Anyone else want the Patriot Act to die? Today?

[Doc Savage Fan]

I remember the hysteria against the Patriot Act in this forum during Bush's tenure. Now...not so much.

 

[Mike64]

The dems held both houses of congress for 2 years under Obama while wild-eyed Republicans foamed at the mouth, nipping at their heels every step of the way.

There, FTFY.

Buy anyway... Have you seen me defend Obama's, or anyone's, support for the Act? I was outraged when it originally passed, when only 1 Senator (a Democrat) and only a handful of Representatives (virtually none Republican) had the guts to to vote against the damned thing in the first place. But let's remember the political context in which it was drafted, and whose Administration fought like rabid wildcats for the most heinous provisions, including some which only, almost miraculously, barely failed to make it into law, shall we? (I could add, though not relevant to this specific discussion, whose Administration decided, against well-established statistics and authoritative opinion, that torture was not only effective, but legal - though not so legal that they publicly acknowledged it until forced to?)

But letting all that pass, and ignoring completely the first time it came up for reauthorization, let's fast-forward right to the present. If we're blaming one party vs another - what about all the recently elected Tea Party/Neo Con-ass-kissing Republicans? The ones who, just a few months ago, campaigned largely, when not exclusively, on the basis of opposing everything the Obama Administration was doing, because... Obama? Well, they're in office now. What exactly have they been doing about it, even when all they had to do was something they're extremely good at - nothing? Where'd all that vaunted Republican horsehit rhetoric about keeping the Government out of people's lives go? Oh, right. They never mean real-flesh-and-blood people, just big-business-corporate-"people". Silly me, what was I thinking?

 

[OutHouse]

I remember the hysteria against the Patriot Act in this forum during Bush's tenure. Now...not so much.

yea its funny how when a republican is in office the the dimocrat boot lickers in here shit raving mad with rage over the patriot act, but when a dem is in office its no big deal, we need to to keep the big bad terrorist away, the NSA is only collecting meta data on us so who cares. then a Republican stands up to get rid of the piece of shit the dunderhead democrats tar and feather him.

seriously wtf?

 

[Jimzz]

yea its funny how when a republican is in office the the dimocrat boot lickers in here shit raving mad with rage over the patriot act, but when a dem is in office its no big deal, we need to to keep the big bad terrorist away, the NSA is only collecting meta data on us so who cares. then a Republican stands up to get rid of the piece of shit the dunderhead democrats tar and feather him.

seriously wtf?

Where do you see people supporting this? Let alone democrats in mass supporting it?

 

[dank69]

yea its funny how when a republican is in office the the dimocrat boot lickers in here shit raving mad with rage over the patriot act, but when a dem is in office its no big deal, we need to to keep the big bad terrorist away, the NSA is only collecting meta data on us so who cares. then a Republican stands up to get rid of the piece of shit the dunderhead democrats tar and feather him.

seriously wtf?

You guys are fucking blind.

 

[inachu]

It depends on the lifestyle you live.
If you do nothing wrong and do not like living in a glass house then yeah you will hate it.

But maybe when you are famous just maybe something like this can save your life.

These are the pictures I took when the pentagon was hit:
http://www.oocities.org/inachu7777/images/imageindex.html

Would listening on phones prevent 9-11? A part of me says no.

 

[GTaudiophile]

There will be replacement legislation and from what I've heard it could be voted on in as early as 24 to 48 hours. We are in a phase in this nation where it's highly important that government knows what its people are doing. This desire is bi-partisan. But that's not really the best way to define it. This is better: It's deemed to be required by our government and as such it will be implemented one way or another.

If you've been paying any attention to what Congress has been doing after the last mid-term, you should understand that the two parties exist to give people the allusion that they have a choice.

We don't have a government of the people by the people for the people anymore. We have a government that serves those that can get themselves elected as well as serving those that helped them get there. That there is a difference between Republicans and Democrats is an allusion. Domestic spying is a necessity to all of them regardless of which letter they chose to go after their name. Enjoy your "freedom". It will only be available for a limited time.

QFT

 

[Mike64]

yea its funny how when a republican is in office the the dimocrat boot lickers in here shit raving mad with rage over the patriot act, but when a dem is in office its no big deal, we need to to keep the big bad terrorist away, the NSA is only collecting meta data on us so who cares. then a Republican stands up to get rid of the piece of shit the dunderhead democrats tar and feather him.

seriously wtf?

