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Anyone got tips on killing someone's pride?? More specifically a 7th grader. Parents, teachers, anyone?

H

Hoeboy

Banned
I work with 3 kids in math: 6th, 7th, and 8th. The 7th grader is such a brat. All he does is say he doesn't care. We'll be working a problem and when he doesn't get it, he'll give that I don't care attitude. It's distracting to the other two because THEY care. From my observation, he puts up that attitude to hide the fact that he doesn't understand a math problem. I need to find a way to kill that pride and have him open up, admitting he needs help without feeling ashame.

Anyone got any suggestions? I don't wanna do this the wrong way because I don't want him to get even worst. If you're a parent, or better a teacher, give me some input!
 
That's what I was thinking but if done the wrong way can lead to frustration and anger. This kid is already behind and isn't connecting with anyone. I don't want to be another teacher he hates and thus won't open up to.
 
What you are talking about is false pride... he is probably ashamed that he doesn't understand the problem.

Try this instead:

Let him know that there will be a reward for good behavior at the end of each session, available to each child. The criteria for earning the reward is cooperating with you and trying their best, not necessarily getting it 'right'.

Then, everytime he makes an effort to listen and work with you, encourage him. Break it down into small steps, and each time he approximates what you want to do, build up real pride and confidence in him.

At the end of each session, if he has had a good attitude, he gets his reward. If he hasn't had a good attitude, he gets to watch the other kids enjoy their treats! You can also use a 'big' reward for sometime in the future, like after he has so many good days in a row.

I highly recommend you pick up a book on behavior modification. You won't be able to change his behavior as much as you can change the way you RESPOND to his behavior. And how you reapond can make all the difference.

Good luck!
 
The only other way is fear, so would stick to trying embarasssment. I don't know of anything else besides those two that will affect pride.
 
Teacher here.

Uh.. the worst thing you can do to a kid is to make him feel stupid in front of his peers.
The best strategy to help this kid, (I student teach junior high kids) is to ask the kid to stay after class privately.
When he sticks around, voice your concern with him, tell him you think he has this attitude because he really doesn't understand the problem and that since you are his teacher, that you are willing to help in any way possible.
Whether he sticks around for help or not is his decision, but tell him that you cannot have him interupting your classroom or the learning of other students.

Your handling of this situation is crucial, because if he knows that he can come to you for help, then everything works out for everyone.
If you are a jerk about it (no offense) and treat him poorly, his behaviour will only get worse and you will have lost the chance to help him.


Good luck.
 
if u reward them dont give em candy... that'll just make em hyper.. unless you wait until the end of the session, but then you'd drive their parents insane 🙂
 


<< since you are his teacher, that you are willing to help in any way possible. >>



If you're a hot female teacher, put extra emphasis on this phrase. 😉 j/k!

Perhaps the root of the problem is not the kid, but lack of encouragement from home?

Good luck with this kid.
 


<< The only other way is fear, so would stick to trying embarasssment. I don't know of anything else besides those two that will affect pride. >>



You have to make your kids respect you before you can expect results. The worst thing to do is make them respect you because of fear.
Let them know that they are your friend and that you are there to help them 100% (you're the teacher) but also make it known that it is your classroom and that there are rules to follow.
 
Isla, actually I just implemented a reward system using play money that can be exchanged for prizes. In fact we discussed the system as a group and he was one of the ones who gave reasonable rewards (most kids say outrageous things). But today is the first day I started handing out money and what was his attitude? "I don't care."


Corporate, yeah I know. If I do anything in front of his peer, I know I will have to follow with a private conversation regarding why I did what I did. I can honestly sense he CAN be a good and smart student given he change his attitude. But his many years of conditioning by poor teachers made him the way he is now. I held him back eariler today to speak to him but I don't have much experience in dealing with middle school kids so I didn't know what to really say except as a teacher I care so he should care or no one else will.
 


<< Isla, actually I just implemented a reward system using play money that can be exchanged for prizes. In fact we discussed the system as a group and he was one of the ones who gave reasonable rewards (most kids say outrageous things). But today is the first day I started handing out money and what was his attitude? "I don't care."


Corporate, yeah I know. If I do anything in front of his peer, I know I will have to follow with a private conversation regarding why I did what I did. I can honestly sense he CAN be a good and smart student given he change his attitude. But his many years of conditioning by poor teachers made him the way he is now. I held him back eariler today to speak to him but I don't have much experience in dealing with middle school kids so I didn't know what to really say except as a teacher I care so he should care or no one else will. >>




If you want, I have a lot of experience in this, and I would be more than happy to help you perhaps organize what you want to say to him, or at least prepare you for what HE will tell you. If you want, I can PM you, or I can post it here.
 
