I'm going to be putting new brakes on my car and was wondering if the extra ~100 dollars is justified? (am I going to see a 80% life increase for the 80% price increase?) Any links to data or anything would be great.
Anyone know the life difference between premium and economy brakes?
- Thread starter Cattlegod
- Start date
cardiac
Platinum Member
- Oct 9, 1999
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If you are doing them yourself, there should only be about a $30-40 difference in price, but it does vary from vehicle to vehicle.
The difference is that the economy pads are glued to the back plate where the premium pads are riveted (Most of the time). The premium pads are ceramic sometimes, too....
If you are keeping the car for more than a year, I'd go with the premium pads. I do.
Bob
The difference is that the economy pads are glued to the back plate where the premium pads are riveted (Most of the time). The premium pads are ceramic sometimes, too....
If you are keeping the car for more than a year, I'd go with the premium pads. I do.
Bob
You kind of have to go brand by brand on these things if you REALLY want the best pads for your needs.
For example, I could go down to Les Schwab and ask them to put "premium" tires on my car. They would put fairly good tires on.
Or, if I was more of an enthusiast(
), I'd pick out an exact brand and model, and buy them from discounttiredirect or something.
There are all kinds of brake pads. Vital factors include such things as initial bite (when cold), fade resistance (important for towing or HARD driving, pretty much any pad tends to be OK for your average person), "operating temperature" (not really important for your average driver, who has cold brakes all the time...more important if you're deciding between autocross or full track pads), braking power at operating temperature, pad "feel", noise, dust, price, and life.
Full-out track pads are kind of scary on the street. They have almost NO bite until they get hot, and then they'll put your face through the windshield. You have to keep them hot, though...which basically means going around the racetrack and braking at every corner. They won't fade on you, but they tend to be noisy, dusty, often pricey, and some of them tear up your rotors.
More mild autosports pads (Porterfield R4S comes to mind) are designed to be streetable in that they brake OK when cold, but they get much better when the brakes are warm, and have more fade resistance than "normal" pads. They're also going to be a bit more "civilized" in terms of noise, dust, and life. Still, only driving enthusiasts need apply.
Then we get to your consumer-level pads. Since your average person shops by price, and life, don't expect very powerful brakes, don't expect great fade resistance, and don't expect great brake feel, especially once they get warm.
My admittedly biased opinion: If you just want pads that work and don't want to spend much, get the cheap crap. College students and most commuters fall into this crowd. If you want pads that have that extra edge of braking performance and will be less prone to failure (which is rare for any pad, mind you), spend the extra $$$ for a "premium" pad. Don't bank on them lasting all that much longer, but rest confident in your superior and more reliable braking system. Don't go to the racetrack, though. If you really want good brakes, get something that's branded and performance oriented, but do your research so you don't buy full-out track pads and hate them.
That said, the vast majority of people aren't nearly involved enough in driving to notice a huge difference.
For example, I could go down to Les Schwab and ask them to put "premium" tires on my car. They would put fairly good tires on.
Or, if I was more of an enthusiast(
), I'd pick out an exact brand and model, and buy them from discounttiredirect or something.There are all kinds of brake pads. Vital factors include such things as initial bite (when cold), fade resistance (important for towing or HARD driving, pretty much any pad tends to be OK for your average person), "operating temperature" (not really important for your average driver, who has cold brakes all the time...more important if you're deciding between autocross or full track pads), braking power at operating temperature, pad "feel", noise, dust, price, and life.
Full-out track pads are kind of scary on the street. They have almost NO bite until they get hot, and then they'll put your face through the windshield. You have to keep them hot, though...which basically means going around the racetrack and braking at every corner. They won't fade on you, but they tend to be noisy, dusty, often pricey, and some of them tear up your rotors.
More mild autosports pads (Porterfield R4S comes to mind) are designed to be streetable in that they brake OK when cold, but they get much better when the brakes are warm, and have more fade resistance than "normal" pads. They're also going to be a bit more "civilized" in terms of noise, dust, and life. Still, only driving enthusiasts need apply.
