Anyone dealt with Quicken Loans?

[cpals]

I'm trying to refinance my house via a FHA streamline process, which means there is no appraisal needed. Which is good since my house is very under water... owe $160k and it's valued at $60k right now (go Florida!).

Anyways, I contacted Quicken Loans and discussed refinancing and the guy seemed a little pushy but I figured they were all that way. So he said that they would need a $400 good faith deposit, but it was refundable until I signed the agreement and then it would be used against the contract pricing. I got the contract to 4.75%/5.436% APR (30-year fixed), which was better than what Bank of America quoted me the same night. It was going to be less than $1000 out of pocket, which was important to me since we're strapped for money right now.

I hadn't signed any agreements or sent them any documents because I was having some friends review the agreement and today the guy I was dealing with, his boss (Director of Banking) emailed me stating that my guy messed up and told me the wrong information and that I should have been charged, but they're not going to charge me now since it was their fault somehow because he wasn't supposed to lock the interest rate in unless he charged me (opposite of what he told me). Also, in his email he said that it's locked in at 4.5% until tomorrow (24 hours) and I need to make a decision or else the deal is off... sounds like cars salesman tactics, but I was confused about the 4.5% since my initial agreement stated 4.75%.

I emailed him back asking if the new contract reflected the 4.5% interest and whatever the new APR was and he replied back 'what should it be set at?' I'm not sure he realized he stated a rate lower than I was getting. So long story even longer, I got him to get it in writing the 4.5% interest/5.1% APR.

The whole thing kind of smelled fishy to me, but if I somehow get out ahead then I'm wondering if I should go forward even if they went about it bad.

Thoughts?

 

[Gibson486]

That's the biggest problem with online lenders....you thought they you locked into a rate when that was not that rate at all. It is one of the reasons why realtors see buyers with local banks/mortgage reps as less risky. Lots of times, the deals do not finish. When you go on line, you are going through a rep who represents lenders. When you go to a bank, you are talking to the actual lender.

 

[cpals]

So I just started comparing my two agreements and in the new one with my 'supposed' better rate @ 4.5, they charged me $202 to discount the percentage and also my lender credit has been reduced from $3,900 to $3,000. My estimated cash needed at closing went from $656 to $1,741!!!

Did they think I would just sign it blindly??? This just reeks of corruptness. The guy never said anything about increasing fees or anything. I even called the lender who I initially spoke with (prior to comparing the docs) and he wanted me to start signing stuff and I told him I was on the edge a little and felt like it was some sort of hustle and he said "how can it be a hustle when we're giving you an even better rate than before?" I think my days with them are over.

 

[ebaycj]

I'm trying to refinance my house via a FHA streamline process, which means there is no appraisal needed. Which is good since my house is very under water... owe $160k and it's valued at $60k right now (go Florida!).

Anyways, I contacted Quicken Loans and discussed refinancing and the guy seemed a little pushy but I figured they were all that way. So he said that they would need a $400 good faith deposit, but it was refundable until I signed the agreement and then it would be used against the contract pricing. I got the contract to 4.75%/5.436% APR (30-year fixed), which was better than what Bank of America quoted me the same night. It was going to be less than $1000 out of pocket, which was important to me since we're strapped for money right now.

I hadn't signed any agreements or sent them any documents because I was having some friends review the agreement and today the guy I was dealing with, his boss (Director of Banking) emailed me stating that my guy messed up and told me the wrong information and that I should have been charged, but they're not going to charge me now since it was their fault somehow because he wasn't supposed to lock the interest rate in unless he charged me (opposite of what he told me). Also, in his email he said that it's locked in at 4.5% until tomorrow (24 hours) and I need to make a decision or else the deal is off... sounds like cars salesman tactics, but I was confused about the 4.5% since my initial agreement stated 4.75%.