Another teacher here. 🙂

Corporate is right. The very last thing you want to do is embarass him or scare him. That will make him care even less.

Talk with him on the side like Corporate said. The attitude of the other students might also be a factor - make sure that there is a "no hunting" environment, meaning that if one kid is wrong there is no criticism from the other students. If it is just these three kids, you may also be able to do individual work with them, which may be less threatening. Depending on the other kids, you might even talk to them as well, but it's hard to say from this perspective.

Just for reference, rewards (tangible, material ones, anyway) are generally very temporary solutions and won't encourage long-term participation or learning. But that's just "Vygotsky beating up on Skinner" talking. (Inside "teacher annoyed at all the theory he's learned" joke...)
 
Here's the problem: He doesn't care. Seriously. You tell him that "if X=4 =6, then X=2". He thinks "Big fricking deal, what thell use do I get from 2 X's?"

My brother is like this, but he's a few years older (in high school). He does sh!tty in school. It's not becuase he's too dumb to do it, but becuase he really honestly doesn't give a rat's ass what X is, or how DNA divides, or who wrote "four score and seven years ago..."

These kids just find it all irrelevant. If you can convince him that it will benefit him to know how to do math, and show him how it's helpful, then you can prob ably get him to try. As it is right now, he probably honestly doesn't care. Why would he?

You have to give him a reason to learn, other than "cause I said so" or "cause you're supposed to".
 
The "I don't care" attitude among children is a classic defense mechanism to avoid being embarrased. Killing his pride is not the answer. You should do some one-on-one work with that kid. Get him away from his peers and his attitude will change. If he's having trouble with math, dumb the subject down a little and let him experience a little success. He's afraid to fail and more importantly he's afraid to fail with his peers looking on. IMO Good Luck to you.
 
But that's just "Vygotsky beating up on Skinner" talking. (Inside "teacher annoyed at all the theory he's learned" joke...)

*annoyed through vicarious reinforcement*

Ack ! Bandura, get it off ! get it off ! 😉

let me answer this question. Here's the thing, apathy is one of the hardest things you can fight against since it's such a comfortable place to be in. It's even harder determining the causes of apathy since they are so multifarious (that may not be a word... multifaceted? ... ah well) and yet that foundationis what you must attack if you want to get anywhere. The best way I know of? Well, I usually do straight behavior modification since I can't have direct access to their brains or give drugs....not yet at least...behavior modification according to Skinner sucks. The stuff doesn't work, we're not some sort of dogs who have knee-jerk responses to the same stimuli. All sorts of cognition, memory, experiences, etc go into the response. That means a tailored approach to each person.

the solution? Well, I'd have to go with transference since it works pretty well. that is, give the person a reason to care. Make him see what he's missing out on. Sustained positive reinforcement through various means already mentioned will also wear away at the defenses and may cause a shift in thinking, and not only behavior. Also, developing a relationship may not be a bad idea. What this kid needs is some sort of positive role model and perhaps more involvement with his peers. You can have games where others suggest ways of helping this person. that builds valuable skills for them, for you, and will likely result in a wearing down. What else am I going to say. rambling here... Oh yeah, whatever you do, the whole fear and punishment thing won't work. You treat people like animals and they will behave like animals.

*waves to Isla and Hoeboy*

Cheers ! 🙂
 
man... i hate (some) kids. yesterday at a family gathering, my cousin's 7y/o walk up behind me and starts punching my ass for no reason at all. i turn around and ask him why he's punching. he doesn't even look at me when i asked. puts his head down... winds up... and now at this moment, i'm thinking that he is not gonna punch me in the nutsack. i call his bluf... and FAWK!!! i wanted to stomp him so bad... but there were too many ppl around that would see it. i bring myself to bitch to some relatived whom are of my generation. i turn and look at the little turd who is now in the kitchen and he has this f'ed up smirk on his face and he says "ha-ha". kids know what they are doing. some of them are just @$$holes. they know its wrong... but they keep doing it. they don't want to listen. they're just stubborn. i admire some teachers out there with the patience to put up with the crap some kids dish out. if i were the teacher, i'd stomp them after class and take their lunch money.
 
oh im having flashbacks to educational psychology class sophmore year of college. that class was the biggest load of crap. some kids just need a good beating. jk.

ok id did learn some valuable things from that class.

isla, linuxboy, and the rest had some good things to say.

good luck with him.
 


<< Perhaps the root of the problem is not the kid, but lack of encouragement from home? >>



I'm going to be a d*ck for a minute here and with this semi-rhetorical statement: maybe the kid is just dumb. I'm imagining a collective gasp from the audience that someone could be so callous, but I'm tired of the "triangle of blame" when a student does poorly.

