Anyone else get Building Permit BS ??

[Micrornd]

I debated whether to post this in OT Discussion or Home & Garden, but I ended up in H&G.
Bear with me -

In 2013 we built 2 small all PT lumber decks at the house (12 x16, 8x8). They required a permit, which in turn required a site plan (I drew it), a survey (I paid for it), construction plans (I drew them) and misc. paperwork.
Then modify plans to suit building dept., after 3 weeks pick up and post permit, build deck frame, frame inspection, install deck boards and handrail, final inspection, permit finaled out/completed, done, sit on deck, cuss wife for wanting deck, pick self up off deck and say "sorry, dear".
Fast forward to the present, the wife wants to replace the PT deck boards with AZEK (PVC) deck boards, so sulk off to the Building Dept. for a permit.

Now, they still require misc. paperwork, and a new site plan (can't use the old one, although nothing's changed), a NEW survey (even though the site plan and the 8 yr. old survey show the decks virtually centered in our 1/2 acre plot, and AFAIK the decks haven't been wandering around the property, 'course I do sleep at night, so I guess anything's possible).
And now for the coup de grâce, to replace the deck boards, I must provide construction drawings signed and sealed by an engineer.

I honestly thought they misunderstood what we were doing, but, no, they made it very clear they understood what I was doing and to replace the existing deck boards, I absolutely must have those construction drawings signed and sealed by an engineer.
At this rate I may as well be living in Cali instead of FL.

 

[herm0016]

Lol, you got a permit for that? Just do it.

 

[Torn Mind]

There is usually a hidden old boys club as Inspectors obviously come out of the "industry" where they know a few bosses or two. Most likely your city passed a law requiring an engineer at some point.....

This is "stimulus" and a after effect of increasing population density.

 

[Micrornd]

Lol, you got a permit for that? Just do it.

Tried that once at my brother's.....Tax Assessor doing their assessing every 3rd year comes around and reports/checks anything new added to the property with the building dept., then come the violations/fines. It's a racket.

 

[Torn Mind]

Tried that once at my brother's.....Tax Assessor doing their assessing every 3rd year comes around and reports/checks anything new added to the property with the building dept., then come the violations/fines. It's a racket.

That level of checking is sure greater than where I'm at in Maryland if it is an owner occupied house. You can do stuff as long as no one reports you for the most part although selling the house might have people check.

 

[pete6032]

Are you just swapping out the old board for new ones? Would an assessor even notice?

 

[Greenman]

I debated whether to post this in OT Discussion or Home & Garden, but I ended up in H&G.
Bear with me -

In 2013 we built 2 small all PT lumber decks at the house (12 x16, 8x8). They required a permit, which in turn required a site plan (I drew it), a survey (I paid for it), construction plans (I drew them) and misc. paperwork.
Then modify plans to suit building dept., after 3 weeks pick up and post permit, build deck frame, frame inspection, install deck boards and handrail, final inspection, permit finaled out/completed, done, sit on deck, cuss wife for wanting deck, pick self up off deck and say "sorry, dear".
Fast forward to the present, the wife wants to replace the PT deck boards with AZEK (PVC) deck boards, so sulk off to the Building Dept. for a permit.

Now, they still require misc. paperwork, and a new site plan (can't use the old one, although nothing's changed), a NEW survey (even though the site plan and the 8 yr. old survey show the decks virtually centered in our 1/2 acre plot, and AFAIK the decks haven't been wandering around the property, 'course I do sleep at night, so I guess anything's possible).
And now for the coup de grâce, to replace the deck boards, I must provide construction drawings signed and sealed by an engineer.

I honestly thought they misunderstood what we were doing, but, no, they made it very clear they understood what I was doing and to replace the existing deck boards, I absolutely must have those construction drawings signed and sealed by an engineer.
At this rate I may as well be living in Cali instead of FL.

That's flat out bazar.

 

[BoomerD]

Are you just swapping out the old board for new ones? Would an assessor even notice?

Lol, you got a permit for that? Just do it.

