Anyone familiar with HP's MediaSmart Server?

[Kaido]

Engadget article

My NAS isn't seen as a backup source, despite having AFP/SMB/FTP/NFS/ABC/FOX/IHOP. I'm curious as to what they're using to get Time Machine working properly with a non-Time Capsule/Airport Extreme system. Also, I want to know what their iTunes Server does and how it works - if you buy a song, does it sync up? Can you still copy it to your iPod, or can you only stream?

Very interesting concept, I like it

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Kaido
Engadget article

My NAS isn't seen as a backup source, despite having AFP/SMB/FTP/NFS/ABC/FOX/IHOP. I'm curious as to what they're using to get Time Machine working properly with a non-Time Capsule/Airport Extreme system. Also, I want to know what their iTunes Server does and how it works - if you buy a song, does it sync up? Can you still copy it to your iPod, or can you only stream?

Very interesting concept, I like it

I wish HP would just sell that extra software; it would make things so much easier. I've virtualized my WHS, and so I have little interest in an HP solution, but the software, OTOH.....

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Kaido
I'm curious as to what they're using to get Time Machine working properly with a non-Time Capsule/Airport Extreme system.

I have a gut feeling that they're enabling the SMB hack for Time Machine and directing backups to the server via that, perhaps in conjunction with a hidden SMB mounted volume. I have been told that the SMB hack isn't fully capable of handling Time Machine because it can't make bootable backups of the OS, which is consistent with the claims I've seen that the new MSS suffers a similar limitation. We shall see though.

Also, I want to know what their iTunes Server does and how it works - if you buy a song, does it sync up? Can you still copy it to your iPod, or can you only stream?

As for the iTunes feature, it's my understanding that HP has offered this as far back as when the first MSS was introduced in 2007. There's an application on the server that looks for music under //server/music/ and shares it via an emulated iTunes Shared Library. So you have all the usual limitations (streaming only, iTunes must be authenticated to listen to purchased music, etc).

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Kaido
I'm curious as to what they're using to get Time Machine working properly with a non-Time Capsule/Airport Extreme system.

I have a gut feeling that they're enabling the SMB hack for Time Machine and directing backups to the server via that, perhaps in conjunction with a hidden SMB mounted volume. I have been told that the SMB hack isn't fully capable of handling Time Machine because it can't make bootable backups of the OS, which is consistent with the claims I've seen that the new MSS suffers a similar limitation. We shall see though.

I've discovered that bootable backups aren't a huge issue because you can launch Migration Assistant post-install. The most important thing is to update your OS to the same version you had before, because Time Machine won't restore System Updates, just apps/files/settings. So no big deal...provided the backup actually works. I've never been comfortable doing the network hack because a future update could kill it and ruin the whole idea, plus if you work with large files it takes FOREVER even on a Gigabit network.

Also, I want to know what their iTunes Server does and how it works - if you buy a song, does it sync up? Can you still copy it to your iPod, or can you only stream?

As for the iTunes feature, it's my understanding that HP has offered this as far back as when the first MSS was introduced in 2007. There's an application on the server that looks for music under //server/music/ and shares it via an emulated iTunes Shared Library. So you have all the usual limitations (streaming only, iTunes must be authenticated to listen to purchased music, etc).

Hmm. I really wish Apple would release a Home Server like Time Capsule, but with hot-swap drives, RAID functionality, iTunes server, Time Machine server, MobileMe backup sync, etc.

There's already a review of the HP btw:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/1...ve-and-full-blown-rev/

 

[ViRGE]

After the amount of trouble MS had with WHS, I'd rather Apple not release a similar box, at least not until MS has the market segment better defined.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Kaido
I'm curious as to what they're using to get Time Machine working properly with a non-Time Capsule/Airport Extreme system.

I have a gut feeling that they're enabling the SMB hack for Time Machine and directing backups to the server via that, perhaps in conjunction with a hidden SMB mounted volume. I have been told that the SMB hack isn't fully capable of handling Time Machine because it can't make bootable backups of the OS, which is consistent with the claims I've seen that the new MSS suffers a similar limitation. We shall see though.

I've discovered that bootable backups aren't a huge issue because you can launch Migration Assistant post-install. The most important thing is to update your OS to the same version you had before, because Time Machine won't restore System Updates, just apps/files/settings. So no big deal...provided the backup actually works. I've never been comfortable doing the network hack because a future update could kill it and ruin the whole idea, plus if you work with large files it takes FOREVER even on a Gigabit network.

Also, I want to know what their iTunes Server does and how it works - if you buy a song, does it sync up? Can you still copy it to your iPod, or can you only stream?

