I am looking to replace my Lenovo w520 with one. I want something more portable and something that can be docked for use like a desktop, the surface pro 2 seems to fit the needs that I have. Any opinions?
Anyone have a Surface Pro 2? Any reason not to get it?
- Thread starter TheSiege
- Start date
Ravynmagi
Diamond Member
- Jun 16, 2007
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I begin by confessing I've never owned it (had the SP1 though).
SP2 looks awesome. The only thing I see against it is it's a tad expensive. Though it looks like very nice build quality and worth it's expensive price. But there are some interesting alternatives that are slightly cheaper. And for me, I like the clamshell style keyboard docks more than the smart cover keyboards.
SP2 looks awesome. The only thing I see against it is it's a tad expensive. Though it looks like very nice build quality and worth it's expensive price. But there are some interesting alternatives that are slightly cheaper. And for me, I like the clamshell style keyboard docks more than the smart cover keyboards.
Well, I got one a week or so ago after much agonizing (128gb version, Pro2). It's replaced my laptop as my primary portable work device. Brief pros and cons (highly subjective):
Pros:
1. Extremely lightweight and compact, in laptop mode (i.e. with typecover attached). As a tablet seems decent enough to me, though I am used to holding heavy notebooks/books/journals so your mileage may vary. You may have some problem getting it to settle on your lap, but I usually work on a desk so haven't faced this problem myself (though I have tried to experiment, and it doesn't feel that bad, though I wouldn't recommend it for long periods)
2. The display. Woof! I'm not a professional artist and have a basic grasp of calibration and colour stuff, but the SP2 display for displaying text and images is beautiful. Crisply and clearly rendered and video so far looks decent as well (though that's not my main thing). Though I have to say, sometimes, if you're using older software the fonts can be a bit blurry (though I think this is a OS thing).
3. x86: I can't stress how much of a pro this is. The ability and power to run x86 software without having to resort to 'apps' (urgh how I hate that word) just gives you so much freedom of choice. Again, I don't use Photoshop type stuff, but for R (statistics software), LyX, PDF Xchange (too used to it by now to switch) and even old games, this thing is a beaut. Just don't expect to run Crysis or whatever the newest shooter game craze is. I did get Steam installed and running Crusader Kings 2. It ran pretty smoothly for 15-20 minutes before I realized I needed to be working
So its not as if NO newer games are going to run.
4. Battery: more of a 'OK' than a pro, I've been getting around 7 hours on a full charge, which is down from my old system (Thinkpad T420) though of course, given the size of this thing I can't really complain. Can't wait for them to come out with that d*** power cover though.
5. The stylus and OneNote: My gods! OneNote on this thing was a revelation. It's basically almost perfect, the only downside I see is copy pasting from other documents, but I suppose that becomes easier with time. The stylus itself is really awesome (have never used Wacom before) and has replaced the touchpad for me.
6. microSDXC and USB3: I got the 128GB version and was a bit worried about space. The microSDXC is great for carting around music (don't really watch all that many movies, but you could use it for that too) and the USB3 port allows you to hook up well...pretty much anything.
7. Type Cover 2: I got this instead of the touch cover and don't regret spending the little extra at all. I type somewhat extensively on it (though OneNote and the stylus are slowly replacing my old habit of typed notes, so its just for longer papers) and it feels pretty good. Its more cramped than a normal laptop keyboard obviously, so you may need some time to get used to it.
Cons:
1. Windows 8: Urgh. I guess I'm old? I really don't see the point of this thing. Thankfully, it being x86, a few minutes of googling allowed me to install ClassicShell and have a more natural (i.e. the way things used to be in the good ole days ) feel to things. Maybe come the summer I'll have more time to see whether Windows 8 does not suck, but for now, classicshell allows me to pretend that this thing is windows 7. Again, full x86 is a lifesaver here, because you never EVER have to go to that d*** windows store again.
[This is purely a subjective opinion of mine so please don't flame me or attempt to convince me of how wrong I am about this. I probably am wrong and I accept I haven't really tried to get into windows 8, but I am incredibly set in my ways and it just 'feels' weird to have those tile things]
2. Price: This wasn't really a problem for me as I sold off my old laptop and got a student discount on the SP2, but the price can be a downer for quite a few people (and even with the discount, the tag was pretty hefty). If you think of this as laptop replacement than it seems more bearable though.
