Anyone here with an old Lennox heater?

Saint Nick

Lifer
Jan 21, 2005
17,722
6
81
It is a Lennox G12. This thing is from 1984. The pilot light went out.

So, I followed the instructions...as follows:

1) Turn thermostat to "Heat" and turn the dial to below room temp (54 brr)
2) Turn off gas valve and electricity to furnace

Wait five minutes

3) Turn on gas valve
4) Turn the valve body to "Pilot" and depress for 60 seconds
5) Turn on power
6) Adjust temperature as desired

Well...I depressed the pilot button for 60 seconds and hear gas running, but when I flipped the switch, it didn't ignite.

What gives? Any tips? The label specifically says don't light with a match or butane lighter because this has a starter on it...
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
So the pilot ight didn't light? Keep the pilot button depressed for up to 2-3 minutes. Some times it takes a while for the thermocouple to open and stay open.

Also don't have any covers off that might have a safety switch on them.
 

Saint Nick

Lifer
Jan 21, 2005
17,722
6
81
Originally posted by: spidey07
So the pilot ight didn't light? Keep the pilot button depressed for up to 2-3 minutes. Some times it takes a while for the thermocouple to open and stay open.

Also don't have any covers off that might have a safety switch on them.

The only cover I have off is the one that allows access to the valve body and stuff, that wouldn't have any sort of safety switch on it, would it? Otherwise you'd never get it to light because the door is on...and you wouldn't be able to access it.

I'm going to try again here in a bit and let any gas in there dissappate. I really don't want to blow myself up tonight.
 

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
1
0
1. Make sure all flue/damper are open (no blockage).

2. Make sure all gas valves are on. Follow gas line from furnace to meter. (appliance valve >> branch valve >> main valve >> meter valve)

3. Turn ignition dial to pilot, and hold down while light up the pilot match/lighter (some will be electronic ignition...tic...tic...tic...tic..., other will be hot surface ignition...red hot glow, or manual ignition). Keep holding down the pilot button for an additional 30-60s, and make sure that pilot flame stay lit after pilot button is released.

4. Turn ignition dial on to "on" position, and turn thermostat up to the desire temperature.

5. Check burner to make sure that it is burning & cleanly (blue flame, no orange flame).

6. After a couple of minutes of main burner burning, the burner should produce blue flame. Check intake air (secondary & primary air) if yellow flame is present, and clean/replace the burner if it is dirty/blocked/damaged.

7. Re insert the access door.

It is very difficult to burn/blow yourself up with just a pilot valve on, because pilot valve generally is running at 1-2% of full burner. In order for NG to ignite the mixture will have to be between 10-14% gas:air, and you will smell gas at 2% NG:air (and it will take hours to fill up what ever volume that the furnace space is in if it is air tight to prevent dispersion, NG float upward in air).
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Maybe the starter is out. I'd light it manually but be careful. Don't go throwing your face up in there. The waiting 5 minutes thing is some kind of reset that tells it to restart from scratch so make sure you're not powering it back on before then.
 

Saint Nick

Lifer
Jan 21, 2005
17,722
6
81
I just tried getting it to go again, but no luck. When I'm pressing down the the "Pilot" button, I should be hearing something like tic tic tic tic? I don't hear any of that...the starter must be out, I guess.

I'm really confused by the verbage on the damn instructions. They tell you to turn the furnace off...if it has an electric starter, then how is it supposed to light (???). They tell you to turn the therostat to heat then below room temperature, but then turn the power to the furnace off :confused: . Okay...then I press down the button and let gas (that I can't smell by the way...is there supposed to be a gas smell?) in there, but I hear no starter or anything...just hear a faint hissing.
 

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
1
0
Originally posted by: om3gawave
I just tried getting it to go again, but no luck. When I'm pressing down the the "Pilot" button, I should be hearing something like tic tic tic tic? I don't hear any of that...the starter must be out, I guess.

I'm really confused by the verbage on the damn instructions. They tell you to turn the furnace off...if it has an electric starter, then how is it supposed to light (???). They tell you to turn the therostat to heat then below room temperature, but then turn the power to the furnace off :confused: . Okay...then I press down the button and let gas (that I can't smell by the way...is there supposed to be a gas smell?) in there, but I hear no starter or anything...just hear a faint hissing.
In order for the electronic ignition to work the air path must be clear. Check to see if damper is open if exist, and make sure that the fan is running if exist (power: damper >> fan >> electronic ignition >> pilot >> main burner valve, and there should be also be a fuse on the line).

It could be that the fused has failed, but there is an indication that there is something wrong/short/lose wire to the damper or fan. It could also mean that the electronic ignitor has failed.