I emailed him back asking if the new contract reflected the 4.5% interest and whatever the new APR was and he replied back 'what should it be set at?' I'm not sure he realized he stated a rate lower than I was getting. So long story even longer, I got him to get it in writing the 4.5% interest/5.1% APR.

The whole thing kind of smelled fishy to me, but if I somehow get out ahead then I'm wondering if I should go forward even if they went about it bad.

Thoughts?

Absolutely go forward with it, you just got yourself a 30-year good deal. Also, despite the fee increases (which are modest, really), you will save WAY more than that over the course of the loan anyway.

 

[Gibson486]

So I just started comparing my two agreements and in the new one with my 'supposed' better rate @ 4.5, they charged me $202 to discount the percentage and also my lender credit has been reduced from $3,900 to $3,000. My estimated cash needed at closing went from $656 to $1,741!!!

Did they think I would just sign it blindly??? This just reeks of corruptness. The guy never said anything about increasing fees or anything. I even called the lender who I initially spoke with (prior to comparing the docs) and he wanted me to start signing stuff and I told him I was on the edge a little and felt like it was some sort of hustle and he said "how can it be a hustle when we're giving you an even better rate than before?" I think my days with them are over.

Like I said....they are not the lender, they only represent lenders. they, themselves, cannot lock in a rate and they do not do the actual approval.

 

[cpals]

Quicken Loans aren't the actual lenders? I wasn't aware of that... I figured they bought it, but then just resold the mortgage later.

Also, from what I hear they could give me the sky in the agreement, I sign it and then it doesn't get approved and they're scott-free with my money. I think I'm going to try and find a local lender.

 

[mshan]

Um, I don't think you will find any reputable lender that will refi you when you are so far underwater.

Home is collateral for loan, so why would any reputable lender lend you $160000 when collateral for loan is only worth $60000? If you default, they might lose $100000.

I would think you couldn't get any refi unless you had at least some equity in home already, or were only minimally underwater and home is actual worth more in non-stressed market.

 

[cpals]

Um, I don't think you will find any reputable lender that will refi you when you are so far underwater.

Home is collateral for loan, so why would any reputable lender lend you $160000 when collateral for loan is only worth $60000? If you default, they might lose $100000.

I would think you couldn't get any refi unless you had at least some equity in home already, or were only minimally underwater and home is actual worth more in non-stressed market.

I'm sorry to say, but you are misinformed. New FHA guidelines allow lenders to refinance the loan without doing an appraisal first. Along with Quicken Loans agreeing to do this, Bank of America also suggested this route. It is specifically designed for people in my situation.

See here: https://www.quickenloans.com/refina...ine-refinance-your-fha-loan-with-no-appraisal

 

[Gibson486]

Quicken Loans aren't the actual lenders? I wasn't aware of that... I figured they bought it, but then just resold the mortgage later.

Also, from what I hear they could give me the sky in the agreement, I sign it and then it doesn't get approved and they're scott-free with my money. I think I'm going to try and find a local lender.

Nope....they are a service provider, not a lender. Though, to the consumer, it may not be different, but in your case, you can see why it is different.

It's like Jim Sokolove....that lawyer that is on TV. He has not practiced law in years. His business is to refer you to other lawyers that want his business.

 

[mshan]

http://www.fha.com/fha_article.cfm?id=27

http://www.amazon.com/Mortgage-Ripof...ecc_rvi_cart_1

I believe rule of thumb is rate reduction must be at least 1 percent;, some even say 2 percent, to make refi worthwhile.

Mortgage rates fluctuate from day to day, and even intra-day, so without formal rate lock (they may charge 1 percent fee that is credited against closing costs if loan actually closes, but you may lose if loan doesn't close, I am not sure), he may or may not be telling truth.

And APR of almost 5.5 percent, when rates are in low 4 percent range for best qualified candidates, reflects increased risk your loan represents. You can't even compare APR apples to apples from one lender to another because law allows a lot of wiggle room in terms of how it is calculated (it is basically a sales gimmick). Unless you have a really high interest rate to start, you should really educate yourself before committing to anything. Simple interest rate is one thing, they could be charging you obscene closing costs and junk fees that more accurately reflect actual cost of loan vs simple interest rate he may be quoting you.

