Anyone seen an Athlon II X4 610e low-power quad-core CPU for sale anywhere?

[VirtualLarry]

I recall seeing this on on AMD's roadmaps, but it seems hard to find.

 

[LoneNinja]

There are reviews of it out, but I've never seen any of the e series at newegg or the likes. Amazon has the 610e, but they're charging $155 for it.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Usually ships in 2 to 5 weeks
Eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping.

It's not in stock at Amazon.com either, it's some sort of pre-order.

 

[LoneNinja]

Sorry, I don't buy from Amazon and didn't catch that part. I did a little more searching around but everyone either has it on back order, direct ship from manufacturer, or call for availability. I have a feeling these parts are primarily OEM or something.

 

[Jovec]

I have a feeling these parts are primarily OEM or something.

I doubt it. The price premium for an "e" part is probably more than what it would cost to upgrade the PS and cooling in an OEM system.

Actually, I'm not sure what sort of market these "e" CPUs have other than binning to increase AMD profits.

 

[KyrosKrane]

Low-power, low-heat applications. This CPU category is perfect for heavy-duty HTPCs, such as roll-your-own DVRs. With wattage that low, you can get away with a passive cooler. Consider this PC built by Maximum PC:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/how_build_ultimate_3d_home_theater_pc

I'm actually building that (or something pretty close to it), and I've been hunting for a 610e for a couple of weeks now. No luck. All I can find is a 605e at buy.com.

 

[Rifter]

im buying one for my HTPC as soon as i can get my hands on one.

 

[DrMrLordX]

AMD has availability issues with a lot of the C3-stepping Athlon II chips they're released this year. The 610e actually has a PiB part number, so it isn't an "oem-only" release like the C3-stepping X2 220 was (which only appeared/appears in HP/Compaq machines and has no PiB part number), but supplies of the 610e just seem really low. etailers are gouging accordingly.

If the 610e is appearing in OEM machines, it may be in low-profile desktop/media pc units, hence the need for a low TDP rather than extra cooling. However, froogle isn't turning up any oem machines online that feature this CPU, so I don't know what to tell you there; while it's hardly comprehensive, it does turn up stuff like the x2 220, x6 1035T, etc. in OEM machines.

OP, I'd sooner pick up an Athlon II x4 640, downclock it, and undervolt it than pay the price premium for an e-designate Athlon II. So long as your motherboard's BIOS supports downclocking/undervolting, you should be just fine; all you need to do is hit a stock vcore of 1.25v or lower, and that should be doable. You can spend the money you'd save by doing this on an HSF like the Mugen 2 (if it'll fit) or something a bit smaller and try for some silent/passive cooling.

 

[nyker96]

from the reviews, this chip oc about the same as older generation x4s like 1,52v get you about 3,7. I'd say soso, but amd low power chips hardly ever get better oc than regular stuff, just hoped this one would be 'more exciting'.

 

[DrMrLordX]

AMD's e-designate chips have been like this since the k8/x2 days when they first started selling them. It would seem that they are not binned for low vid but rather have subtle differences with other CPUs of the same uarch. Usually they don't clock any better (or possibly worse) than the normal chips.

 

[Vette73]

from the reviews, this chip oc about the same as older generation x4s like 1,52v get you about 3,7. I'd say soso, but amd low power chips hardly ever get better oc than regular stuff, just hoped this one would be 'more exciting'.

Probable a laptop based design chip on a desktop socket.
Laptop chips run cooler and use less voltage, but that is based on design, not binning.

 

[aigomorla]

Low-power, low-heat applications. This CPU category is perfect for heavy-duty HTPCs, such as roll-your-own DVRs. With wattage that low, you can get away with a passive cooler. Consider this PC built by Maximum PC:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/how_build_ultimate_3d_home_theater_pc

I'm actually building that (or something pretty close to it), and I've been hunting for a 610e for a couple of weeks now. No luck. All I can find is a 605e at buy.com.

very misleading article on the cooling potential.

Guys... he's partially correct, using a 65W sink on a 45W cpu will give you room, but its not the only number you look at when your calculating / planning a passive system.

passive systems have a very nasty enemy called ambient.
And even the slight change in ambients can break passive systems.

If this is going inside a cabinet i would never recommend a passive system unless you can get air though your cabinet.

 

[LoneNinja]

very misleading article on the cooling potential.

Guys... he's partially correct, using a 65W sink on a 45W cpu will give you room, but its not the only number you look at when your calculating / planning a passive system.

passive systems have a very nasty enemy called ambient.
And even the slight change in ambients can break passive systems.

If this is going inside a cabinet i would never recommend a passive system unless you can get air though your cabinet.

With how quiet 120mm fans are at low rpm I would never recommend passive to anyone. lol

 

[KyrosKrane]

If this is going inside a cabinet i would never recommend a passive system unless you can get air though your cabinet.

In my case, it's not a closed cabinet; rather it's an airy shelf on the table under the TV, open on all sides (except top and bottom, obviously).

That's also the reason I'm concerned about sound; I'm pretty sensitive to noise, particularly in a quiet room. I can't just muffle a noisy fan/system behind a closed cabinet door. Yes, I know, I most likely won't notice even a howitzer-size fan when the TV is going, but for the rest of the time, it matters. When I get up late at night to go to bed, I can hear my PC's fans from two rooms away. I don't want this HTPC to be like that.