 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
2,438
344
126
Your furnace MAY have a spark igniter based on a piezoelectric crystal. It generates a brief voltage that can cause spark across electrodes, and that spark can ignite gas. This does NOT require any external electrical source. HOWEVER, these devices usually are triggered by the push on the button, and sometimes that push comes well before there is any gas to light. I found this with my new barbeque.The instructions say, just turn the knob from Off to High, and it will ignite itself. It does not. But what I do all the time now is: I turn the know from Off to High, wait a couple seconds, then turn it Off again. Then I immediately turn from Off to High again, and it lights! I reason thusly: on the first turn I open the gas valve and some gas makes its way from the valve along the tubing to the burner where the electrodes are. When I shut off and turn on again, I cause a SECOND electrical spark at the electrodes, but this time there's gas nearby and it ignites.

So, OP, try this: follow their instructions to ensure the system is vented free of gas, etc. When you turn and push the knob, hold it down for just a couple of seconds. Then let it pop up, turn off, then immediately turn back to Pilot and push. See if that gets it to light. If it does not, then you probably need a service tech to figure out why the igniter is not working.
 

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
1
0

I don't recall I ever seen a spark ignitor for the furnace. And, sorry to call DSI (Direct Spark Ignition) as electronic ignition.
 

Saint Nick

Lifer
Jan 21, 2005
17,722
6
81
Well, I Googled around and it has either a standing pilot or intermittent...but I can't find where to light the f'ing thing.

I hear the gas...I don't see where to put my match.

I found this:
http://www.lennox.com/pdfs/man...nox%20G12%20Manual.pdf





After further reading the label...my furnace is an intermittent pilot light..meaning it lights whenever the thermostat calls for heat. But either 1) its broken or 2) a serviceman changed the way it works. when the utility guy came by, he had to light it manually.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,650
14,040
146
Originally posted by: om3gawave
Well, I Googled around and it has either a standing pilot or intermittent...but I can't find where to light the f'ing thing.

I hear the gas...I don't see where to put my match.

I found this:
http://www.lennox.com/pdfs/man...nox%20G12%20Manual.pdf





After further reading the label...my furnace is an intermittent pilot light..meaning it lights whenever the thermostat calls for heat. But either 1) its broken or 2) a serviceman changed the way it works. when the utility guy came by, he had to light it manually.

If it was my house, I'd dammed sure want to know which one it was...and I'd be paying a serviceman to come diagnose the problem and make repairs if necessary.
 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
2,438
344
126
When I Googled the manual for this furnace line, it said there were two versions in use as far as ignition goes. One type is what I would call electronic ignition, or Intermittent Pilot. In this form there is NO permanently-operating Pilot Light, and the manual clearly shows for those models that the several gas control valves all have NO "Pilot" setting on them, although there is a pilot flame. It's just like my furnace - not Lennox. When the thermostat calls for heat there is an ignition sequence that starts with a purge wait (to clear any old gas). The next step is powering on an electric arc between electrodes, and this clearly is powered from the 120 V AC supply to the furnace. It CANNOT be done with the electrical supply turned off. (In OP's case the instructions specifically said to turn OFF the electrical supply while lighting the Pilot Light.) The electrodes are placed near a small jet. Once the arc is established a small gas flow comes from the jet and is ignited by the arc, establishing an Intermittent Pilot Flame. This burns for a short period during which it heats up a thermocouple. If that heat does not happen, the Intermittent Pilot gas is shut off. But under normal operation it does heat the thermocouple and after a short time the electric arc is stopped, the main gas valve is opened, and the gas from the main burners is ignited by the Intermittent Pilot.

Now, many of us are used to older systems where there was a permanently-operating Pilot Light that kept a thermocouple warm to verify its function. To start the Pilot Light you had to turn the manual control valve to "Pilot", extend a lit match in close to the end of the Pilot Light jet tube, and push and hold the Pilot Light button. This allowed gas to flow to the jet, bypassing the valve controlled by the thermocouple that, under other circumstances, would NOT allow gas to flow when the thermocouple is cold. Once the thermocouple was warmed up, it was safe to release the button and the Pilot Light would continue to burn. You then shut all the covers up and turned the main control valve to "On". From then on the thermostat could turn on and off the main burner gas supply, and they would be ignited by the Standing Pilot Light.

