Anyone here use a tankless gas water heater?

[marvdmartian]

The water heater in the house I'm buying is already 11 years old, and I have no idea how good of shape it's in. With the federal rebate being offered until the end of this year for energy star appliances (10% of cost AND installation), plus the $300 rebate from my state for energy star tankless water heaters, it seems like the ideal time to switch.

I was wondering if anyone else has taken the plunge, and gone tankless? What brand/model did you go with, and how much do you love or hate it? Problems? Customer service issues?

Any insight that anyone can give me will be greatly appreciated!

 

[shortylickens]

Nope. We wanted one but couldnt afford it. The size and capacity we needed for our house would have cost about 2 grand. Instead we got a 300 dollar tank heater and it does the job.

 

[Jumpem]

I have a Rinnai. It was $1700 installed. No problems with it at all.

 

[lxskllr]

I have a Rinnai. It was $1700 installed. No problems with it at all.

Do you when you'd expect to get your money back from energy savings?

 

[Jumpem]

Do you when you'd expect to get your money back from energy savings?

I have no beforehand data for comparison. We had to replace the water heater shortly after we bought the house.

 

[lxskllr]

I have no beforehand data for comparison. We had to replace the water heater shortly after we bought the house.

I've only really been hearing of tankless heaters recently. I need to do some reading on them. The idea's intriguing, but my experience with the small sink style has been less than positive.

 

[Jumpem]

I've only really been hearing of tankless heaters recently. I need to do some reading on them. The idea's intriguing, but my experience with the small sink style has been less than positive.

We've never had an issue where it couldn't keep up with our needs.

 

[Modular]

I honestly doubt that tankless heaters can ever make up for their increased cost. My water heater costs me at most, $20 a month. That's at most. Assuming that a tankless gives you a $10/month savings, you need to have it for what, 140 months to make back the difference between a standard $300 tank and a $1700 tankless install. At that point, the tankless will need to be serviced or replaced, and so will the tank, so there's really no savings.

I would venture to say that it's a novelty thing or is only useful for those who have really large families or are building brand new construction. This is not to say that I won't think about getting one when my heater starts going bad, but the only benefit for me would be not having to worry about the bottom falling out and flooding my house. Now that I think about it, they make tubs for that. I guess it's a tank for me!

 

[Jumpem]

I honestly doubt that tankless heaters can ever make up for their increased cost. My water heater costs me at most, $20 a month. That's at most. Assuming that a tankless gives you a $10/month savings, you need to have it for what, 140 months to make back the difference between a standard $300 tank and a $1700 tankless install. At that point, the tankless will need to be serviced or replaced, and so will the tank, so there's really no savings.

I would venture to say that it's a novelty thing or is only useful for those who have really large families or are building brand new construction. This is not to say that I won't think about getting one when my heater starts going bad, but the only benefit for me would be not having to worry about the bottom falling out and flooding my house. Now that I think about it, they make tubs for that. I guess it's a tank for me!

The pro of a tankless isn't necessarily the cost savings, it's never running out of hot water.

 

[Modular]

The pro of a tankless isn't necessarily the cost savings, it's never running out of hot water.

Which is what I was saying. If you have a large family it's nice, but how many people here can honestly say that for the 2 - 4 people in their family, they need more than a 50 gallon tank. Most people don't need one.

When the prices come down, they will make more sense, but for now they really don't have much use if you have a normal sized family.

 

[DainBramaged]

We were going to but for the $1000 it would have taken to buy/install, it would have taken ~17 years to gain back it's cost. Decided against it.

 

[iGas]

Don't be cheap and get a heater with low delivery rate because you are going to be sorry.

Average home with 2 showers/bath, bathroom sink, standard kitchen, clothe washer, dish washer requires roughly 10.5 GPM flow rate for low flow fixtures. Non flow low can be as high as 2X of low flow rate.

That said on demand water heater saving is roughly 10-20% (on-demand water heater sales people claim 30% saving) less than conventional water heater.

Average home water heater consumes 4000-5000 kWh of electricity per year and if your average electricity cost is $0.09~$0.13 per kWh that translate to $360~$650 per year.

It is possible that the saving is anywhere between $36~$$130 per year.

Find out how much water you use and we can guesstimate the hot water consumption (- toilet water, and gardening water). And, post the local electricity & gas costs.

 

[iGas]

We were going to but for the $1000 it would have taken to buy/install, it would have taken ~17 years to gain back it's cost. Decided against it.

How much is the traditional water heater tank cost part ++ labor in your area?

I'm a plumber and I still favor a heater tank.

There are hybrid water heater tank that are available, so as stainless steel tank. Polyurethane tank also available for electric models.

 

[Modular]

Labor on replacing a tank water heater should be close to nothing. The only reason I can see people not doing that replacement job themselves is because they are concerned with a gas leak. So figure an hour at $100. Then the cost of the tank itself, which judging by Home Depot's website, will be around $400-$500 for a 50 gallon tank.

A natural gas unit that flows 7.4 GPM (the most offered by Home Depot) sells for $1,199.00. Assuming that the average plumber needs 3 hours to move all the gas/water lines and re-route the vent duct to mount a tankless on the wall, and you're very quickly at the $1,700 mark.

 

[Kanalua]

I lived in IReland in the late 90s and we had a tankless system...very nice...the model we had you could set the temp right in the shower (digital dials)...was great...

 

[marvdmartian]

Thanks for the answers, guys! Always welcome opinions of others who have taken the plunge, so to speak.

