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Anyone else sick of the Anti MS attiude from young guns?

C

clarkey01

Diamond Member
For the people who think it's cool to bitch about Microsoft why dont you all get a MAC...

Why don't you try witting 50 million lines of code for Vista , getting it to work with every single device, software driver ever made in every environment an get it right.

It's called an open platform..There not apple and I'm glad of it. Not saying MAC's dont have there place, there are plenty of these " arty" people around with ego's to preserve and snobbery to uphold.But seriously, I'm sure there good for something.

What gets me is that ppl feel the need to put MS down because of apple, I dont get why apple spend so much of there time talking about all the things MS are doing wrong and poking fun, my teacher once said to me " Those that can do..Those who cant talk about it"

You only have to see MAC world on youtube from every year and those guys clap everytime Jobs takes a low blow and it seems people are reflecting this.

In case you wondering why Im witting this I just had an hour debate explaining to someone why his pc doesnt always work the way it should and he came back with all these MAC myths " they dont crash, they don't get viruses , they looker cooler" and the usually MS bashing " crash man, slow and ugly". It doesn't help my argument that this guy uses limnwire, has a ton of porn and spy ware on his machine, on a ancient Celeron 1.2 Ghz, 256 DDR 333 and intel extreme graphics. It seemed to go over his head that he couldn't even do that to a mac or choose to.


I just think sometimes we don't recognize how much windows and microsoft have improved our quality of life. I'm 21 and doing a year in industry as part of my degree and I'm not cool and hip because I don't believe the hype and don't want to be cool.

I could make more arguments or perhaps reinforce or better structure the sense I am trying to articulate but I'm tired.

Anyone get me ?
 
I :heart: Vista

Mac = :thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

FWIW I've sadly had over a decade of experience with Macs. Up until OS X they crashed/froze just as much, if not more, than any Windows PC. Hell even OS X has crashed on me more than Vista, although I thankfully I haven't had to touch a Mac since around the time Tiger was released, so they may have improved on that somewhat.
 
The thing is that apple could be a real contender if they stopped with their attitude of putting a DRM on everything, including the os.


I can't say MS has improved my quality of life.
I see many business decisions where they used their position to crush the competition before it could even get a foot hold.
I do often wonder what it would have been like had MS decided not to pursue windows.
 
If it wasn't for Microsoft, and IBM for that matter, we wouldn't be be building our computers.

We would have to go to a store and buy proprietary hardware.

Computer builder's forums wouldn't exist.

They would be replaced by the Computer User's Forums.
 
Originally posted by: JustaGeek
If it wasn't for Microsoft, and IBM for that matter, we wouldn't be be building our computers.

We would have to go to a store and buy proprietary hardware.

Computer builder's forums wouldn't exist.

They would be replaced by the Computer User's Forums.
Click to expand...

Somewhat true.
Although IBM did have tons of proprietary hardware in the ps/2.
I wonder what pc's would be like now had os/2 suceeded .
I actually still have a boxed copy of os /2 on 5.25 disk.
 
Originally posted by: Modelworks
OSX is useable on a normal pc, but hardware support is a major problem.
Click to expand...

Not from Apple's point of view. From Apple's point of view, if you're not a pirate, the OS works perfectly.

People shouldn't pirate OS X. C'mon - the Apple hardware just isn't _that_ expensive anymore.
 
Originally posted by: clarkey01
For the people who think it's cool to bitch about Microsoft why dont you all get a MAC...

Why don't you try witting 50 million lines of code for Vista , getting it to work with every single device, software driver ever made in every environment an get it right.
Click to expand...

Billy, you here on the forum? 🙂



Edit: On a more serious sidenote...i dont think is mainly MS's task to "get HW to work with Windows"...but rather a job for the ones writing device drivers FOR windows, not vice versa as you imply 🙂

Uhm..just example the new Audio stack which disregards DirectSound and renders EAX and whatever Creative did useless...sure it is creative's job to support the OS and get their ****/drivers/hardware working. Or are you seriously implying that MS developers spent lots and lots of time crying and pulling their hair because they sooooo desperately wanted it to work 100% and without any bugs with any existing hardware ...