However, what I find really annoying is the inability to go with a 128HDD/8GB RAM combo. Seriously Microsoft, whats up with that? I don't need 256GB but would really have loved 8GB. 4GB is...fine, but things do get stretched sometimes. The jump from the 128 to the 256 model is pretty steep as well (300 USD) so it really does kind of suck not to have a midway 128/8 GB option. I suppose there are complicated engineering reasons or something. Or maybe its just Microsoft.
3. Lack of upgradibility: Not sure if everyone sees it this way, but for me, not being to add or replace stuff is a major pain. Like the RAM stuff above, would have been nice if we had the option (either on purchase or DIY) to upgrade some components. Again, not a hardware expert, so there may be legitimate reasons for this. I just think it kind of sucks.
4. The touchpad: Yeah, its a touchpad. It has a left-click and a right-click which make a nice, old fashioned 'click' sound when you click them. I have noticed that a new update this week has made it somewhat better. It's...there? You can use it if you have to? This is more an 'OK' than a con, for me at least, but I think some people want more out of their touchpad. Don't expect to play any mouse intensive games with it though.
Overall, a definite buy if you have the money. 128GB seems pretty good storage wise (I got around 90GB once I cleaned everything up and you can get the restore partition to use once you back it up to a USB drive which is another 6 or 7 GB).
Pros:
1. Extremely lightweight and compact, in laptop mode (i.e. with typecover attached). As a tablet seems decent enough to me, though I am used to holding heavy notebooks/books/journals so your mileage may vary. You may have some problem getting it to settle on your lap, but I usually work on a desk so haven't faced this problem myself (though I have tried to experiment, and it doesn't feel that bad, though I wouldn't recommend it for long periods)
2. The display. Woof! I'm not a professional artist and have a basic grasp of calibration and colour stuff, but the SP2 display for displaying text and images is beautiful. Crisply and clearly rendered and video so far looks decent as well (though that's not my main thing). Though I have to say, sometimes, if you're using older software the fonts can be a bit blurry (though I think this is a OS thing).
3. x86: I can't stress how much of a pro this is. The ability and power to run x86 software without having to resort to 'apps' (urgh how I hate that word) just gives you so much freedom of choice. Again, I don't use Photoshop type stuff, but for R (statistics software), LyX, PDF Xchange (too used to it by now to switch) and even old games, this thing is a beaut. Just don't expect to run Crysis or whatever the newest shooter game craze is. I did get Steam installed and running Crusader Kings 2. It ran pretty smoothly for 15-20 minutes before I realized I needed to be working
So its not as if NO newer games are going to run. 4. Battery: more of a 'OK' than a pro, I've been getting around 7 hours on a full charge, which is down from my old system (Thinkpad T420) though of course, given the size of this thing I can't really complain. Can't wait for them to come out with that d*** power cover though.
5. The stylus and OneNote: My gods! OneNote on this thing was a revelation. It's basically almost perfect, the only downside I see is copy pasting from other documents, but I suppose that becomes easier with time. The stylus itself is really awesome (have never used Wacom before) and has replaced the touchpad for me.
6. microSDXC and USB3: I got the 128GB version and was a bit worried about space. The microSDXC is great for carting around music (don't really watch all that many movies, but you could use it for that too) and the USB3 port allows you to hook up well...pretty much anything.
7. Type Cover 2: I got this instead of the touch cover and don't regret spending the little extra at all. I type somewhat extensively on it (though OneNote and the stylus are slowly replacing my old habit of typed notes, so its just for longer papers) and it feels pretty good. Its more cramped than a normal laptop keyboard obviously, so you may need some time to get used to it.
