Anyone feel things are about to come to a head? Global food crisis, global warming etc etc..

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Originally posted by: Zebo
Ive definitely thought about it and have tried to stay in shape and make preparations in case SHTF so we could hopefully survive it. e.g. live on 5 acres, understand gardening, have three months food on hand, sleeping bags, candles etc. I don't really fear it and sorta look at it as an adventure meanwhile running every morning makes me feel better currently. The other problems you mention would take care of themselves as oil runs out as they are a direct function of cheap abundant oil.

I think the "learn survival skills just in case you need to live off the land" scenario falls under the fearmongering section I wanted to discredit at the beginning at least for those of us living in the 1st world and for the foreseeable future. I suppose it could come to that but I'm just cynical enough to think that the 1st world isn't going to let go of it's current lifestyle without a huge fight and by that I mean it will drag the 3rd world down into the depths of hell and lower before we ever end up having to live off the land here. Which is exactly what I am afraid will start to happen if sensible actions aren't enacted soon.

No choice in the matter. We cant maintain this lifestyle without go juice and its running out. The so-called alternatives cant make up for the loss of fossils even 10%.

Sure they can it's only a matter of how quickly we are willing to change and how much money we will need to invest. Technology wise there is no reason why a mix of alternatives can't make up for the loss of fossil fuels. There is enough coal alone to power our society for generations to come, so long as it's burned using some for of carbon sequestration and or storage. I'm talking about REAL clean coal not the ad campaign the current coal industry is running. Add other alternative sources to the mix and it's definitely doable. All cars can be converted to plugin hybrids and electrics. Again all of this is possible it's just a matter of how much money it's going to cost and if we are willing to foot such a bill. Eventually something like this has to happen anyway.

All these platitudes are scientifically/economically addressed here
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/SecondPage.html

Coal - a fossil fuel which is disappearing in 200 years (peak coal) which will diminish geometrically as we replace oil with it.

Alternatives are and will continue to be infinitesimal.

Cars being electric or hybrid doesnt solve the fuel problem at all. It's just a different means of transporting and using fuel.

I hope these experts are wrong but I don't see how they can be without some miracle energy machine.

Jesus...not the peak oil page again. That is the epitome of fearmongering.

Lots of new technology (or old tech for that matter) is not discussed or addressed properly by that page.

The nuclear power section is inexcusably bad. Uranium production had fallen over the last couple decades because of a massive oversupply that made it to cheap to mine and governments mixing surplus HEU back into the fuel stream. There is a hell of a lot of it still in the ground. Of course the thorium cycle and breeder reactors aren't even discussed, nor is waste reprocessing which yields even more fuel and drastically reduces waste issues. Thermal production of hydrogen using high temperature reactors (which is FAR more efficient than electrolysis) also not included.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Originally posted by: Zebo
Ive definitely thought about it and have tried to stay in shape and make preparations in case SHTF so we could hopefully survive it. e.g. live on 5 acres, understand gardening, have three months food on hand, sleeping bags, candles etc. I don't really fear it and sorta look at it as an adventure meanwhile running every morning makes me feel better currently. The other problems you mention would take care of themselves as oil runs out as they are a direct function of cheap abundant oil.

I think the "learn survival skills just in case you need to live off the land" scenario falls under the fearmongering section I wanted to discredit at the beginning at least for those of us living in the 1st world and for the foreseeable future. I suppose it could come to that but I'm just cynical enough to think that the 1st world isn't going to let go of it's current lifestyle without a huge fight and by that I mean it will drag the 3rd world down into the depths of hell and lower before we ever end up having to live off the land here. Which is exactly what I am afraid will start to happen if sensible actions aren't enacted soon.

No choice in the matter. We cant maintain this lifestyle without go juice and its running out. The so-called alternatives cant make up for the loss of fossils even 10%.

Sure they can it's only a matter of how quickly we are willing to change and how much money we will need to invest. Technology wise there is no reason why a mix of alternatives can't make up for the loss of fossil fuels. There is enough coal alone to power our society for generations to come, so long as it's burned using some for of carbon sequestration and or storage. I'm talking about REAL clean coal not the ad campaign the current coal industry is running. Add other alternative sources to the mix and it's definitely doable. All cars can be converted to plugin hybrids and electrics. Again all of this is possible it's just a matter of how much money it's going to cost and if we are willing to foot such a bill. Eventually something like this has to happen anyway.

All these platitudes are scientifically/economically addressed here
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/SecondPage.html

Coal - a fossil fuel which is disappearing in 200 years (peak coal) which will diminish geometrically as we replace oil with it.

Alternatives are and will continue to be infinitesimal.

Cars being electric or hybrid doesnt solve the fuel problem at all. It's just a different means of transporting and using fuel.

I hope these experts are wrong but I don't see how they can be without some miracle energy machine.

Jesus...not the peak oil page again. That is the epitome of fearmongering.

Lots of new technology (or old tech for that matter) is not discussed or addressed properly by that page.

The nuclear power section is inexcusably bad. Uranium production had fallen over the last couple decades because of a massive oversupply that made it to cheap to mine and governments mixing surplus HEU back into the fuel stream. There is a hell of a lot of it still in the ground. Of course the thorium cycle and breeder reactors aren't even discussed, nor is waste reprocessing which yields even more fuel and drastically reduces waste issues. Thermal production of hydrogen using high temperature reactors (which is FAR more efficient than electrolysis) also not included.

