was using. Definitely a flat sound signature, but nothing a bit of EQ can't fix. The volume control on the right ear cup is super intuitive. The swiveling, auto-muting mic is convenient and intuitive, in addition to it being a great sounding mic.

The motherboard I had at the time I got the Sennheiser PC360's had a Realtek ALC889 and I remember noticing quite a bit of improvement in sound quality.

They're 50 ohm headphones, so they aren't hard to drive, and can be had for $99 on Amazon. $129 is the normal price, I think. When I got them over 14 years ago they were $300.

 

[solidsnake1298]

I would also like to add that I still have those original PC360's. My daughter currently uses them, while I have the slightly updated (aesthetically) Sennheiser branded Game Ones. Primarily for the longer braided cable.

 

[BoomerD]

Woot has the Beyerdynamics DT990 Limited Edition (black) phones in 250 ohm for $119. Damned good price...for headphones that I just don't think I can use without an external amp.

(NEW) beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO 250 ohm - LIMITED EDITION

(NEW) beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO 250 ohm - LIMITED EDITION

electronics.woot.com

I DID get an offer from Beyerdynamics' service department for a set of refurbished 32 ohm DT990 Edition phones for $125. That's not terrible.
Newegg has the DT770 Pro in 32 ohms for $109, but they have the leatherette (pleather) (replaceable with velour) ear pads. Still.....

I have considered...and they're still on the short list the HyperX Cloud Alpha S gaming headset, but again, pleather ear pads. (replaceable)

HyperX Cloud Alpha S - Gaming Headset

HyperX Cloud Alpha S provides the best gaming headset experience for PC and PS4 with superior 7.1 surround sound and dual chamber drivers.

hyperx.com

I wear glasses, so the pleather ear pads just aren't that comfortable in longer sessions.

 

[BoomerD]

I've never liked the sound of Beyerdynamic headphones, but if you do like them (and you don't want to buy an external DAC / amp), your motherboard's audio ports will limit you to the lower ohm pairs (the 80 or the 32 Ohm versions).

However, there are less expensive headphones that generally rate pretty well for gaming purposes and for music/video, and their impedance is only at 32 Ohm, so your motherboard or phone could easily drive them.

So you might want to take a look at something like this pair for $75: https://www.amazon.com/Philips-SHP9500S-Precision-Over-ear-Headphones/dp/B00ENMK1DW

Or if you want to go big and get an even better pair for $150 new (or $90 refurbished): https://www.amazon.com/Philips-X2HR-Over-Ear-Open-Air-Headphone/dp/B01N5VHLUG/

I own the predecessor to the X2HR (also bought them refurbished on Amazon back in 2013), and they are still going strong and I use them for listening to music while I'm at the PC.

I keep reading about quality control issues with the Phillips Fidelio X2Hr headphones since they were bought out. That kind of concerns me.

Amazon Warehouse has another set of the Audio-Technica gaming headset I just returned. It was OK...not the best, but for $30 (Used, like new) I'm tempted to give them another try.

I spoke to some Asian guy with ASRock's tech support today. He really had ZERO idea what I was asking when I inquired about the motherboard's audio output, what impedance of headphones it would drive, etc. He put me on hold while he dug some numbers out of his ass and told me, "The realtek ALC892 chipset will drive headphones up to 600 ohms with no problem." For some reason, I just don't trust that answer.

 

[igor_kavinski]

What's your mobo model? It's possible that there is an onboard amplifier in it for headphones. Like mine has:

 

[BoomerD]

ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming 4-IB (I Buy Power model) Has the Realtek ALC 892 codec. Not sure about the amp.

Audio
- 7.1 CH HD Audio with Content Protection (Realtek ALC892 Audio Codec)*
- Premium Blu-ray Audio support
- Supports Surge Protection
- ELNA Audio Caps

https://www.realtek.com/en/products/computer-peripheral-ics/item/alc892

All analog I/O are input and output capable, and headphone amplifiers are also integrated at three analog output ports (port-D/port-E/port-F). All analog I/Os can be re-tasked according to user definitions.

• Port-D/E/F built-in headphone amplifiers
• Port-B/C/E/F with software selectable boost gain (+10/+20/+30dB) for analog microphone input

 

[igor_kavinski]

For some reason, I just don't trust that answer.

http://www.chipset-ic.com/datasheet/ALC892.pdf

You are right. Page 82 states 32 ohms max.

 

[BoomerD]

http://www.chipset-ic.com/datasheet/ALC892.pdf

You are right. Page 82 states 32 ohms max.

I don't think those numbers meant 32 ohms MAX. I ran the Audio-Technica headset @45 ohms for over 18 months with no problems at all.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I ran the Audio-Technica headset @45 ohms for over 18 months with no problems at all.

Maybe have a close look at the chips on your mobo? There might be an amplifier chip there after all.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Headphone Impedance Demystified: Do I Need a Headphone Amp?

All you need to know about Headphone Impedance before you splurge that money on a amplifier.

www.headphonesty.com

Pairing a headphone with an impedance of 2.5-8 times higher than the source impedance should yield good results. This recommended ratio is commonly known as the ‘rule of eighths’ and contributes to proper driver control (damping factor). Pairing a headphone with an equal or lower impedance than the source will likely result in unpredictable (poor) sound quality.

Haven't read the complete article but that seems very interesting. Maintaining that ratio would require an amplifier, right?

