Anyone from MA, if so thoughts on Question 1?

[bozack]

So just wondering if anyone else is from this great liberal haven and had thoughts on this measure....

Personally I see it as a damned either way deal...kill the income tax and other fees (sales/prop) go up....

 

[StageLeft]

Not heard about it but I imagine you're right; you'll end up paying either way. Let me guess, one of the criticisms, probably valid, is that it favors the richer people who make a lot of income because the money you will end up paying from elsewhere could ultimately be increases in sales tax and the like.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Not heard about it but I imagine you're right; you'll end up paying either way. Let me guess, one of the criticisms, probably valid, is that it favors the richer people who make a lot of income because the money you will end up paying from elsewhere could ultimately be increases in sales tax and the like.

Increase in sales tax, property tax, parking fees, traffic tickets, etc just to make up for the deficit this would cause. I think it would make things worse.

 

[GTKeeper]

It is a damned either way bill.

I have argued with people so much in the past and people are just too dumb to realize that a 0% tax doesn't mean you keep any more of your money. Everything else gets taxed and its more of a shaft than you think.

Just look at states where there is 0% income tax like FL, TX, WA, DE.... People pay much higher rates on other services.

If they do away with the sales tax, how are roads, schools, bridges, police, firemen etc. get paid for? Its just a stupid ploy to turn out the base much like the gay marriage thing back in 2004.

There has to be some sort of tax in any type of society.

 

[StepUp]

0% Income Tax in TN, 9.75% sales tax rate on everything.

 

[ebaycj]

at least you can deduct your state income tax on your federal return.

good luck at deducting the same amount of $$ (accurately) when your sales tax is 10%.

 

[alchemize]

I think it's a great idea. I'd much rather pay a higher tax on my "money out" (sales tax). I can control what I spend.

Mass. long ago gave up on it's liberal ideals for the neo-socialism it's become enamored with.

This is a great way to force accountability on the politicians and purge out the govt. fat.

 

[Slick5150]

Originally posted by: alchemize
I think it's a great idea. I'd much rather pay a higher tax on my "money out" (sales tax). I can control what I spend.

Mass. long ago gave up on it's liberal ideals for the neo-socialism it's become enamored with.

This is a great way to force accountability on the politicians and purge out the govt. fat.

Wow. You crammed an awful lot of buzz words into 3 lines. Bravo.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Slick5150

Originally posted by: alchemize
I think it's a great idea. I'd much rather pay a higher tax on my "money out" (sales tax). I can control what I spend.

Mass. long ago gave up on it's liberal ideals for the neo-socialism it's become enamored with.

This is a great way to force accountability on the politicians and purge out the govt. fat.

Wow. You crammed an awful lot of buzz words into 3 lines. Bravo.

Would you like more specifics or was it all over your head?

 

[Genx87]

There are points to be made for different tax scenario's. Florida has zero income tax but taxes your property heavily. Who makes out on that? I would say the poor who dont own property. While the rich living in lavish condos and homes on the ocean pay through the nose.

In other states with zero income taxes they make up for it with a high sales tax. That ends up being regressive depending on how much the poor spend.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Genx87
There are points to be made for different tax scenario's. Florida has zero income tax but taxes your property heavily. Who makes out on that? I would say the poor who dont own property. While the rich living in lavish condos and homes on the ocean pay through the nose.

In other states with zero income taxes they make up for it with a high sales tax. That ends up being regressive depending on how much the poor spend.

Actually as Property Tax goes up rent also does as the Property Owners pass the increase on to the tenants.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87
There are points to be made for different tax scenario's. Florida has zero income tax but taxes your property heavily. Who makes out on that? I would say the poor who dont own property. While the rich living in lavish condos and homes on the ocean pay through the nose.

In other states with zero income taxes they make up for it with a high sales tax. That ends up being regressive depending on how much the poor spend.

Actually as Property Tax goes up rent also does as the Property Owners pass the increase on to the tenants.

I would be surprised if the cost of increase in rent would be anywhere near what they would pay in state income taxes. Afterall they are usually sharing that passed cost with other renters.