Kinda funny that you mention hysteria and then proceed to rave away like a lunatic...

 

[Mike64]

It depends on the lifestyle you live.
If you do nothing wrong and do not like living in a glass house then yeah you will hate it.

Or if you just don't like the most paranoid among the government's employees receiving carte blanche to investigate, intimidate and prosecute anyone for anything - from alleged terrorism on down to local crimes.

But maybe when you are famous just maybe something like this can save your life.

These are the pictures I took when the pentagon was hit:
http://www.oocities.org/inachu7777/images/imageindex.html

In the scheme of things, only a few "famous people" were seriously threatened, much less died. Most of the latter were extremely ordinary people, like you and me. The "famous" ones who could, ran away and hid in bunkers. I live in New York City. Fortunately, I didn't work in or near the WTC, nor did any close friends or family members. I did have acquaintances who worked there and died, as well as an elderly neighbor who almost certainly would have died had she not happened to stay home that day because she wasn't feeling well. And who was, as one might imagine, nearly a basket case for some time after the event. It was not only horrifying to watch unfold in real time on TV as I and my coworkers did in a conference room at the office, knowing it was happening just a couple of miles away. It was indeed surreal, as was the aftermath. A little more than 3 miles north of the site, my neighborhood smelled like smoke for a couple of days afterward. But that doesn't mean I supported mass hysteria at the time - in the form of the Patriot Act under discussion in this thread, nor do I support it now. The only positive thing, such as it is, that I can say about the USAPA, is that everyone's preoccupation with it derailed the first Bush, Jr's Administration's concerted efforts, under way at the time, to grotesquely alter the landscape of national domestic policy.

Would listening on phones prevent 9-11? A part of me says no.

Every part of me says no. Law enforcement fucked that one up big time, from start to finish, and they had more information than simply a few randomly overheard telephone conversations. It's quite simple procedurally and certainly not a difficult substantive legal hurdle to obtain warrants for phone taps with the lightest evidence of wrongdoing, there's no reason to allow mass surveillance with little or no oversight.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Kinda funny that you mention hysteria and then proceed to rave away like a lunatic...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Using the free choice paradigm, Sharot and colleagues have shown that after making a choice, activity in the striatum changes to reflect the new evaluation of the choice object, increasing if the object was chosen and decreasing if it was rejected.[61] Follow-up studies have largely confirmed these results.[52][62][63]

Subsequent fMRI studies, also using the free choice paradigm, have examined the decision-making process in the brain. A 2010 study showed that during decision-making processes where the participant is trying to reduce dissonance, activity increased in the right-inferior frontal gyrus, medial fronto-parietal region and ventral striatum, whereas activity decreased in the anterior insula.[63] Researchers concluded that rationalization activity may take place quickly (within seconds) without conscious deliberation. In addition, the researchers stated that the brain may engage emotional responses in the decision-making process.[63]

 

[werepossum]

Edward Snowden is a true American hero. Don't think so? See "Citizenfour," Laura Poitras' Acadamy Award winning documentary about how our government has violated the U.S. Constitution and spied on all of us.

We will never defeat evil by becoming the evil we seek to defeat.

Well said.

There will be replacement legislation and from what I've heard it could be voted on in as early as 24 to 48 hours. We are in a phase in this nation where it's highly important that government knows what its people are doing. This desire is bi-partisan. But that's not really the best way to define it. This is better: It's deemed to be required by our government and as such it will be implemented one way or another.

If you've been paying any attention to what Congress has been doing after the last mid-term, you should understand that the two parties exist to give people the allusion that they have a choice.

We don't have a government of the people by the people for the people anymore. We have a government that serves those that can get themselves elected as well as serving those that helped them get there. That there is a difference between Republicans and Democrats is an allusion. Domestic spying is a necessity to all of them regardless of which letter they chose to go after their name. Enjoy your "freedom". It will only be available for a limited time.

Also well said.

The Act needs to expire. Most terrorists are caught not because of NSA spying, but because FBI stings or informants. The NSA has collected tons and tons of data and all collecting it does is make them focus on getting more data but not about getting knowledge out of the data.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/01/26/whole-haystack

Yep. To paraphrase Sun Tzu: He who listens to everything, hears nothing.