Then we get to your consumer-level pads. Since your average person shops by price, and life, don't expect very powerful brakes, don't expect great fade resistance, and don't expect great brake feel, especially once they get warm.
My admittedly biased opinion: If you just want pads that work and don't want to spend much, get the cheap crap. College students and most commuters fall into this crowd. If you want pads that have that extra edge of braking performance and will be less prone to failure (which is rare for any pad, mind you), spend the extra $$$ for a "premium" pad. Don't bank on them lasting all that much longer, but rest confident in your superior and more reliable braking system. Don't go to the racetrack, though. If you really want good brakes, get something that's branded and performance oriented, but do your research so you don't buy full-out track pads and hate them.
That said, the vast majority of people aren't nearly involved enough in driving to notice a huge difference.
If you dont race, semi-metallic oem or maybe mild performance pads and brembo blanks(if you feel like replaicng the rotors) are optimal. Theres no fade to worry about in any street conditions and semi metallic's properties are good fro everyday use.
Just avoid the absolute cheapest. I found that the cheapest pads on some cars are not metallic, but organic material and that's just pushing it, especially when semi metallic is just $10 more.
Just avoid the absolute cheapest. I found that the cheapest pads on some cars are not metallic, but organic material and that's just pushing it, especially when semi metallic is just $10 more.
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
If you think anyone can tell you what a premium vs economy brake difference is knowing nothing more...I'd stick with the premium.
Usually it's more about noise and dust...but without knowing what you are looking at exactly they could be selling you the same pad and one they just use anti-squeek on.
Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
- 12,832
- 2,618
- 136
<--shadetree mechanic level only, but done plenty of brake jobs
The warranties are usually different, but for everyday use I've always been satisfied with the ordinary level pads (as opposed to premium).
I'm also surprised at the $100 difference-that seems way too much. How much are the pads costing you? Could you buy 2 or 3 sets of the ordinary ones for the price difference?
The warranties are usually different, but for everyday use I've always been satisfied with the ordinary level pads (as opposed to premium).
I'm also surprised at the $100 difference-that seems way too much. How much are the pads costing you? Could you buy 2 or 3 sets of the ordinary ones for the price difference?
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
- Jun 8, 2001
- 9,574
- 2
- 76
Originally posted by: jagec
You kind of have to go brand by brand on these things if you REALLY want the best pads for your needs.
For example, I could go down to Les Schwab and ask them to put "premium" tires on my car. They would put fairly good tires on.
Or, if I was more of an enthusiast(
There are all kinds of brake pads. Vital factors include such things as initial bite (when cold), fade resistance (important for towing or HARD driving, pretty much any pad tends to be OK for your average person), "operating temperature" (not really important for your average driver, who has cold brakes all the time...more important if you're deciding between autocross or full track pads), braking power at operating temperature, pad "feel", noise, dust, price, and life.
Full-out track pads are kind of scary on the street. They have almost NO bite until they get hot, and then they'll put your face through the windshield. You have to keep them hot, though...which basically means going around the racetrack and braking at every corner. They won't fade on you, but they tend to be noisy, dusty, often pricey, and some of them tear up your rotors.
More mild autosports pads (Porterfield R4S comes to mind) are designed to be streetable in that they brake OK when cold, but they get much better when the brakes are warm, and have more fade resistance than "normal" pads. They're also going to be a bit more "civilized" in terms of noise, dust, and life. Still, only driving enthusiasts need apply.
Then we get to your consumer-level pads. Since your average person shops by price, and life, don't expect very powerful brakes, don't expect great fade resistance, and don't expect great brake feel, especially once they get warm.
My admittedly biased opinion: If you just want pads that work and don't want to spend much, get the cheap crap. College students and most commuters fall into this crowd. If you want pads that have that extra edge of braking performance and will be less prone to failure (which is rare for any pad, mind you), spend the extra $$$ for a "premium" pad. Don't bank on them lasting all that much longer, but rest confident in your superior and more reliable braking system. Don't go to the racetrack, though. If you really want good brakes, get something that's branded and performance oriented, but do your research so you don't buy full-out track pads and hate them.