Cons:
1. Windows 8: Urgh. I guess I'm old? I really don't see the point of this thing. Thankfully, it being x86, a few minutes of googling allowed me to install ClassicShell and have a more natural (i.e. the way things used to be in the good ole days
) feel to things. Maybe come the summer I'll have more time to see whether Windows 8 does not suck, but for now, classicshell allows me to pretend that this thing is windows 7. Again, full x86 is a lifesaver here, because you never EVER have to go to that d*** windows store again. [This is purely a subjective opinion of mine so please don't flame me or attempt to convince me of how wrong I am about this. I probably am wrong and I accept I haven't really tried to get into windows 8, but I am incredibly set in my ways and it just 'feels' weird to have those tile things
]2. Price: This wasn't really a problem for me as I sold off my old laptop and got a student discount on the SP2, but the price can be a downer for quite a few people (and even with the discount, the tag was pretty hefty). If you think of this as laptop replacement than it seems more bearable though.
However, what I find really annoying is the inability to go with a 128HDD/8GB RAM combo. Seriously Microsoft, whats up with that? I don't need 256GB but would really have loved 8GB. 4GB is...fine, but things do get stretched sometimes. The jump from the 128 to the 256 model is pretty steep as well (300 USD) so it really does kind of suck not to have a midway 128/8 GB option. I suppose there are complicated engineering reasons or something. Or maybe its just Microsoft.
3. Lack of upgradibility: Not sure if everyone sees it this way, but for me, not being to add or replace stuff is a major pain. Like the RAM stuff above, would have been nice if we had the option (either on purchase or DIY) to upgrade some components. Again, not a hardware expert, so there may be legitimate reasons for this. I just think it kind of sucks.
4. The touchpad: Yeah, its a touchpad. It has a left-click and a right-click which make a nice, old fashioned 'click' sound when you click them. I have noticed that a new update this week has made it somewhat better. It's...there? You can use it if you have to? This is more an 'OK' than a con, for me at least, but I think some people want more out of their touchpad. Don't expect to play any mouse intensive games with it though.
Overall, a definite buy if you have the money. 128GB seems pretty good storage wise (I got around 90GB once I cleaned everything up and you can get the restore partition to use once you back it up to a USB drive which is another 6 or 7 GB).
Last edited:
Zaap
Diamond Member
- Jun 12, 2008
- 7,162
- 424
- 126
Thanks for the review! Very insightful.
I'm still on the fence, considering a Surface Pro 2 vs. a Samsung Note Pro 12" tablet that I've yet to even see. (Waiting until I get my hands on one to make a final choice.)
My thinking is like yours, that I'd have Classic Shell (or similar) installed on it inside of a minute out of the box.
Every time I've played with a Pro2 in the stores, the feel of the pen just blows me away. Closest thing I've seen yet to a full Wacom Cintiq experience in a portable device- which is to say it's as close to the feel of actual drawing pen on paper as has yet been achieved in a device. Each time it makes me lean toward the Surface.
One Note must be awesome on it- I use it on my ancient Motion Computing LE1600 and love it.
I'm thinking I'd go for the 256/8GB model if I do go with a Surface- might as well future-proof it if I'm going with x86.
DUH moment for me: never knew that the type cover has a touchpad.
I'm totally sold on the Surface for the x86 benefits, and as a productivity tool, but what's your experience with it as a consumption device as well? Is it satisfactory just to pick it up as a pure tablet for light web-surfing, comic reading, media consumption? I know it's heavier than most consumption-focused tablets, but in your experience is this that big a con?
(By comparison, I used my LE1600 for years for light consumption tasks (web. email, etc.) as well as productivity, and it's a freakin' brick compared to the Surface.)
zerogear
Diamond Member
- Jun 4, 2000
- 5,611
- 9
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I'm a dedicated user of Android for quite a while, but since SP2 came along, I have dumped (sold) all of my tablet devices, Android/iOS. I felt like it absolutely fit into the role of consumption device role (provided you don't disable Metro/Modern UI). It is slightly heavier than my iPad 4th genereation, but not overly so that I find it uncomfortable to hold (To be honest, the only time I felt like it was heavy was the first time I held it with my iPad in the other hand). I use it quite a bit for couch surfing, reading on the go (when I forget to bring my Kindle Paperwhite), and reading & marking up PDF textbooks.