>>
I'm 21 and doing a year in industry as part of my degree and I'm not cool and hip because I don't believe the hype and don't want to be co
>>>
Thats interesting indeed!
Maybe, once a few years pass you will agree that other hardware architecture might be better than the current PC architecture, and maybe MAC is actually a better architecture than PC. I cant say too much about MAC sicne i never had one...i just know that 20+ years ago there was already better h/w and OS out, for example Amiga.
It should also be no secret that Win INDEED is a very, very bad OS, its poorly written based on what we had 30+ years ago...one thing stacked up on the other with ENORMOUS hardware requirements BECAUSE it is so poorly written.

I still come from a generation where people wrote programs in assembler, and a good OS was fast and took advantage of the hardware.....TODAY you need mega-hardware to run a MEDIOCRE OS halfa$$ and its still not fast.
If the code sucks...well...just spend another $500 on a faster CPU to "compensate".
Anyway, even totally saying that Win/Vista is a very, very bad OS i do use it since we dont have a choice in that matter. Linux for sure wouldnt be the better alternative for normal human beings 🙂

And..btw...maybe MACs really never crash...maybe the OS is really, really superb..and maybe PPC owns any Intel Quad....possible. Doesnt matter really. But we still have the right to bitch about Win/Vista 🙂
 
Originally posted by: flexy
[i just know that 20+ years ago there was already better h/w and OS out, for example Amiga.
Click to expand...

Sure, 20 years ago it was better than Win3.1, but it doesn't compare to the modern OSs like NT4, Win2k, XP, and Vista. AmigaOS 680x0 never even had VM; be serious!

It should also be no secret that Win INDEED is a very, very bad OS, its poorly written based on what we had 30+ years ago...one thing stacked up on the other with ENORMOUS hardware requirements BECAUSE it is so poorly written.
Click to expand...

Enormous? C'mon - I just paid $700 for a QUAD core 2.4 ghz machine *with* 24" monitor. Amigas were horribly expensive once 1994 or so hit and graphics cards starting being a commodity.

I still come from a generation where people wrote programs in assembler, and a good OS was fast and took advantage of the hardware.....
Click to expand...

Sure, and any programmer can tell you that it's very difficult to develop in assembler, takes 4-10x longer, and results in very little performance difference for most tasks - which is why nobody does it anymore.

TODAY you need mega-hardware to run a MEDIOCRE OS halfa$$ and its still not fast.
If the code sucks...well...just spend another $500 on a faster CPU to "compensate".
Anyway, even totally saying that Win/Vista is a very, very bad OS i do use it since we dont have a choice in that matter. Linux for sure wouldnt be the better alternative for normal human beings 🙂
Click to expand...

$500 on a faster CPU? What CPUs are *you* buying? Even the cheapest Intel CPU they make right now is 10x (if not 100x faster) faster than the fastest Amiga.

And..btw...maybe MACs really never crash...maybe the OS is really, really superb..and maybe PPC owns any Intel Quad....possible. Doesnt matter really. But we still have the right to bitch about Win/Vista 🙂
Click to expand...

MacOS is very good, and the Unix OSs (I'm being redundant) are very good too. But MS has commoditized software, and made X86 hardware into a commodity as well. That's a good thing.
 
In academia, good luck finding people using PC's. I feel like an outcast advocating PC's. Our lab comp (as well as the rest of the lab comps) are all PC's since we have other software to use on them, but a lot of people use mac's for personal computers.
 
In academia, good luck finding people using PC's.
Click to expand...

Funny, I haven't noticed that and am in one of the largest school districts in the nation. I was having a bit of trouble installing Linux for the first time (just curious) and asked an adjunct professor if he knew of a teach that could help. He said "are you insane, this is a MS campus."

My mother is a school principal here, and knows of only a few teachers that use Macs. In fact the area Apple rep was more than happy to give her a Macbook Pro to hold onto for a month to give it a test drive. Or more likely to use an emotional ownership type sales technique.

I would imagine the use of Apple computers student wise will be higher or lower depending on local fad culture and what type of school it is. An art design school would of course have more Mac users.

I do work in Cinema 4D, Endorphin, ClayTools, Poser, Photoshop, etc. and the landscape is changing from the "Mac has graphic arts locked down" attitude, to "anyone who is serious about 3D uses a PC". So if you think about it, MS has actually stolen some of Apple's bread and butter, and it isn't because they suck. Render something extremely complex for a week on a Windows machine without it crashing and get back to me on how bad it is. IMO quality Intel chips on Intel chipsets configured correctly by experienced users/techs have no equal in reliability.

