Anyone here a Developer?

[SagaLore]

Working at the largest accounting firm in the state, I see a lot of software needs that are either A. incredibly overpriced, and/or B. missing features, or C. don't exist.

Over the years, I keep telling my wife (who knows nothing that I speak of, but nods any way) that I really wished I had time to write a particular program. Today I finally said, I HAVE to start my own development company.

But I don't have enough experience or education to be able to pull it off myself. Although I have a good understanding of databases, I am still in a learning phase. Even if I hacked something together, I wouldn't be able to support it very well. So I'm going to need people.

To start, I will need 1 database/code developer, 1 web/graphic designer, and 1 sales/maketing director.

But before I dig myself into a hole, I need to know what kind of hole I'm actually digging. I know there has to be at least one person on this board that has been part of a development team. Advise please?

Are developers willing to be paid after a project is completed, or am I going to be stuck paying by the hour with risk that they will bail before the project is completed?

 

[Drakkon]

I'm currenlty working for a development that started out fairly small, currently a team of 4 web designers/developers (html/php/flash/db - my area ) , 2 designers (artists/3d developers), and 1 marketing person+ 2 outsourced programmers (flash, php, db) that arent always on the team (bring them on for speacial projects). Now were taking on projects that make anywhere between 1-2MILLION over 1.5-2 years.
From my experience developers you hire on are never willing to take on a LARGE scale projects without seeing something up front, usually somewhere in between 15-25% up front, and % money at each deliverable (alpha, beta, gold), but this is for projects worth over $10K and there are fixed devlierable dates. I personally on the side however will take on $100-$5K without seeing anything up front, but once i deliver something i expect some sorta payment, at least 5-10%.

as for "bail"ers you MUST write contracts to avoid that. Get yourself a lawyer that is familiar with software issues ESPECIALLY copyright issues, and he should be able to write you contracts to avoid bailing. That doesn't protect you against crappy code which i feel is even a greater problem ive seen, the only thing that can protect you agianst that is hourly pay where you can fire people or close relationships where your with people you can trust.

 

[DT4K]

You know, I was just thinking that what we really need is more software development companies started, owned, and run by people who don't know anything about development.

Sure, that may work in a large company where the top management relies on the expertise of their architects and analysts, but I really don't see how you are going to run a successful 3 person development firm without being an experienced developer first. How are you going to work with clients if you won't be able to discuss their needs and come up with a solution that you can design and estimate costs and time for?

Unless you are just going to be an investor and you are going to put up a large sum of money to get started and hire someone who can lead the company.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: DT4K
You know, I was just thinking that what we really need is more software development companies started, owned, and run by people who don't know anything about development.

Sure, that may work in a large company where the top management relies on the expertise of their architects and analysts, but I really don't see how you are going to run a successful 3 person development firm without being an experienced developer first. How are you going to work with clients if you won't be able to discuss their needs and come up with a solution that you can design and estimate costs and time for?

Unless you are just going to be an investor and you are going to put up a large sum of money to get started and hire someone who can lead the company.

Touche.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I've done a little web programming (ASP, C/C++), but only on an hourly rate basis, and only for people that I knew from my old job. So I can't give a full-time web developer's view on this.

There are risks on both sides: they might do 50-100 hours of work for you then you declare bankruptcy to get out of paying them.

You might be able to get away wth not paying much during the project if either you work with someone you know, or if you put the money due at completion into escrow so the developer knows you won't shaft them.

Another option is to get them to agree to turn over design documents and full source code at the first milestone (this will probably cost extra), then pay a second developer to check that the work is clean and maintaianable. Then if they stop working for some reason you know that some other developer can finish the job.

Most important is to find someone experienced specifically with IIS/.NET/SQL not someone who has just worked through ASP.NET for dummies, or has only done little sites that used Access files instead of SQL server.

If you want something stable, scalable, extendable, maintainable you're better off paying $100/hour to an experienced developer that knows the technology cold than $50/hour to a student who's never tacked a large project.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: DT4K
You know, I was just thinking that what we really need is more software development companies started, owned, and run by people who don't know anything about development.

A good program manager has to understand generally how development works but not necessarily how to do development.

As long as you find good (and honest) developers, they can tell a program manager what is possible, what the trade-offs between options are, and how much work is involved.

My employer (Respondus) was founded by a guy who can't write a line of code, and he started out pretty much how SagaLore wants to. Our applications are now used in over 2,000 universities in 50 countries.

 

[SagaLore]

I contacted a development company out of Michigan - they had a core component that I needed, but I also need some custom features to put on top of it. For a propietary solution - just for our firm - it was around $2,000 which I thought was a good deal. For the most part all of the software I have in mind for resell is not difficult to code or implement. I asked the rep how much it would cost if they developed a software that could be resold to multiple companies, something with a flexible configuration - he said starting price was $15k.

So maybe to play it safe, I should just outsource the development part completely to reputable companies, and focus on just Marketing / Customer service.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: SagaLore
So maybe to play it safe, I should just outsource the development part completely to reputable companies, and focus on just Marketing / Customer service.

Not a bad idea, but be sure to get your rights in writing so they don't come back to claim infringement after your 100th sale.

If anything is delivered compiled, also put in writing (and pay extra if you must) to get the full uncompiled source code, and also work out what kind of internal technical documentation they must deliver.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

If you have to ask these questions, your busines has already failed.

You need to figure out what your software has to do and write down these things in as much detail as possible. Then figure out what technologies are required to get thigns done and beyond that, you need to figure out a timeline. Along with what you want done for various itterations (releases).

But, it's really easy

And expect costs to easily break $1M

Originally posted by: SagaLore
Working at the largest accounting firm in the state, I see a lot of software needs that are either A. incredibly overpriced, and/or B. missing features, or C. don't exist.

Over the years, I keep telling my wife (who knows nothing that I speak of, but nods any way) that I really wished I had time to write a particular program. Today I finally said, I HAVE to start my own development company.

But I don't have enough experience or education to be able to pull it off myself. Although I have a good understanding of databases, I am still in a learning phase. Even if I hacked something together, I wouldn't be able to support it very well. So I'm going to need people.

To start, I will need 1 database/code developer, 1 web/graphic designer, and 1 sales/maketing director.

But before I dig myself into a hole, I need to know what kind of hole I'm actually digging. I know there has to be at least one person on this board that has been part of a development team. Advise please?

Are developers willing to be paid after a project is completed, or am I going to be stuck paying by the hour with risk that they will bail before the project is completed?

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: SagaLore
I contacted a development company out of Michigan - they had a core component that I needed, but I also need some custom features to put on top of it. For a propietary solution - just for our firm - it was around $2,000 which I thought was a good deal. For the most part all of the software I have in mind for resell is not difficult to code or implement. I asked the rep how much it would cost if they developed a software that could be resold to multiple companies, something with a flexible configuration - he said starting price was $15k.

So maybe to play it safe, I should just outsource the development part completely to reputable companies, and focus on just Marketing / Customer service.

Don't expect anythign to be done for you and you only. Beter read the fine print.