The models offered by Home Depot (Rheem) and Lowes (Bosch) are both okay, but pricey (really sad, since neither store here carries them, just orders for delivery, so there's no overhead cost for them). I've found online sources for the Rheems, that would cut the cost from Home Depot, but that's basically just giving me a 7.2GPM for the price that HD wants for a 6.6GPM (~$200).

So far as Rinnai goes, Amazon carries a 9.4GPM unit for $1063, and I'd likely do the installation myself (got too many plumber friends to pay someone to come in and do it). I'm also going to have to put cutoff valves for both hot & cold water in the WH closet, and cut a hole in the wall for the intake/exhaust vent (luckily, with the Rinnai, they're combined in one pipe, so only one hole to cut).

Figure that even if I had to pay a plumber to come in and make the physical connections (water & gas), I'd be looking at maybe 2 hours, 3 at the most (I'd remove the old WH and get the area prepped.....and any plumber that took longer than that is just lollygagging around, and not working), so we'd be talking not more than ~$1400. Then figure that I get back 30% of that from the Feds ($420) AND $300 from my state, it makes the unit, installed only around the $700 mark. Not really that much more than a tanked unit.

 

[mshan]

Gas water heater is supposed to be quite good option.

Why not let others be field testers for next decade of tankless water heaters and think about tankless again after say another 10 years.

Natural gas is plentiful in North America, and might be a good hedge against ever increasing oil prices once the whole global economy starts to grow again.

I have a State Select gas water heater ( http://www.statewaterheaters.com/ ) am very happy with it. I'd say try and find a reputable plumber in your area and see what brand he installs.

 

[Jumpem]

Gas water heater is supposed to be quite good option.

Why not let others be field testers for next decade of tankless water heaters and think about tankless again after say another 10 years.

Natural gas is plentiful in North America, and might be a good hedge against ever increasing oil prices once the whole global economy starts to grow again.

I have a State Select gas water heater ( http://www.statewaterheaters.com/ ) am very happy with it. I'd say try and find a reputable plumber in your area and see what brand he installs.

Umm, tankless heaters are gas.

 

[mshan]

Oh, what I mean is that if his current water heater is a gas water heater, vs. a current electrical water heater.

 

[NascarFool]

Umm, tankless heaters are gas.

Double Umm, Tankless water heaters are available in electric or gas.

 

[iGas]

If you want greater capacity and think that you are smart/handy enough to tackle a heating boiler mod, then pick up a small high efficiency direct vent boiler (500,000 btu) and install a 3 way mixing valve to bring the temperature down to 140F or less to meet plumbing code & regulations.

 

[Pepsei]

Rinnai is the way to go, and that's not because my uncle was the president for the Taiwan location. he recently retired, but I'm sure if I ask him for one, he'd give me one, but I'll have to carry it myself to the plane. If my memory serves, they're not that big, but I do not know if the model will work here in the states.

I think the energy saving will be huge in colder area. Although everyone in Taiwan have tankless water heater while electric water tank exists, it's a luxury item there for the rich (most people don't know how to use it, they turn it on 30 minutes before shower and turn it off after).

 

[Adul]

Gas water heater is supposed to be quite good option.

Why not let others be field testers for next decade of tankless water heaters and think about tankless again after say another 10 years.

Natural gas is plentiful in North America, and might be a good hedge against ever increasing oil prices once the whole global economy starts to grow again.

I have a State Select gas water heater ( http://www.statewaterheaters.com/ ) am very happy with it. I'd say try and find a reputable plumber in your area and see what brand he installs.

Tankless water heaters have beem around a while. It's used outside the US a lot more in many Europion and asian countries. First time I saw one was in Thailand back in 1989.

 

[imagoon]

Thanks for the answers, guys! Always welcome opinions of others who have taken the plunge, so to speak.

The models offered by Home Depot (Rheem) and Lowes (Bosch) are both okay, but pricey (really sad, since neither store here carries them, just orders for delivery, so there's no overhead cost for them). I've found online sources for the Rheems, that would cut the cost from Home Depot, but that's basically just giving me a 7.2GPM for the price that HD wants for a 6.6GPM (~$200).

So far as Rinnai goes, Amazon carries a 9.4GPM unit for $1063, and I'd likely do the installation myself (got too many plumber friends to pay someone to come in and do it). I'm also going to have to put cutoff valves for both hot & cold water in the WH closet, and cut a hole in the wall for the intake/exhaust vent (luckily, with the Rinnai, they're combined in one pipe, so only one hole to cut).

Figure that even if I had to pay a plumber to come in and make the physical connections (water & gas), I'd be looking at maybe 2 hours, 3 at the most (I'd remove the old WH and get the area prepped.....and any plumber that took longer than that is just lollygagging around, and not working), so we'd be talking not more than ~$1400. Then figure that I get back 30% of that from the Feds ($420) AND $300 from my state, it makes the unit, installed only around the $700 mark. Not really that much more than a tanked unit.

Just something to remember, depending on the age of your house, your flue (the vent to the roof) may not be able to handle the higher outlet temps from the tankless heater. As such, just popping it in can result in a house fire. This being natural gas.

 

[iGas]

Just something to remember, depending on the age of your house, your flue (the vent to the roof) may not be able to handle the higher outlet temps from the tankless heater. As such, just popping it in can result in a house fire. This being natural gas.

???

Most tankless water heater are direct vent/B-vent therefore most existing flues are not going to work. direct vent can be vented directly out door that only require 12" vertical run and the rest can be on a horizontal right though the outside wall. The vent size may need to be increase to accommodates long run if it have to go through severals floors to get to the roof, but that shouldn't be difficult.

Some tankless water heater are 2 vents design (similar to high efficiency boilers) that use PVC/CPVC/ABS pipe for venting.