OP's Lennox unit says it is different in the WAY the Standing Pilot is first ignited. It specifically says NOT to use a match or external flame to ignite it, because it has its own built-in igniter. Now, that could be an electrically-heated hot spot, but the instructions also say to turn OFF all power to the furnace before starting. So the other option is the Spark Ignitor I spoke of. It causes a spark to jump across electrodes near the Pilot jet because a mechanical stress is put on a piezoelectric crystal to generate a short-lived electrical voltage. This requires no external power supply, but the spark only happens once as the crystal is stressed, usually by pushing or turning a knob, often one connected to the action of opening the Pilot Light gas valve. It appears this system had failed, and the service tech's solution, rather than an expensive part replacement, was to ignore the instructions and use the old manual method of lighting a Standing Pilot. Works OK. OP just has to remember for next time NOT to follow ALL the instructions.

OP, your main gas control valve DOES have a "Pilot" position on it, right? This proves that it is NOT the Intermittent Pilot type that re-lights itself every time the thermostat calls for heat. It IS the Standing Pilot Light type, but its automatic ignitor system has failed. So now you just have to light it manually with a match, but rarely.
 

JHoneycutt

Junior Member
Nov 26, 2016
2
0
1
When I Googled the manual for this furnace line, it said there were two versions in use as far as ignition goes. One type is what I would call electronic ignition, or Intermittent Pilot. In this form there is NO permanently-operating Pilot Light, and the manual clearly shows for those models that the several gas control valves all have NO "Pilot" setting on them, although there is a pilot flame. It's just like my furnace - not Lennox. When the thermostat calls for heat there is an ignition sequence that starts with a purge wait (to clear any old gas). The next step is powering on an electric arc between electrodes, and this clearly is powered from the 120 V AC supply to the furnace. It CANNOT be done with the electrical supply turned off. (In OP's case the instructions specifically said to turn OFF the electrical supply while lighting the Pilot Light.) The electrodes are placed near a small jet. Once the arc is established a small gas flow comes from the jet and is ignited by the arc, establishing an Intermittent Pilot Flame. This burns for a short period during which it heats up a thermocouple. If that heat does not happen, the Intermittent Pilot gas is shut off. But under normal operation it does heat the thermocouple and after a short time the electric arc is stopped, the main gas valve is opened, and the gas from the main burners is ignited by the Intermittent Pilot.

Now, many of us are used to older systems where there was a permanently-operating Pilot Light that kept a thermocouple warm to verify its function. To start the Pilot Light you had to turn the manual control valve to "Pilot", extend a lit match in close to the end of the Pilot Light jet tube, and push and hold the Pilot Light button. This allowed gas to flow to the jet, bypassing the valve controlled by the thermocouple that, under other circumstances, would NOT allow gas to flow when the thermocouple is cold. Once the thermocouple was warmed up, it was safe to release the button and the Pilot Light would continue to burn. You then shut all the covers up and turned the main control valve to "On". From then on the thermostat could turn on and off the main burner gas supply, and they would be ignited by the Standing Pilot Light.

OP's Lennox unit says it is different in the WAY the Standing Pilot is first ignited. It specifically says NOT to use a match or external flame to ignite it, because it has its own built-in igniter. Now, that could be an electrically-heated hot spot, but the instructions also say to turn OFF all power to the furnace before starting. So the other option is the Spark Ignitor I spoke of. It causes a spark to jump across electrodes near the Pilot jet because a mechanical stress is put on a piezoelectric crystal to generate a short-lived electrical voltage. This requires no external power supply, but the spark only happens once as the crystal is stressed, usually by pushing or turning a knob, often one connected to the action of opening the Pilot Light gas valve. It appears this system had failed, and the service tech's solution, rather than an expensive part replacement, was to ignore the instructions and use the old manual method of lighting a Standing Pilot. Works OK. OP just has to remember for next time NOT to follow ALL the instructions.

OP, your main gas control valve DOES have a "Pilot" position on it, right? This proves that it is NOT the Intermittent Pilot type that re-lights itself every time the thermostat calls for heat. It IS the Standing Pilot Light type, but its automatic ignitor system has failed. So now you just have to light it manually with a match, but rarely.[/QUOT
 

JHoneycutt

Junior Member
Nov 26, 2016
2
0
1
Just ran across these posts and am having the same problems with this heater. We finally got the pilot light lot but every time it reaches the correct temperature the pilot light goes out.
Anyone have trouble like this before?
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
69,748
13,359
126
www.betteroff.ca
I would check thermocouple as a start just because it's the easiest. Though furnaces with pilot lights tend to also be less efficient (not because of pilot light, just because of the style of that era). So if it's really old it's worth looking into replacing with a high efficiency, but of course that's a lot of money, like 5 grand or so. The newer ones are over 90% efficient. Even the "older" new ones are about 90. Good indication of efficiency is if it has two plastic pipes rather than a chimney. If you can burn yourself on the chimney, that's heat being wasted. The exhaust pipe on a high efficiency barely gets warm, so you know more of the heat from the fire is being used.