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Anyone here build speakers (or EE/electronics junkie)? Need some help/advice *UPDATE^2*

Fenixgoon

Fenixgoon

Lifer
*UPDATE #2*:

i had some subwoofers laying around, so i decided to build an isobaric sub. the only problem i have is that i'm confused as to how to mount the sub drivers within the enclosure - face to face (example) or separated by a larger volume of air (example). Is there any preferable configuration?

</update>



*UPDATE*:

well i was able to test out my tweeters (in free air though) and they don't sound too bad! definitely lacking a lot of range because my woofers are on backorder 🙁

new question though: can an active crossover be used after signal amplification? i know they are intended to be used before the amp.


</update>

I'm not an electronics guru, unfortunately, so circuit stuff typically owns me. I have found some useful speaker-cad programs, like LSP Cad, Speaker Workshop, and WinISD (LSPcad and Speaker workshop were both a bit confusing). For modelling my speakers, I've used WinISD to help generate my crossover and speaker setup. My goal is to make a ported floorstanding speaker with a piezo tweeter and two mid woofers

here's a screenshot from WinISD, including its recommended crossover, predicted frequency response, etc.

Thoughts/suggestions? Am I in over my head?


Thanks,

Fenixgoon 🙂
 
You're in over your head 😉 (j/k). Speaker building has two distinct elements you need to master for success: the woodworking / cabinetry, and circuit electrical design. Of course, soldering / assembly could definitely be considered a third element...Sadly, there is really no substitute for hands on experience for any and all of these categories.

Being a perfectionist, I botched quite a few speaker attempts during college by trying to start out too ambitious. Getting a cabinet to look good is hard enough, but then dealing with real-world problems such as port chuffing, and the actual subjective sound quality are completely different. Also, what things such as WinISD don't tell you are how the drivers will behave or sound closer to their breakup modes or SPL compression with dynamic music. Also, drivers almost never match their intended specs before break-in, so you have to plan for things like this.

I think DIY is incredibly fun and rewarding, so don't think for a second I'm trying to discourage you - if anything else, I think you should definitely go for it. I just want you to jump in with both eyes open. I'd start with a very simple project, (single driver sealed bookshelf), and perhaps add some complexity every time (i.e. try a first order crossover before a fourth, two drivers before three, etc). It's all the little things that come up in speaker building that aren't nice or neat on paper you need to have experience with before you start a reference level project. And of course, you'll want to learn how various speaker designs sound, and which you prefer, before you dump all your eggs in one basket. I think you may be surprised as to what actually appeals to your ear, versus what looks good on paper.

With all that being said, your design does look very clean on paper 🙂.

Happy listening.

Rup

 
Don't skimp on the tweeter!

Those motorola tweets are ok for the basement dj box but will not give ideal results in a two way system. Morel makes nice domes that won't break the bank. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Rubycon
Don't skimp on the tweeter!

Those motorola tweets are ok for the basement dj box but will not give ideal results in a two way system. Morel makes nice domes that won't break the bank. 🙂
Click to expand...

i thought a piezo tweeter would work nicely since its operation is essentially entirely mechanical response 🙂

found a nice, well rated dayton tweeter here (it's 6ohm counterpart had 4.5/5 across 4 reviews)


edit: my other issue is that i'd like to keep as much frequency range as possible, because i'd be going from a 4.1 setup (2.1 currently, lack space for the other 2 speakers) with a dedicated sub to a 2speaker setup w/o a sub, at least initially. i have two subwoofers from a car setup sitting downstairs that i could probably use 😀😀
 
new question: the speakers i chose are 4ohms, and putting the two woofers in parallel will give a 2 ohm impedance. should i put resistors in front of each speaker sets to give an 8 ohm impedance for both sets to protect the speakers?
 
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
new question: the speakers i chose are 4ohms, and putting the two woofers in parallel will give a 2 ohm impedance. should i put resistors in front of each speaker sets to give an 8 ohm impedance for both sets to protect the speakers?
Click to expand...

If you're going to do that, you might as well just put them in series.