Maybe Microsoft makes great software, maybe PC's hardly ever crash, and the virus thing....well, if you write virus code who's your target audience? Not the Mac, and it's the only reason why there isn't much Mac viri.

If you make a million or a billion of anything, and have a 99% success rate, you still have a lot of unhappy people talking to each other.
 
Originally posted by: dclive
Originally posted by: Modelworks
OSX is useable on a normal pc, but hardware support is a major problem.
Click to expand...

Not from Apple's point of view. From Apple's point of view, if you're not a pirate, the OS works perfectly.

People shouldn't pirate OS X. C'mon - the Apple hardware just isn't _that_ expensive anymore.
Click to expand...

I want to build my machine, not have someone build it for me. I take pleasure and pride in my machines. And even if it isn't that expensive, why pay a price premium for hardware just to use a specific OS. I'll keep to linux & windows as much as I can.
 
>>>
Sure, 20 years ago it was better than Win3.1, but it doesn't compare to the modern OSs like NT4, Win2k, XP, and Vista. AmigaOS 680x0 never even had VM; be serious!
>>>

yes its a different story now, but i still think that for its time it was a VERY good OS a. Amiga H/W, and then for today MAC, PPC hardware is (probably) a way better computer architecture than PC.

>>>
Enormous? C'mon - I just paid $700 for a QUAD core 2.4 ghz machine *with* 24" monitor. Amigas were horribly expensive once 1994 or so hit and graphics cards starting being a commodity.
>>>

Well i said you need enormous hardware to run a mediocre OS mediocre 🙂

Give me a break. 20 years ago we had a CPU with not even 8(!) mhz and 1MB system memory and a OS and it already had Icons and Windows and BASICALLY many features we have now..some we still dont have on PC, many things which made a lot of sense.
Now we run 4 cores at 4GHZ at 4-8GB ram using Vista, and things still can go lame 😉


>>>
I still come from a generation where people wrote programs in assembler, and a good OS was fast and took advantage of the hardware.....
Click to expand...

Sure, and any programmer can tell you that it's very difficult to develop in assembler, takes 4-10x longer, and results in very little performance difference for most tasks - which is why nobody does it anymore.
>>>

i agree, this has becoem irrelevant since we now tend to get a faster CPU and loads of mem since with hardware you can compensate for EVERYTHING...you can write the slowest and least effective code and just tell everyone to get a fast system...sooner or later it will run "ok" even if the code sucks.
It would be nonsense today, compilers are pretty good...but this just as an example of the shift in thinking.


>>>
TODAY you need mega-hardware to run a MEDIOCRE OS halfa$$ and its still not fast.
If the code sucks...well...just spend another $500 on a faster CPU to "compensate".
Anyway, even totally saying that Win/Vista is a very, very bad OS i do use it since we dont have a choice in that matter. Linux for sure wouldnt be the better alternative for normal human beings 🙂
Click to expand...

$500 on a faster CPU? What CPUs are *you* buying? Even the cheapest Intel CPU they make right now is 10x (if not 100x faster) faster than the fastest Amiga.
>>>

surely i exaggerated ! My apologies ! But my point is still that Win (insert your flavor here) is inefficient and i can very well see and believe that MAC OS is a far better OS than Win.

But here we have the same situation as with Windows:

MACs seem to be established with a certain breed of people, and especially using certain established software...and those people use MACs because whatever they use it for has been established well on MACs already.....and we do the same thing here using Win, be it games or certain applications or maybe also knowing that on a PC you have the widest variety of software available. Doesn't matter whether the underlying OS is actually bad.
 
surely i exaggerated ! My apologies ! But my point is still that Win (insert your flavor here) is inefficient and i can very well see and believe that MAC OS is a far better OS than Win.
Click to expand...

Like you always do,anyway does not matter for we gamers out there since Microsoft/Windows gaming support is so far ahead of what Apple can offer its not even funny.

Bottomline Microsoft OS is far superior to MAC where gaming market is concerned.

Doesn't matter whether the underlying OS is actually bad.
Click to expand...

Speak for yourself only,Microsoft OS is not as bad as some people make it out to be,sure its not perfect but then no OS is perfect and I would not even put MAC OS at the top of my list,Microsoft Windows from a gaming point of view is solid enough and also good enough for general use.