For the most part, that triangle is Parents - Teachers - Adminstrators/The System/Government (pick one for the third leg). But not all student problems are necessarily someone's fault, or at least not someone ELSE's fault. Some students simply aren't bright enough to do the work. Whatever. No one's evil or malicious just because some student can't do the work.

Our system would work A LOT better if we made some concessions to reality. Not every one is educable. Pretending that isn't so hurts everyone.
 
This is going to sound counter-intuitive, but it's a very effective approach with many kids like this who seem to have a bit of an attitude problem. Put the "problem kid" in the spot of being the "student expert" for the other kids on the subject matter, and helping them learn it. For a lot of kids, the "I don't care" routine can pretty easily be broken down once you put them on the spot... they can't simply claim to be doing it to defy you anymore, as the other kids will be looking at him to lead. Offer him some "student leader support" in helping to develop his "cirriculum" for teaching the other kids, and see if his motivation kicks in once his sense of competition has been challenged not directly by you, but rather by the desire to look like the "big man" in front of his classmates. You might be surprised at how quickly he straightens up once it seems that he's the one facing the criticism and need to teach others.
 
<<Here's the problem: He doesn't care. Seriously. You tell him that "if X=4 =6, then X=2". He thinks "Big fricking deal, what thell use do I get from 2 X's?"

My brother is like this, but he's a few years older (in high school). He does sh!tty in school. It's not becuase he's too dumb to do it, but becuase he really honestly doesn't give a rat's ass what X is, or how DNA divides, or who wrote "four score and seven years ago..."

These kids just find it all irrelevant. If you can convince him that it will benefit him to know how to do math, and show him how it's helpful, then you can prob ably get him to try. As it is right now, he probably honestly doesn't care. Why would he?

You have to give him a reason to learn, other than "cause I said so" or "cause you're supposed to".>>


Well from what I have observed, he DOES appear to care. I've asked him bout his ambitions and goals and he has a lot to look forward to. I have a really strong feeling his I don't care attitude is how he shows frustration. When I give him a problem, he does try at first. It's not like he just sits there. He tries and when he's stuck, he says "I know it's wrong but I don't care."


spanky, I can be assured you won't ever get into teaching right? 😉 lol j/k. yes patience is a big deal when it comes to teaching. People don't realize how short their patience is until they have a bad day and 30+ kids are misbehaving.


<<'m going to be a d*ck for a minute here and with this semi-rhetorical statement: maybe the kid is just dumb. I'm imagining a collective gasp from the audience that someone could be so callous, but I'm tired of the "triangle of blame" when a student does poorly.

For the most part, that triangle is Parents - Teachers - Adminstrators/The System/Government (pick one for the third leg). But not all student problems are necessarily someone's fault, or at least not someone ELSE's fault. Some students simply aren't bright enough to do the work. Whatever. No one's evil or malicious just because some student can't do the work.

Our system would work A LOT better if we made some concessions to reality. Not every one is educable. Pretending that isn't so hurts everyone. >>


Does that statement come from ANY experience whatsoever? I honestly honestly honestly HONESTLY DO NOT believe any kid is dumb. ANY and EVERY KID has the potential to achieve the standard knowledge and some kids can excel past that. A kid's own attitude is of course a factor. It's amazing how some kids can do jack and people think they're dumb because they always get F's. BUT when you bring in a good teacher OR a good environment, these same kids can get A's. Why is that? I've seen it over and over. Their environment and surrounding plays a dramatic role not only directly but indirectly. An environment shapes a kid's attitude towards himself and education. So teachers, parents, adminstrations, peers, etc. DO play a factor.



 
Update:

I came into work today and he was the FIRST one to come in. I was amazed. Usually he's reluctant to come see me or even to come late. I rewarded him with play money that he can redeem later on for prizes. So we got started reviewing what we did yesterday. Then we got into new materials. WOW, throughout the entire time, he never ever mentioned those words: I don't care. He actually tried his best today and asked for help when he needed it. I actually felt guilty because another kid needed help and I couldn't give him the amount of attention I wanted to. But since he understood the material better than the other kid, I made him felt like the reason why I didn't help him as much was because he's ahead of the other kid. Then I did some reciprocated teaching. I did a problem on the board and did it wrong intentionally. He got up and fixed it. He was involved, he didn't complain, he tried his best and asked for help. I couldn't be more happy. I held him back and told him I like the way he was today and to encourage him, I secretly gave him some more play money.

I don't know what came over him today. Maybe my private conversation got to him yesterday, although it didn't come out the way i wanted it to. Or maybe it's because there was only him and another kid in the room. Usually we have 3-4 kids. I don't know but I hope he keeps it up. We'll see what happens tomorrow.
 
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