I can kind of see needing a permit for a new deck...especially if it's attached to the house, but a permit to replace the boards? Nope.

 

[Gardener]

How high is the deck above grade?

 

[PowerEngineer]

Well, I'm thinking Florida needs to concentrate more on high-rise condominiums than on wooden decks...

My first house came with a completely unfinished back yard, and I went "all in" pouring a 100 sq foot concrete patio and building an 1200 sq foot two-tier deck (with stairs). I was in the process of adding a small wood/concrete block 10'x8' shed to the back side of the house when I found a "stop work" order stapled to my front door. (I think one of my neighbors must have ratted on me.)

The planning department tells me I need a building permit for the shed. I draw up the plan for the shed and submit it; they charge me $35 and tell me I can finish it. I'm told that I wouldn't have needed a permit if it hadn't been attached to the house. Meanwhile, no one seems to notice or care about the new deck that is also attached to the house...

 

[Micrornd]

How high is the deck above grade?

Less than 30", and was permitted and built to beyond code by choice (2x8 12"oc, 2x12 beams 6' oc, etc., solid as a rock)

 

[Micrornd]

Are you just swapping out the old board for new ones? Would an assessor even notice?

PT vs AZEK (pvc) probably.
Yep, they seem to notice every thing (taxes). Taxes are very low in FL compared to many other states, so they look harder.

I topped my shell driveway with 4" of ground asphalt (they were repaving a state road nearby). Assessor turned me in on that, building dept said I needed a $25 driveway permit, I showed them pictures of the existing, not new, driveway from 50 years ago (former property owner) and from 30 years ago when I redid it in shell with a proper driveway permit.

Didn't matter, new material, required new permit, $25 or principle, I caved

 

[Micrornd]

That's flat out bazar.

Yep, you know the cost of signed/sealed. Engineers are "great" friends until it comes to S/S and their license (and payment).

 

[Greenman]

Yep, you know the cost of signed/sealed. Engineers are "great" friends until it comes to S/S and their license (and payment).

That and an engineer will spend any amount of your money necessary to avoid getting sued over a failure.

I've been screwing with a local building department for 5 or 6 months trying to get a permit for 12' of gas line. Everything is done through email, response time from them is around 5 weeks.

 

[Gardener]

Less than 30", and was permitted and built to beyond code by choice (2x8 12"oc, 2x12 beams 6' oc, etc., solid as a rock)

In Seattle no permit is required for decks 18" or less above grade, due to critical slope problems. Beyond that you just need a homeowner drawing of area and elevations, as well a construction plan which does not require and engineer's signature. Perhaps Florida's water table issues and previous shoddy work by developers has driven the regulations. And perhaps the lobbyists in the engineering community had a hand in crafting local regulations.

 

[sdifox]

Less than 30", and was permitted and built to beyond code by choice (2x8 12"oc, 2x12 beams 6' oc, etc., solid as a rock)

But sir, I didn't replace, I resurfaced.

 

[Micrornd]

That and an engineer will spend any amount of your money necessary to avoid getting sued over a failure.

I've been screwing with a local building department for 5 or 6 months trying to get a permit for 12' of gas line. Everything is done through email, response time from them is around 5 weeks.

Everything here is opened back up. You can walk in and get anything you need at the various County and State offices.
My biggest bitch in all this is nobody would tell me why I needed S/S drawings to replace deck boards, just "that's the requirements, anything else we can do for you today?"
At least they didn't smile when they said it

 

[Red Squirrel]

The concept of permits and building plans pisses me off, and it seems to be like that everywhere, and the BS is always getting worse and worse. Pretty soon they're going to require permits just to mount a TV to the wall. For stuff that is easy to hide I don't bother. For things that are outside I always try to find a way that does not require one. Here any deck that is lower than a certain height won't need one for example, so just make sure to build lower than that. You can always add backfill to make the ground level higher if you need to. For my shed I made sure to keep it below a certain square footage. If I had a bigger property and wanted a bigger shed I'd be better off just building two that fall under the threshold.