 

[Dranoche]

The output impedance from that onboard amp (2 ohm) is about an order of magnitude greater than many popular desktop headphone amps (~0.5 ohm to less than 0.1 ohm), but it's still relatively low. You're phone probably has an output impedance of 5 ohm. The motherboard should generally handle high-impedance headphones fine, but you may be limited on volume because of the voltage it's able to provide. If the high-impedance headphones still have high sensitivity then you probably won't even notice any volume issues. Modern onboard DACs and amps are generally decent and will handle most headphones without issue. You're more likely to run into a sound quality issue using headphones with very low impedance, or get unwanted noise because of poor shielding or grounding of other components on the board or in the computer.

I wouldn't worry about it. Buy whatever headphones you want. If it doesn't get as loud as you want maybe then look at an external amp. If quality is your primary concern, an external DAC/amp combo connected to the motherboard through optical is probably the best option.

 

[BoomerD]

The output impedance from that onboard amp (2 ohm) is about an order of magnitude greater than many popular desktop headphone amps (~0.5 ohm to less than 0.1 ohm), but it's still relatively low. You're phone probably has an output impedance of 5 ohm. The motherboard should generally handle high-impedance headphones fine, but you may be limited on volume because of the voltage it's able to provide. If the high-impedance headphones still have high sensitivity then you probably won't even notice any volume issues. Modern onboard DACs and amps are generally decent and will handle most headphones without issue. You're more likely to run into a sound quality issue using headphones with very low impedance, or get unwanted noise because of poor shielding or grounding of other components on the board or in the computer.

I wouldn't worry about it. Buy whatever headphones you want. If it doesn't get as loud as you want maybe then look at an external amp. If quality is your primary concern, an external DAC/amp combo connected to the motherboard through optical is probably the best option.

Yeah...I'm trying to avoid buying an external DAC/amp if possible. The added cost is just a deal breaker for me, and I'll probably be stuck with some kind of gaming headset made for PC use. (not that they're all BAD, some are actually decent)

 

[BoomerD]

Headphone Impedance Demystified: Do I Need a Headphone Amp?

All you need to know about Headphone Impedance before you splurge that money on a amplifier.

www.headphonesty.com

Haven't read the complete article but that seems very interesting. Maintaining that ratio would require an amplifier, right?

Good article. Much of it made my head hurt...but I THINK I gleaned some useful info...maybe.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Best headphones under $100

From studio headphones to workout headphones, we've made sure to address multiple categories when it comes to the best headphones under $100.

www.soundguys.com

Grado SR60x Review (on ear headphone)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Grado SR60x on ear, open back headphone. It was kindly sent to me by a member and costs US $99 on Amazon. The classic look of Grado is paradoxically timeless: It takes me back to 1990s when I started to manage the signal processing team at...

www.audiosciencereview.com

What about Grado?

 

[BoomerD]

Best headphones under $100

From studio headphones to workout headphones, we've made sure to address multiple categories when it comes to the best headphones under $100.

www.soundguys.com

Grado SR60x Review (on ear headphone)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Grado SR60x on ear, open back headphone. It was kindly sent to me by a member and costs US $99 on Amazon. The classic look of Grado is paradoxically timeless: It takes me back to 1990s when I started to manage the signal processing team at...

www.audiosciencereview.com

What about Grado?

Did you even read the review you posted? Grados have kind of a cult-following for some reason, but they're not very good headphones.

I'd rather buy Audio-Technica ATH-M50x cans. They're decent. (and on my short list.)

I saw a pair of Hifiman Sundara headphones on Facebook Marketplace for $150...that's half their retail price. VERY nice cans...one of the better "entry-level" planar magnetic headphones from Hifiman, but they're about 3 hours away.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Did you even read the review you posted?

This is why I mentioned Grado:

With all of this in place, I enjoyed listening to the SR60x. Yes, the highs were still a bit artificial and edgy if I can call them that. But there was also something about this open back headphone that surprises at times with how it sounds.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Hifiman Sundara headphones

I bought the HE400se with much glee. When I listened to them the first time, they sounded "clinical". My word for not that fun or special. Based on that first impression, I don't feel like listening to them again. I have the DT 990 Pro. Got them cheap used for about $75. They sound too sharp. The two headphones that impressed me from the get-go are Samson SR850 and the Sennheiser GSP 300. Only reason I'm not using the SR850 is that they are heavier. But if I want to enjoy some laid back listening experience, they would be my first choice.

 

[BoomerD]

I bought the HE400se with much glee. When I listened to them the first time, they sounded "clinical". My word for not that fun or special. Based on that first impression, I don't feel like listening to them again. I have the DT 990 Pro. Got them cheap used for about $75. They sound too sharp. The two headphones that impressed me from the get-go are Samson SR850 and the Sennheiser GSP 300. Only reason I'm not using the SR850 is that they are heavier. But if I want to enjoy some laid back listening experience, they would be my first choice.

Have you "broken in" the Hifiman or DT990? AFAIR, both sets of headphones need at least 50 hours to get to their sweet spots. Are the Hifiman HE400SE heavy? I've read lots of reports that the variants on them are heavy as hell...at least in the hand, not so much on the head.

 

[igor_kavinski]

DT990 is used so I assume it's already broken in? Didn't ask the previous owner before buying how long he had used them.

Tried on the HE400se just now. Their weight is balanced (I think the GSP 300 may be heavier). Build quality is great. Seems more expensive than what I paid for them. Seemed very comfortable and easy fit for my head. I may have to break them in then...

EDIT: Just weighed the HE400se and GSP 300 in my hands. Yeah, the HE400se is slightly heavier but remarkably light considering the amount of metal used in its construction.