I too stand with Rand. I don't doubt that there are some parts of the Patriot Act which deserve to be renewed, but they should be slowly and carefully debated, with emphasis on oversight and how we keep those from becoming The Patriot Act 2: The Revenge given that as Boomerang points out, both parties are fine with the Patriot Act. Even the most necessary and least onerous parts of the Patriot Act should not be voted on in a day or two.

 

[Nebor]

I was a fan of the Patriot Act from the beginning, and never stopped believing in it. Sad to see it go. Though I'm confident that the NSA will continue to do what's necessary to defend our nation.

 

[werepossum]

I was a fan of the Patriot Act from the beginning, and never stopped believing in it. Sad to see it go. Though I'm confident that the NSA will continue to do what's necessary to defend our nation from itself.

Fixed that for ya!

 

[Mike64]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

I suspect the Dunning-Kruger Effect plays a role as well. (sigh)

 

[DucatiMonster696]

I suspect the Dunning-Kruger Effect plays a role as well. (sigh)

LOL How ironic.

 

[JSt0rm]

You guys are crazy. I contacted both my congressman and senator and told them on this issue I was a single issue voter. Henry Waxman (my congressman) voted against reauthorizing the patriot act in 2005. How did your congresscritter fair?

This idea that the democrats are as bad as the republicans is the only thing you guys have left and its getting tired.

 

[JSt0rm]

I was a fan of the Patriot Act from the beginning, and never stopped believing in it. Sad to see it go. Though I'm confident that the NSA will continue to do what's necessary to defend our nation.

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” - bf

 

[MongGrel]

Even if it dies, do you think it will stop ?

Who would be verifying that actually ?

Though I'm confident that the NSA will continue to do what's necessary to defend our nation.

Yeah, that.

They'll continue to Hoover things, I'm sure. *Rimshot*

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

You guys are crazy. I contacted both my congressman and senator and told them on this issue I was a single issue voter. Henry Waxman (my congressman) voted against reauthorizing the patriot act in 2005. How did your congresscritter fair?

This idea that the democrats are as bad as the republicans is the only thing you guys have left and its getting tired.

Since you're a single issue voter, how do you feel about Obama now supporting this? Do you still feel as outraged now as you did in 2005? And lastly, would you actually vote for Rand over Obama hypothetically speaking? Not trying to be a dick here, just curious more than anything.

 

[MongGrel]

Rand is a poser, like Romney.

I hope this actually hurts him.

 

[Nebor]

Even if it dies, do you think it will stop ?

Who would be verifying that actually ?

That's what the NSA OIG is charged with.

 

[Mike64]

LOL How ironic.

If you're addressing me, you're going to have expand on that if you expect a substantive reply...

 

[MongGrel]

That's what the NSA OIG is charged with.

So, basically they police themselves, of course.

Kinda like the EPA these days I think

Like I said ....

 

[sportage]

Wow. So many against the NSA knowing what you are up to.
So... I ask, what exactly ARE you up to?
I don't get all this paranoia.

All they'd get from me are calls to mom, and text asking WHERE R U?
While waiting for the rest of the crowd to show up at Perkins.

I guess we'll see have to wait and if the act is needed. And the hard way, naturally.
So when your city is nuked by terrorist because the HSA could not trace and track cell calls, don't cry about it.

As for Randy Paul, does anyone really believe he actually gives a rats ass or knows what he is even talking about? Ever? Concerning any subject?
You wouldn't think his big mouth has anything to do with, oh... maybe... that there are 20+ candidates running for president under the republican ticket, now would you?

Believe me, we don't want a Randy Paul as our president.
I mean... THAT HAIR? And for 4 looooooong years?
I don't think so. No sir re bob.

Shit, he can't even spell his first name correctly.
Randy is missing a letter, and missing a screw as well.
We've heard of having a screw loose, but missing an entire screw altogether?
Don't get me started...

And Randy is exactly the type that despite what he now says, he would go full hog wanting the NSA to spy under a Randy Paul administration.
If for no other reason but to know what people are saying about HIM.
You ain't see paranoia like Randy paranoia.
The NSA tactics are right up his alley. So don't kid yourself.

 

[IronWing]

Wow. So many against the NSA knowing what you are up to.

There is no legitimate state interest in knowing what I'm up to.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The NSA has not established a reasonable basis for mass snooping and has certainly not obtained a warrant based upon probable cause.