The only real con against it I've found as a media device, is the lack of media type support of the default player. But that will be quickly remedied once VLC Player for Metro comes out.
Edit: For all the crap that Microsoft Market gets for "lack of apps" -- I have found it surprisingly adequate. I haven't found any pressing need to run any Android/iOS apps that I would want on it. However, I know that I can just run BlueStacks and GenyMotion for any Android apps that I would want, and still have full access to x86 system. This is basically what sold me on the Surface Pro.
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Hmmm, good question. I've not really being using it as a consumption device, but like zerogear have been doing a lot of reading and marking up on it. I prefer to work at a desk, so don't really lounge around with it in tablet form. Also, I do most of my movie watching/gaming on my desktop (larger screen). But the weight is really not an issue, I've done reading/marking up while on a long bus journey (2 hours or so) once and didn't have any problems with weight. Regarding the format stuff, I've found that installing VLC/foobar (my movie/music combo) works great, though obviously, this (as zerogear points out) doesn't work if you're on metro.
Basically, I've not had a problem while using it as a reader in tablet form. If you're used to the LE1600 than it should definitely not be a problem at all. Hope that helps!
- Oct 28, 1999
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I ended up caving and buying in on a $599 128gig version of the original earlier this week. I just couldn't get online fast enough to buy them when they were $499.
It's actually for my wife. I got it home the other day, got the 8.1 update on it and a few other things setup for her and sent her out on the road with it for a job interview this week. She was doing handwritten power point presentations and it was doing an awesome job translating her writing.
During the interview itself she was in a room with about 20 different pharmacists, doctors and midlevels and she pulled it out of her case to do some annotations on the powerpoint to further explain some details and they were all totally in awe. Lots of questions of "what is that thing? Can we get those? That's awesome!".
She's going to start carrying it with her on rounds for her ICU patients. It's a sweet that she can keep the patient chart open in one side and then make notes about drug therapies in onenote on the other.
It's a really weird device though. At least through the first couple days. Some things work best with the touch screen. Some with the mouse pad. Some with a mouse. Others with the stylus. I still haven't quite got in a groove as to when to use which.
The screen on it is incredible. It makes my Macbook Air look like washed out trash. But it's definitely on the small side of things when you have it on a desk typing away.
But when you go undock it and hold it on your lap to look at websites or watch netflix it looks freaking huge. Very bizzare. It's not *that* much bigger than an iPad but it feels like 50% more screen. Maybe it's because of the wider 16:9 format.
Anywhoo, a couple days in, and it's a very interesting product. At $499 it was a no brainer. At $599 + $120 touch cover I'm almost $800 in the hole. That's some serious jack. But in the long run I think it'll work out well for her and will be my packmule for vacations and when I'm out on the weekends and on call.
It's actually for my wife. I got it home the other day, got the 8.1 update on it and a few other things setup for her and sent her out on the road with it for a job interview this week. She was doing handwritten power point presentations and it was doing an awesome job translating her writing.
During the interview itself she was in a room with about 20 different pharmacists, doctors and midlevels and she pulled it out of her case to do some annotations on the powerpoint to further explain some details and they were all totally in awe. Lots of questions of "what is that thing? Can we get those? That's awesome!".
She's going to start carrying it with her on rounds for her ICU patients. It's a sweet that she can keep the patient chart open in one side and then make notes about drug therapies in onenote on the other.
It's a really weird device though. At least through the first couple days. Some things work best with the touch screen. Some with the mouse pad. Some with a mouse. Others with the stylus. I still haven't quite got in a groove as to when to use which.
The screen on it is incredible. It makes my Macbook Air look like washed out trash. But it's definitely on the small side of things when you have it on a desk typing away.
But when you go undock it and hold it on your lap to look at websites or watch netflix it looks freaking huge. Very bizzare. It's not *that* much bigger than an iPad but it feels like 50% more screen. Maybe it's because of the wider 16:9 format.
Anywhoo, a couple days in, and it's a very interesting product. At $499 it was a no brainer. At $599 + $120 touch cover I'm almost $800 in the hole. That's some serious jack. But in the long run I think it'll work out well for her and will be my packmule for vacations and when I'm out on the weekends and on call.