That said, the vast majority of people aren't nearly involved enough in driving to notice a huge difference.
Out of curiosity, how does this apply to 4WD trucks (F150/1500 series)? Do they help any more or less because the back end is so light?
I think the OP should clarify how these are "premium." Are they designed for race/track/autox or are they premium in regards to life/noise/brake dust?
When it comes to vehicles with weird weight distributions, a few people actually mix and match their brake pads...like, put nice pads on the front end of a truck, and not as nice pads in the back. Or put nice pads in the back of an MR vehicle, and not quite as good pads up front. Don't do this unless you really know what you're doing, of course.
However, it depends on the proportioning valve. This is something which is designed to distribute braking force ("brake bias") such that all four tires will lock up at the same time (for optimal braking), or at least so that the front will lock up slightly before the rear (safer for most drivers). Obviously this can't correct for changing loads, so a proportioning valve which is set for a "lightly loaded" truck will underbrake the rear on a fully loaded truck, and overbrake on an empty truck. If you feel that the brake bias on your vehicle is incorrect for the sort of driving you do, an easy way to "correct" it is to use different pads front and rear. Ideally, of course, you're supposed to actual fiddle with the brake bias directly, and use the highest-quality pads you can find on all four corners.
Due to the safety issue of locking the rears first, most manufacturers tend to bias the front slightly more than is best for optimal braking. I'd imagine that's even more of an issue with a truck, which might get driven around empty a lot. This isn't really a huge issue, since the front does the vast majority of your braking anyway, but if you're concerned, or if you're hauling heavy loads, it may well be a good idea to fiddle with the proportioning valve and/or pads to help your braking. But that means you have to be more careful when the truck's empty...true, ABS should keep the rears from locking, but you don't want to willfully getting into situations where you're counting on a last-resort system like ABS to save you.
Getting back to the pads themselves, pretty much any vehicle can benefit from better pads. The "ideal" braking system is powerful enough to lock all four tires at any speed that the driver wishes to travel. But partly due to cost, and partly due to the skill level of the average driver (who is NOT qualified to threshold brake all the way from 80-0MPH), no real-world braking system is that powerful. Adding better pads can help.
No kidding? Cool. What kind of sensing and adjusting system do they use? Some sort of piezo weight sensor, and a servo motor on the proportioning valve?
LTC8K6
Lifer
- Mar 10, 2004
- 28,520
- 1,575
- 126
Not sure but GM has been calling it DRP, Dynamic Rear Proportioning, and it's not only on the pickups.
"Dynamic Rear Proportioning (DRP)
The dynamic rear proportioning (DRP) is a control system that replaces the hydraulic proportioning function of the mechanical proportioning valve in the base brake system. The DRP control system is part of the operation software in the EBCM. The DRP uses active control with existing ABS in order to regulate the vehicle's rear brake pressure."
I believe there was an earlier version of this on older GM pickups.
I guess once you have the rear proportioning under the control of the computer, you can then add other sensors for the computer to consider, such as the load in the bed of a pickup.
"Dynamic Rear Proportioning (DRP)
The dynamic rear proportioning (DRP) is a control system that replaces the hydraulic proportioning function of the mechanical proportioning valve in the base brake system. The DRP control system is part of the operation software in the EBCM. The DRP uses active control with existing ABS in order to regulate the vehicle's rear brake pressure."
I believe there was an earlier version of this on older GM pickups.
I guess once you have the rear proportioning under the control of the computer, you can then add other sensors for the computer to consider, such as the load in the bed of a pickup.
Be careful of some 'preformance' pad, as others have said here, raceing pads need to warm up, and others will actually wear your rotors much faster. I haven't seen much difference caused by the pads used (as long as you stay away from the cheap crap). I have seen a HUGE difference by going to drilled or slotted rotors. They tend to run alot cooler, which results in the pads lasting alot longer, and brakes performing more consistantly.
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