The thing with permits is that you pay for them forever as they make your taxes go up too. Not to mention they can easily triple the cost of the project as inspectors will always give you trouble and make you redo stuff even if it's fine. They also don't like when people overbuild stuff. For example if the span table calls for 2x6 and you use 2x8, they'll make you redo it. It's just all a big money grab and a load of BS. We should not have people telling us what to do on our own property. It's too bad most people seem to be ok with the whole process and no one is really fighting this so it's only getting worse not better.

It's why I'm looking for land in an unorganized township, don't need to deal with that crap. Hard to find though...

 

[bigi]

It is kind of like fejsbook, the concept is great but the execution is terrible. We do need proper rules to build/fix buildings and their installations, etc. We don't need to go overboard to install a new trash can.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Guess I am lucky. Permits are cheap and easy in my City.
They can be particular about zoning and such but that is their job. Minor stuff like building a larger than 8x8 shed or stairs with more than two(?) steps thing like that are pretty simple. Pay a few bucks for the permit, build then at some point someone will inspect the work and give feedback as to if it was done right or not.

 

[MrSquished]

It is kind of like fejsbook, the concept is great but the execution is terrible. We do need proper rules to build/fix buildings and their installations, etc. We don't need to go overboard to install a new trash can.

This

 

[Greenman]

Guess I am lucky. Permits are cheap and easy in my City.
They can be particular about zoning and such but that is their job. Minor stuff like building a larger than 8x8 shed or stairs with more than two(?) steps thing like that are pretty simple. Pay a few bucks for the permit, build then at some point someone will inspect the work and give feedback as to if it was done right or not.

Here in the Bay Area most city's have their own building departments. Their number one priority is generating revenue. The number two priority is having absolute control over everything that gets built, and having zero liability along with that control.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Here in the Bay Area most city's have their own building departments. Their number one priority is generating revenue. The number two priority is having absolute control over everything that gets built, and having zero liability along with that control.

Haha
Glad I do not have those problems. Two permits I got were cheap, feedback about the work was fine they didn’t expect anything to get re-built. Just stupid stuff like “should have used copper flashing”

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I'm the current trustee and executor for my Moms' family trust. I moved here (CA) after I retired, drawing income from my Virginia property. Moms could barely make it, even with the house long paid off, on her own. She's now too disabled to do anything.

But over the earlier part of the duration, I didn't insert myself in decisions about her home -- a townhome condominium unit. And I avoided this trouble over permits. Obviously, this would be a troublesome matter with the condo association. We can't install solar panels because it is the desire of the association and its board to maintain a certain appearance -- red-clay tile roofs -- for the development. If I wanted to build a trellis for partial shade over our inner patio, it would require the same thing.

So for the inner patio, I chose a solution that cannot require permits. I use a pop-up canopy with replacement canopy tent material. Technically, this sort of thing is "temporary" and "mobile". So they cannot regulate my use of it on the patio.

A next-door neighbor wanted a canopy cover on their hillside patio, and the Santa Ana winds up here make such a proposition difficult. They had to install posts in concrete after submitting a request and acquiring a permit, and they had to get my signature vouching that their canopy didn't affect my view. Their hillside patio looks nicer than ours, of course. But my domain is the inner patio, where I have my vegetable garden. I'm still thinking about what I can do to give more shade to the hillside patio. Whatever it is, it won't require building plans, requests and permissions.

I suppose this is a difference between urban and rural living. In the country, I suspect you can do whatever you want with your property. But in a city, one faces regulation, and in a homeowners' association, another layer of the same difficulty.

 

[Red Squirrel]

For solar I wonder if you could get away with making a "solar trailer". Basically a trailer that has a retractable solar array on it. Register it as a trailer and have proper plate and documentation for it. I heard of ham radio operators using a truck to mount a 100ft easily retractable antenna in the box and the HOA can't do F all. Great little trick to get around the ridiculous rules. Or you can go all out and buy a used tank from government auctions and watch them try to tow it when you leave it parked at the end of your driveway.