Started by getting a Surface RT. Liked it, but it felt gimped. Wound up getting a Surface 2 Pro and can't say enough good things about it. It's truly a remarkable machine.
roguerower
Diamond Member
- Nov 18, 2004
- 4,563
- 0
- 76
I want to get the 256/8gb version and use it for work in addition to personal. We've been trying to incorporate tablets into our work (construction management) out in the field, however all of the iOS/Android devices have something holding them back when you ask people. For me it's not being able to properly take notes on it. I hate the on-screen keyboard and it's a pain in the ass when trying to make notes of things or mark up drawings for review later.
I just gotta pull the trigger...
I just gotta pull the trigger...
zerogear
Diamond Member
- Jun 4, 2000
- 5,611
- 9
- 81
I'm not sure what this would be. You can certainly use Windows Media Player as a DLNA server as you've always have.
The Surface Pro 1/2 are awesome machines if you approach them from a "notebook replacement" standpoint.
If you want an iPad/Android tablet replacement, you're better off with one of the Bay Trail-based machines like the Venue 11, Omni 10 or Miix 10.
I loved the SP, so much so that I went and bought the SP2. But I was really looking for something to replace my iPad so I returned the SP2 after a couple of weeks. I'm definitely in a holding pattern to see what the Surface Pro 3 brings.
If you want an iPad/Android tablet replacement, you're better off with one of the Bay Trail-based machines like the Venue 11, Omni 10 or Miix 10.
I loved the SP, so much so that I went and bought the SP2. But I was really looking for something to replace my iPad so I returned the SP2 after a couple of weeks. I'm definitely in a holding pattern to see what the Surface Pro 3 brings.
roguerower
Diamond Member
- Nov 18, 2004
- 4,563
- 0
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Cant find the 256/8 version anywhere, but the 128/4 version is everywhere. Thinking about picking one up and then seeing what happens with the next refresh.
I have a Surface RT and the one thing I wish is that the screen were 16:10 instead of 16:9 because I use it in portrait mode a lot.
zerogear
Diamond Member
- Jun 4, 2000
- 5,611
- 9
- 81
zerogear
Diamond Member
- Jun 4, 2000
- 5,611
- 9
- 81
I'll spam this here too, since some people may not have seen the other thread:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/chrisleung/freedomcase-adjustable-stand-and-case-for-microsof
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/chrisleung/freedomcase-adjustable-stand-and-case-for-microsof
Damn, sold out online, so answer me this, does the Surface Pro run apps, from MS store. Like an tablet would from Google Play?
- Oct 28, 1999
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Microsoft has a "store" for Metro apps for x86 machines (Surface Pro/Pro 2 and most other Intel based installs of Windows 8 hit this). These are apps that are "Metro/Modern" interface that are typically optimized for touch interfaces.
In addition to the store you still have all of the traditional/legacy Windows apps that you can install on the Surface Pro's like you would on Win7/Xp/Ect. These will just knock you out to the desktop and run like a typical windows program and will likely not be as easy to use with a touch or stylus interface.
In addition to the store you still have all of the traditional/legacy Windows apps that you can install on the Surface Pro's like you would on Win7/Xp/Ect. These will just knock you out to the desktop and run like a typical windows program and will likely not be as easy to use with a touch or stylus interface.
- Oct 28, 1999
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The "Store" is the real crux of of Microsofts product portfolio. There's just too damn many versions with no real overlap between them. Windows Phone has one. Windows RT has one. Windows 8 (x86) has one. Xbox has one. And none of them are compatible with one another. There's a fraction of apps that Android or iOS have. Microsoft has totally failed in convincing developers to put time into their ecosystem and it will ultimately be what keeps the Surface and Windows 8 devices from ever gaining any serious market share.
The upshot with the Pro is that you have the full library of x86 apps available and can pretty much run any program that a Windows desktop can.
The upshot with the Pro is that you have the full library of x86 apps available and can pretty much run any program that a Windows desktop can.
I want the Pro so I can have a more flexible Laptop, but it would be nice to be able to let my kids use it for app type games and such
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