Just use one woofer per speaker.
 
well i was able to test out my tweeters (in free air though) and they don't sound too bad! definitely lacking a lot of range because my woofers are on backorder 🙁

new question though: can an active crossover be used after signal amplification? i know they are intended to be used before the amp.
 
new question though: can an active crossover be used after signal amplification?
Click to expand...

No.

Speaker building has two distinct elements you need to master for success: the woodworking / cabinetry, and circuit electrical design. Of course, soldering / assembly could definitely be considered a third element...
Click to expand...

With the choices for pre-built cabinets these days, I'd say that mastering woodworking/cabinetry isn't required. I'd the primary element involved with speaker building is proper measuring and crossover designing. The assembly bit is childs play as all one needs is beginners level soldering skill.

And yeah, I'd say you're in over your head. I think going the active route is a good idea though...because once set up, it allows you to tinker with your speaker for as long as you like, in many ways. You don't have to spend $$$ on different crossover parts/values, you can just change the filter on the fly.

If you do want to go passive route, a good driver (for a good deal) for crossing over high (which is what you'd want to do with any of these tweeters) is this one: http://www.parts-express.com/p...cfm?Partnumber=289-106

Hell, it can even be run full-range with fairly good results.
 
Well, I'd just like to put in my twenty-five cents.

I've done a bit of speaker-building, and my firm advice is to forget about designing them yourself - it's HARD. Audio engineering is in some ways almost as complex as, say, wave-particle physics, except unlike wave-particle physics, nobody cares enough to map everything out all nice and neatly.

Those Dayton ND20FB tweeters are good, but have numerous faults. First, they only work well above 3khz - with a crossover point below 3.5khz, they'll sound awful. Also, power handling is poor - you'll want a nice 3rd or 4th-order crossover (18db/octave or more) to keep most of the sound (and most of the power) dealt with by the woofers.

If you want a tried and tested speaker design, go with something at zaphaudio.com. His new budget mini-monitor design can be assembled for maybe $50 a pair if you find the inductors cheap, and will, if it's anything like Zaph's other designs, make a joke out of speakers costing four times as much. (Or, in the case of Bose, ten times as much.)
 
Originally posted by: Cheesehead
Well, I'd just like to put in my twenty-five cents.

I've done a bit of speaker-building, and my firm advice is to forget about designing them yourself - it's HARD. Audio engineering is in some ways almost as complex as, say, wave-particle physics, except unlike wave-particle physics, nobody cares enough to map everything out all nice and neatly.

Those Dayton ND20FB tweeters are good, but have numerous faults. First, they only work well above 3khz - with a crossover point below 3.5khz, they'll sound awful. Also, power handling is poor - you'll want a nice 3rd or 4th-order crossover (18db/octave or more) to keep most of the sound (and most of the power) dealt with by the woofers.

If you want a tried and tested speaker design, go with something at zaphaudio.com. His new budget mini-monitor design can be assembled for maybe $50 a pair if you find the inductors cheap, and will, if it's anything like Zaph's other designs, make a joke out of speakers costing four times as much. (Or, in the case of Bose, ten times as much.)
Click to expand...

unfortunately for me, i've already purchased the parts. however, i think the experience will be the most rewarding part. i doubt my speakers will come close to Zaph's, but that's ok with me (the next set i'll probably care a bit more 😛)
 
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: Cheesehead
Well, I'd just like to put in my twenty-five cents.

I've done a bit of speaker-building, and my firm advice is to forget about designing them yourself - it's HARD. Audio engineering is in some ways almost as complex as, say, wave-particle physics, except unlike wave-particle physics, nobody cares enough to map everything out all nice and neatly.

Those Dayton ND20FB tweeters are good, but have numerous faults. First, they only work well above 3khz - with a crossover point below 3.5khz, they'll sound awful. Also, power handling is poor - you'll want a nice 3rd or 4th-order crossover (18db/octave or more) to keep most of the sound (and most of the power) dealt with by the woofers.