 

[badkarma1399]

I'll be voting against it. Getting rid of taxes is worthless unless you reduce spending.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87
There are points to be made for different tax scenario's. Florida has zero income tax but taxes your property heavily. Who makes out on that? I would say the poor who dont own property. While the rich living in lavish condos and homes on the ocean pay through the nose.

In other states with zero income taxes they make up for it with a high sales tax. That ends up being regressive depending on how much the poor spend.

Actually as Property Tax goes up rent also does as the Property Owners pass the increase on to the tenants.

I would be surprised if the cost of increase in rent would be anywhere near what they would pay in state income taxes. Afterall they are usually sharing that passed cost with other renters.

Wrong. I live on the border of New Hampshire which doesn't have an income tax. Property taxes are sky high. For lower income people, especially the working poor who would pay no income taxes, well, now they are paying taxes.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87
There are points to be made for different tax scenario's. Florida has zero income tax but taxes your property heavily. Who makes out on that? I would say the poor who dont own property. While the rich living in lavish condos and homes on the ocean pay through the nose.

In other states with zero income taxes they make up for it with a high sales tax. That ends up being regressive depending on how much the poor spend.

Actually as Property Tax goes up rent also does as the Property Owners pass the increase on to the tenants.

I would be surprised if the cost of increase in rent would be anywhere near what they would pay in state income taxes. Afterall they are usually sharing that passed cost with other renters.

Wrong. I live on the border of New Hampshire which doesn't have an income tax. Property taxes are sky high. For lower income people, especially the working poor who would pay no income taxes, well, now they are paying taxes.

Wrong on what? I said in states without income taxes they can pay via higher property taxes. I question whether sharing the increased cost of property taxes with multiple tenants would be equal to what they would pay via a state income taxes, not they they arent paying for it via higher rent.

Just another techs response that fails to understand what it is replying to.

 

[Strk]

We'll end up paying for it one way or the other. It would be like Romney was back in office. He didn't raise taxes, but everything else went up.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: ebaycj
at least you can deduct your state income tax on your federal return.

good luck at deducting the same amount of $$ (accurately) when your sales tax is 10%.

Sales tax is 7.5% here in Nevada w/ no income tax.

All people have the options of deducting their sales tax from the Federal instead of their income tax via the Schedule A.

For most income tax states, it does not have a benefit.
For the non-income tax states, it does.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: StepUp
0% Income Tax in TN, 9.75% sales tax rate on everything.

That's not much higher than states that have high state income tax.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: StepUp
0% Income Tax in TN, 9.75% sales tax rate on everything.

That's not much higher than states that have high state income tax.

Take into account the property taxes on some of those high sales tax states.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I'll be voting no. The idea and plan is not thought out at all by the folks proposing it.

 

[Zorba]

I am pretty sure Texas has relatively low sales tax, but fairly high property tax.

Better than Ohio that has State Income, High Property, Moderate Sales, Local Income and School Income. My wife and I can itemize our federal taxes just from writing off our state and local taxes .

 

[EagleKeeper]

No matter how you slice it, a State needs so much income to deliver the services expected to their population.

How it is obtained is just a different color of paint.

The only benefit is to those that can manipulate the system to let it work to their advantage.

A state can increase/waste expenditures by having a high income flow or can be stingy and have a low income requirement.

If the state does not require a large outlay of funds, the tax burden can be reduced.

The cost & income per capita is a good way of looking at the value a person gets from their state government.

 

[alchemize]

It's not like MA has low property taxes already (it doesn't) or low sales tax either (5%)...

 

[uli2000]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: ebaycj
at least you can deduct your state income tax on your federal return.

good luck at deducting the same amount of $$ (accurately) when your sales tax is 10%.

Sales tax is 7.5% here in Nevada w/ no income tax.

All people have the options of deducting their sales tax from the Federal instead of their income tax via the Schedule A.

For most income tax states, it does not have a benefit.
For the non-income tax states, it does.

Its even lower in some of the rural counties. My sales tax is only 7.1% in White Pine County, and my property tax on a 3 bedroom home is less than $600/yr.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: techs

Wrong. I live on the border of New Hampshire which doesn't have an income tax. Property taxes are sky high. For lower income people, especially the working poor who would pay no income taxes, well, now they are paying taxes.

thank Gene Shaheen for that one on you guys