I'm old school ie Atari/ Commodore 64,Amiga user so have seen a lot of changes over the years.

You have to hand it to Microsoft how they have cornered the PC gaming market.

I just wish Linux had the same sort of gaming market as Microsoft Windows.
 
MAC handles a definite set of hardware devices that's why it appears more stable. Since there aren't any competent apps for MAC- all the processing power that is available is used on multimedia and interface enchantments.

This isn't possible for Windows. But it is still rock solid in its class - because a lot of people's livelihood depends on it- anyone who says it sucks is in Bills own choice of words - A Dullard. Windows design is always a compromise when it comes to features because those features have to be compatible among thousands of hardware devices and software applications. A transition is always slow and unwelcoming at start because any change is going have a massive impact on the industry.
 

I'm just happy that I'm able to run vmware console, run 4 OS's on there ( 2000 x 2, 2003 x 1 and XP X1), as well as gaming.

For the money I spent on this rig (£1100) I wouldnt of been able to get a mac and do the same operations ( Game, heavy Vmware).

I know I'm a little young on this board and there some far more experianced and higher IQ fella's on here but I'm glad some ppl understand my frustrations, perhaps I am becoming emotionally attached but when you spend your life learning X86 based OS's, spent 1000's on equipment and degree's, it's a kick in the teeth when someone with a " Myspace page" tells you that windows "suxs". If anything in recent years I see the mac following the PC..

I'm trying to get altiris certified for deployment solution and notification server at the moment before returning to finish my degree, it' just gets under my skin when ppl dont appreiacte that programs and software suits like Altiris wouldnt exsit if it wasnt for windows...Who knows such things.

 
I don't understand operating system loyalties in general. I use Windows primarily because I'm comfortable with it and it works for what I need to do.
 
I just think sometimes we don't recognize how much windows and microsoft have improved our quality of life. I'm 21 and doing a year in industry as part of my degree and I'm not cool and hip because I don't believe the hype and don't want to be cool.
Click to expand...

such refreshing outspoken ness.

the first time i preferred a PC was about 1996, running Visual Basic on Windows 95. i stayed with Macs through System 8.6.

in about 2003 i was at a Fry's with about 20 minutes to kill, so i decided to check out OSX on a CRT iMac. file navigation, creating a Simpletext document - couldn't do it ! i would have needed an instruction manual.

most recently, i am in a Flash class where the instructor alternates between a Mac and a PC, using an applications named Elluminate Live, which is sort of like a live streaming version of Camtasia (so he can teach on-line students and class room students.) the same Mic he used last week on the Mac would not work. he got increasingly red-faced, which i guess happens when you are thinking expletives but restraining yourself from speaking them out loud.

maybe next week i'll bring a selection of headsets.

i can understand why people like the Mac. i like the visual effect when applications close and open.

but other things, like the monolithic door on the optical drive on a Mac workstation, WTF ? i can't just push a button to open the door ?

 
I think people who treat their computers in a feverent way are just victims of marketing, really.
 
Heh, see I find it strange that people are so passionate about their OS. I don't see why Mac people have to bash PC and I don't see why Windows people have to defend their OS everytime someone says something. Everyone got their own preference and their way of using their PC. Get the freaking OS that best suit your need, and stop making OS an extension of yourself and make it seem more superior then the others.

Both Mac and Windows have their places, as well as Linux. Pick the one you need and don't force your opinion down other people's throat. And yeah, if your friend is an idiot and don't know how to get his PC to work and think Mac is gonna solve his problem, let him buy his Mac. It's his money. And no Mac is not cool, it's just another piece of hardware with some spec, some specs that are better then the other, some that are not.
 
Originally posted by: wwswimming
in about 2003 i was at a Fry's with about 20 minutes to kill, so i decided to check out OSX on a CRT iMac. file navigation, creating a Simpletext document - couldn't do it ! i would have needed an instruction manual.
Click to expand...

I can't say I've ever been stumped by a computer on how to make a text document. I find that very hard to believe. In fact, I've been able to adequately use almost every single computer I've ever sat down at without training. The sole exception to this was my first time on unix without a gui. I had used linux, but not much command line exp. I had a job where it was all solaris with no X. that required training because I need to know command names. I can't imagine someone needing training on how to use basic functions of a desktop.
 
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