 

[cbn]

AMD has availability issues with a lot of the C3-stepping Athlon II chips they're released this year. The 610e actually has a PiB part number, so it isn't an "oem-only" release like the C3-stepping X2 220 was (which only appeared/appears in HP/Compaq machines and has no PiB part number), but supplies of the 610e just seem really low. etailers are gouging accordingly.

If the 610e is appearing in OEM machines, it may be in low-profile desktop/media pc units, hence the need for a low TDP rather than extra cooling. However, froogle isn't turning up any oem machines online that feature this CPU, so I don't know what to tell you there; while it's hardly comprehensive, it does turn up stuff like the x2 220, x6 1035T, etc. in OEM machines.

OP, I'd sooner pick up an Athlon II x4 640, downclock it, and undervolt it than pay the price premium for an e-designate Athlon II. So long as your motherboard's BIOS supports downclocking/undervolting, you should be just fine; all you need to do is hit a stock vcore of 1.25v or lower, and that should be doable. You can spend the money you'd save by doing this on an HSF like the Mugen 2 (if it'll fit) or something a bit smaller and try for some silent/passive cooling.

So this part comes from the same wafer as a desktop part? (I was wondering if something like this actually came from a laptop wafer).

EDIT: http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/aii_640_aii_610e/11.html (Here is an interesting article comparing 610e to a 640 Propus. Notice the good undervolting potential on 610e.)

 

[DrMrLordX]

I do not think the 610e comes from the same wafer as other Propus chips. If anyone who has experience with the fabs that produce 610es can prove me wrong, please do, because it would be a positive learning experience (despite making me look horribly misinformed).

But it is my understanding that the e-designate chips come from their own wafers.

Sadly, they did not try undervolting the 640 in that NeoSeeker article. I would like to see how it would fare vs the 610e in the undervolting department.

 

[evolucion8]

In my case, it's not a closed cabinet; rather it's an airy shelf on the table under the TV, open on all sides (except top and bottom, obviously).

That's also the reason I'm concerned about sound; I'm pretty sensitive to noise, particularly in a quiet room. I can't just muffle a noisy fan/system behind a closed cabinet door. Yes, I know, I most likely won't notice even a howitzer-size fan when the TV is going, but for the rest of the time, it matters. When I get up late at night to go to bed, I can hear my PC's fans from two rooms away. I don't want this HTPC to be like that.

Damn, that's worrysome, try to buy some Antec Blue 120mm fans (Like the one that comes with the Antec 900 case) They're so silent that even at nighttime, I can't hear it and the PC stands about two feet from my bed (And certainly I'm not a deaf person, I scored A+ in my hearing tests, )

 

[KyrosKrane]

Damn, that's worrysome, try to buy some Antec Blue 120mm fans (Like the one that comes with the Antec 900 case) They're so silent that even at nighttime, I can't hear it and the PC stands about two feet from my bed (And certainly I'm not a deaf person, I scored A+ in my hearing tests, )

Heh, it's not that. I have some Gentle Typhoons in the PC, but I had some heating issues (despite not overclocking!) and had to jam a bucketload of them into the PC to get it stable. The end result is that the PC fan noise is quite audible.

 

[veri745]

I do not think the 610e comes from the same wafer as other Propus chips. If anyone who has experience with the fabs that produce 610es can prove me wrong, please do, because it would be a positive learning experience (despite making me look horribly misinformed).

But it is my understanding that the e-designate chips come from their own wafers.

Sadly, they did not try undervolting the 640 in that NeoSeeker article. I would like to see how it would fare vs the 610e in the undervolting department.

It depends on what you mean by "their own wafer". The 'e' chips are the same die as everything else, it just comes down to binning. Now, entire wafers may be hotter or colder than others, so some wafers may be better for lower power than others, but the design and whatnot are the same.

 

[cbn]

It depends on what you mean by "their own wafer". The 'e' chips are the same die as everything else, it just comes down to binning. Now, entire wafers may be hotter or colder than others, so some wafers may be better for lower power than others, but the design and whatnot are the same.

So does that mean a Phenom II x4 x920 "Black edition" laptop part comes from a desktop die also? (It is essentially a 45 watt 2.3 Ghz Athlon II x4 with an unlocked multiplier since the laptop Phenom IIs don't come with L3 cache.)

Athlon II x4 610e= 45 watt 2.4 Ghz Athlon II x4 (with locked multiplier)
Phenom II x4 Laptop "Black edition" x620= 45 watt 2.3 Ghz Athlon x4 (with unlocked multiplier)

 

[cbn]

I
Sadly, they did not try undervolting the 640 in that NeoSeeker article. I would like to see how it would fare vs the 610e in the undervolting department.

I agree. I would also liked to have see the 610e over-volted (since both the 640 and 610e were using the same mainboard in that review).

It would have been a good prelude to the upcoming Black Edition laptop launch (which I am very curious to see how OEMs implement considering how well Core i7-640um does).

 

[DrMrLordX]

Now, entire wafers may be hotter or colder than others, so some wafers may be better for lower power than others, but the design and whatnot are the same.

That's what I was thinking of, but your terminology seems to be painting the picture a bit better.

 

[KyrosKrane]

Well, this CPU is finally starting to show up at retail. Buy.com has a few in stock, and some other Internet retailers are starting to carry it too.