We don't even need nuclear. With adequate electrical storage technologies, we could easily power the entire world from solar energy (including wind, water, and wave) alone.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Originally posted by: Zebo
Ive definitely thought about it and have tried to stay in shape and make preparations in case SHTF so we could hopefully survive it. e.g. live on 5 acres, understand gardening, have three months food on hand, sleeping bags, candles etc. I don't really fear it and sorta look at it as an adventure meanwhile running every morning makes me feel better currently. The other problems you mention would take care of themselves as oil runs out as they are a direct function of cheap abundant oil.

I think the "learn survival skills just in case you need to live off the land" scenario falls under the fearmongering section I wanted to discredit at the beginning at least for those of us living in the 1st world and for the foreseeable future. I suppose it could come to that but I'm just cynical enough to think that the 1st world isn't going to let go of it's current lifestyle without a huge fight and by that I mean it will drag the 3rd world down into the depths of hell and lower before we ever end up having to live off the land here. Which is exactly what I am afraid will start to happen if sensible actions aren't enacted soon.

No choice in the matter. We cant maintain this lifestyle without go juice and its running out. The so-called alternatives cant make up for the loss of fossils even 10%.

Sure they can it's only a matter of how quickly we are willing to change and how much money we will need to invest. Technology wise there is no reason why a mix of alternatives can't make up for the loss of fossil fuels. There is enough coal alone to power our society for generations to come, so long as it's burned using some for of carbon sequestration and or storage. I'm talking about REAL clean coal not the ad campaign the current coal industry is running. Add other alternative sources to the mix and it's definitely doable. All cars can be converted to plugin hybrids and electrics. Again all of this is possible it's just a matter of how much money it's going to cost and if we are willing to foot such a bill. Eventually something like this has to happen anyway.

All these platitudes are scientifically/economically addressed here
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/SecondPage.html

Coal - a fossil fuel which is disappearing in 200 years (peak coal) which will diminish geometrically as we replace oil with it.

Alternatives are and will continue to be infinitesimal.

Cars being electric or hybrid doesnt solve the fuel problem at all. It's just a different means of transporting and using fuel.

I hope these experts are wrong but I don't see how they can be without some miracle energy machine.

Jesus...not the peak oil page again. That is the epitome of fearmongering.

Lots of new technology (or old tech for that matter) is not discussed or addressed properly by that page.

The nuclear power section is inexcusably bad. Uranium production had fallen over the last couple decades because of a massive oversupply that made it to cheap to mine and governments mixing surplus HEU back into the fuel stream. There is a hell of a lot of it still in the ground. Of course the thorium cycle and breeder reactors aren't even discussed, nor is waste reprocessing which yields even more fuel and drastically reduces waste issues. Thermal production of hydrogen using high temperature reactors (which is FAR more efficient than electrolysis) also not included.

We don't even need nuclear. With adequate electrical storage technologies, we could easily power the entire world from solar energy (including wind, water, and wave) alone.

Storing that amount of energy at a reasonable efficency is a more formidable technical problem. More advanced reactors are attractive since they can be used to create steam for electricity production or hydrogen for vehicle fuel/peak power needs depending on what is required at a given time and do so very efficiently.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Vic
We don't even need nuclear. With adequate electrical storage technologies, we could easily power the entire world from solar energy (including wind, water, and wave) alone.

Bear in mind that there is no such thing as a free lunch. If we remove energy in the form of sunlight from any environment, there will be side affects. Not to say it isn't better than using oil, but if you're referring to the super-arrays of panels that sit in the middle of the worlds deserts, there will be an associated climate change in surrounding areas.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Vic
We don't even need nuclear. With adequate electrical storage technologies, we could easily power the entire world from solar energy (including wind, water, and wave) alone.

Bear in mind that there is no such thing as a free lunch. If we remove energy in the form of sunlight from any environment, there will be side affects. Not to say it isn't better than using oil, but if you're referring to the super-arrays of panels that sit in the middle of the worlds deserts, there will be an associated climate change in surrounding areas.

The point I was making is that there is plenty of energy on planet earth for humankind's needs. I wasn't trying to get into a global warming/cooling debate.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: yllus
It's not that things today are that bad, it's that things for the last decade and a half were unnaturally good.

Yep. It hasn't been perfect by any means, but we've had quite a little golden age since the end of the Cold War. Much of the world has seen unprecedented prosperity and/or development.

Now we have to figure out how to sustain it, which will require technological advancement and some radical changes.

Who will make and offer these "technological advancements"?

Who has to make radical changes?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: yllus
It's not that things today are that bad, it's that things for the last decade and a half were unnaturally good.

Yep. It hasn't been perfect by any means, but we've had quite a little golden age since the end of the Cold War. Much of the world has seen unprecedented prosperity and/or development.

Now we have to figure out how to sustain it, which will require technological advancement and some radical changes.

Who will make and offer these "technological advancements"?

Who has to make radical changes?

Not you, Dave, not you. We'd still be in the trees if we listened to your kind.

But what is known. More efficient and productive use of our otherwise abundant energy supplies. The "radical changes" will be those associated with that use, for example, we drive cars now instead of horse and buggies.
One thing is certain, we have to stop burning an non-renewal resource, and making things from that resources that last forever but which we will use only once.

 

[mxyzptlk]

1. I'd say anyone who wants to be rich because they're going to be immensely profitable.

2. Everyone who isn't already rich enough to shrug off higher energy prices. I mean if you're driving a Bently, it doesn't really matter if gas is 4 bucks a gallon or 40. Me? I'd gladly give up driving my sorta-efficient mini to work and back every day during the week IF there were appropriate public transportation in its place. (and if i still got to drive it on the weekends.. i love my mini!)

 

[Baltazar325]

It's all over in 2012 anyway.