If you want a tried and tested speaker design, go with something at zaphaudio.com. His new budget mini-monitor design can be assembled for maybe $50 a pair if you find the inductors cheap, and will, if it's anything like Zaph's other designs, make a joke out of speakers costing four times as much. (Or, in the case of Bose, ten times as much.)
Click to expand...

unfortunately for me, i've already purchased the parts. however, i think the experience will be the most rewarding part. i doubt my speakers will come close to Zaph's, but that's ok with me (the next set i'll probably care a bit more 😛)
Click to expand...

Which woofers are you using?
 
Originally posted by: Cheesehead
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: Cheesehead
Well, I'd just like to put in my twenty-five cents.

I've done a bit of speaker-building, and my firm advice is to forget about designing them yourself - it's HARD. Audio engineering is in some ways almost as complex as, say, wave-particle physics, except unlike wave-particle physics, nobody cares enough to map everything out all nice and neatly.

Those Dayton ND20FB tweeters are good, but have numerous faults. First, they only work well above 3khz - with a crossover point below 3.5khz, they'll sound awful. Also, power handling is poor - you'll want a nice 3rd or 4th-order crossover (18db/octave or more) to keep most of the sound (and most of the power) dealt with by the woofers.

If you want a tried and tested speaker design, go with something at zaphaudio.com. His new budget mini-monitor design can be assembled for maybe $50 a pair if you find the inductors cheap, and will, if it's anything like Zaph's other designs, make a joke out of speakers costing four times as much. (Or, in the case of Bose, ten times as much.)
Click to expand...

unfortunately for me, i've already purchased the parts. however, i think the experience will be the most rewarding part. i doubt my speakers will come close to Zaph's, but that's ok with me (the next set i'll probably care a bit more 😛)
Click to expand...

Which woofers are you using?
Click to expand...

pyramid 6.5'' pro plus midbass. they seemed to have a pretty good response range and sensitivity for the price.
 
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: Cheesehead
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon


pyramid 6.5'' pro plus midbass. they seemed to have a pretty good response range and sensitivity for the price.
Click to expand...

What size of box? What crossover?
Click to expand...

i was planning on making a 3'x1'x1' box for a floorstanding speaker. crossover is a 0.18mh inductor and 11.2uF capacitor.
Click to expand...

That is not going to work very well at all. If you want to build some cheap speakers, I might be able to help, though - I have something of a surplus of parts.

 
Originally posted by: Cheesehead
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: Cheesehead
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon


pyramid 6.5'' pro plus midbass. they seemed to have a pretty good response range and sensitivity for the price.
Click to expand...

What size of box? What crossover?
Click to expand...

i was planning on making a 3'x1'x1' box for a floorstanding speaker. crossover is a 0.18mh inductor and 11.2uF capacitor.
Click to expand...

That is not going to work very well at all. If you want to build some cheap speakers, I might be able to help, though - I have something of a surplus of parts.
Click to expand...

that's just the low-pass part of the filter. what would you suggest instead?
 
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: Cheesehead
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: Cheesehead
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon


pyramid 6.5'' pro plus midbass. they seemed to have a pretty good response range and sensitivity for the price.
Click to expand...

What size of box? What crossover?
Click to expand...

i was planning on making a 3'x1'x1' box for a floorstanding speaker. crossover is a 0.18mh inductor and 11.2uF capacitor.
Click to expand...

That is not going to work very well at all. If you want to build some cheap speakers, I might be able to help, though - I have something of a surplus of parts.
Click to expand...

that's just the low-pass part of the filter. what would you suggest instead?
Click to expand...

How are you picking your numbers, how are you going to account for sensitivity differences, what about baffle step compensation? How do you know how the 3 speakers will "sum" together?

Welcome to DIY audio...where once you think you've learned enough...you realize there is so much more.
 
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

that's just the low-pass part of the filter. what would you suggest instead?
Click to expand...

You have two options.

First, you could go ahead and learn the massive insanity that is speaker design.

Second, you could use someone else's design, preferably one which has been highly refined.

A good crossover with inexpensive drivers will result in a speaker far superior to more expensive drivers with a poor crossover.
 
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
now i'm building subs. i did have the drivers lying around for free, though, so it's not like i bought them 😛
Click to expand...

Well, you could buy a set of decent woofers and tweeters from me. I dare say I have too many.
 
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