As for the iTunes feature, it's my understanding that HP has offered this as far back as when the first MSS was introduced in 2007. There's an application on the server that looks for music under //server/music/ and shares it via an emulated iTunes Shared Library. So you have all the usual limitations (streaming only, iTunes must be authenticated to listen to purchased music, etc).

Hmm. I really wish Apple would release a Home Server like Time Capsule, but with hot-swap drives, RAID functionality, iTunes server, Time Machine server, MobileMe backup sync, etc.

There's already a review of the HP btw:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/1...ve-and-full-blown-rev/

here

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
After the amount of trouble MS had with WHS, I'd rather Apple not release a similar box, at least not until MS has the market segment better defined.

Hmm..what trouble? The disk issue that only hit if you had 2+ disks, disk duplication turned on, and used certain file types and saved data in a certain way?

Aside from that I'm not familiar with any other issues (aside from the normal Windows bugfixes)... I've been pretty happy with my setup so far.

 

[ViRGE]

I'm talking about the trouble MS has had getting vendors on board and selling it. They haven't been able to clearly define what a WHS box should do, how much one should cost, or how it should work (they've made some significant behavioral changes since it launched). Meanwhile it conflicts with Windows Media Center as they both try to do similar things at times.

There's no clear market segment for such a device. I'd rather Apple wait until there is before they start making one, so that they can decide what to put on it and not half-ass parts of it.

 

[dclive]

Interesting thought process, but I'm not sure where the confusion lies, nor do I see how it conflicts with Windows Media Center.

WMC records TV content and stores it so it can be played back locally or via Extenders (Xbox 360. Linksys, etc....)

Windows Home Server does backups of all Windows machines on the network, plus stores any type of content (including TV content....) for playback on any device, Extender or not, Windows or not (it needs to decode DIVX-like formats or WMV-like formats; if it can do that and map SMB shares it will work), plus it hosts web pages and does other more typical server tasks.

HP's models are in the $500 range, which is fairly cheap for what it does and the easy functionality it offers.

Where is the confusion?

 

[Zaap]

This worked for me to get TimeMachine to backup to my home-built NAS.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: dclive
Interesting thought process, but I'm not sure where the confusion lies, nor do I see how it conflicts with Windows Media Center.

WMC records TV content and stores it so it can be played back locally or via Extenders (Xbox 360. Linksys, etc....)

Windows Home Server does backups of all Windows machines on the network, plus stores any type of content (including TV content....) for playback on any device, Extender or not, Windows or not (it needs to decode DIVX-like formats or WMV-like formats; if it can do that and map SMB shares it will work), plus it hosts web pages and does other more typical server tasks.

HP's models are in the $500 range, which is fairly cheap for what it does and the easy functionality it offers.

Where is the confusion?

Well let's look at WHS for example. It has Windows Media Connect support, so devices like the Xbox 360 can stream media from it. Then look at MCE, it has Media Center Extender support, so devices like the Xbox 360 can stream media from it. Which one is supposed to be your network media tank, the WHS box or the MCE box? This is an example of a poorly defined market segment, either the WHS box shouldn't be the media tank, or it should be able to go the last 5 feet and record television too (and farm out viewing to connected devices). Then you can look at what HP is doing, and they're giving their WHS boxes even more media features.

Now there are other things where WHS is well defined. There's no question that it's a file server, it's a backup server, it's a remote access gateway, etc. Those are all things I built my WHS box for anyhow. But the point I'm trying to make is that the media side of things needs to be settled, because that dictates how you approach building and selling such a device. MS half-assed the media aspects, and that has hurt adoption when people realize that they need an MCE box for some of this stuff.

If Apple wants to build a home server, they need to wait until a market segment is clearly defined so that they know what they're building. Apple is not an early mover, launching a WHS-like box before 2010 (or really, before WHSv2) would be an early move.

 

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Kaido
I'm curious as to what they're using to get Time Machine working properly with a non-Time Capsule/Airport Extreme system.

I have a gut feeling that they're enabling the SMB hack for Time Machine and directing backups to the server via that, perhaps in conjunction with a hidden SMB mounted volume. I have been told that the SMB hack isn't fully capable of handling Time Machine because it can't make bootable backups of the OS, which is consistent with the claims I've seen that the new MSS suffers a similar limitation. We shall see though.).

Looks like that's what they've done. This guy also offers a workaround (which appears to be untested)...

 

[ViRGE]

No one is really going to know until the boxes ship and someone has a chance to break one down. He's making the same conjecture I am, however it is the most likely explanation and most likely the correct answer. As I've said before I hope they aren't really doing the SMB hacks, because those aren't reliable and since it's a Mac OS X limitation it's not something HP can really fix on their own.