As I said, if collateral for loan is only worth $60000, and loan amount is $160000 (you are refinancing an already existing FHA loan, so they presumably have access to original loan data and current market conditions and fully aware you are severely underwater), you represent high risk and the lender has to get higher rate of return for risk taken to make lending money to you make sense. There is no free lunch, and if it's too good to be true...

 

[mshan]

http://askcarolynwarren.com/page11/page11.html

 

[JS80]

why the fuck would you refi when you are 63% underwater?

 

[Eli]

why the fuck would you refi when you are 63% underwater?

To help ease the pain?

 

[cpals]

http://www.fha.com/fha_article.cfm?id=27

http://www.amazon.com/Mortgage-Ripof...ecc_rvi_cart_1

I believe rule of thumb is rate reduction must be at least 1 percent;, some even say 2 percent, to make refi worthwhile.

Mortgage rates fluctuate from day to day, and even intra-day, so without formal rate lock (they may charge 1 percent fee that is credited against closing costs if loan actually closes, but you may lose if loan doesn't close, I am not sure), he may or may not be telling truth.

And APR of almost 5.5 percent, when rates are in low 4 percent range for best qualified candidates, reflects increased risk your loan represents. You can't even compare APR apples to apples from one lender to another because law allows a lot of wiggle room in terms of how it is calculated (it is basically a sales gimmick). Unless you have a really high interest rate to start, you should really educate yourself before committing to anything. Simple interest rate is one thing, they could be charging you obscene closing costs and junk fees that more accurately reflect actual cost of loan vs simple interest rate he may be quoting you.

As I said, if collateral for loan is only worth $60000, and loan amount is $160000 (you are refinancing an already existing FHA loan, so they presumably have access to original loan data and current market conditions and fully aware you are severely underwater), you represent high risk and the lender has to get higher rate of return for risk taken to make lending money to you make sense. There is no free lunch, and if it's too good to be true...

mshan,

I understand what you are saying and have done my research to make sure it would be worth my time doing it. From the lenders I have spoken with, unless they can reduce the rate by one percent then they will not refi my mortgage. I am currently in a 30-year fixed @ 6.5% so I'm pretty sure I'm well within that range.

I was just stating the fact that there are lenders that will deal with you if you are underwater and in a FHA loan (as long as you meet some minimal requirements). There is some added risk to them, but that is why I'm getting quoted 4.75% and 5.5% rates from other lenders and not the going 4% or whatever it is. Just because you're underwater doesn't mean you don't have any options.

By refinancing my mortgage I would be able to drop my payment by $177/month and break even around the 20 month range. I'm planning on staying in my house for 3-5 years more so it would be a good financial decision to refinance.

 

[Adrenaline]

I was trying to refinance (FHA streamline) with QL and they were taking a long time and when it came down to starting an escrow and needing the fees paid the numbers they wanted were different than quoted by $1700. I decided to look elsewhere and tried a new site.

I went to Amerisave and have a quote for 4.25 percent and have read over most of the loan documents. I am waiting to get a final GFE before I send them any money.

QL is like Amerisave and many others, they refinance your loan and then are going to sell it off to someone else. Look over your GFE and other papers and read them thoroughly.

 

[cpals]

why the fuck would you refi when you are 63% underwater?

Why wouldn't I? If I can knock off close to $200/month by getting a lower interest rate and break even in 1 1/2 years, I'll be doing good if I keep the house for more than two years.

 

[cpals]

I was trying to refinance (FHA streamline) with QL and they were taking a long time and when it came down to starting an escrow and needing the fees paid the numbers they wanted were different than quoted by $1700. I decided to look elsewhere and tried a new site.

I went to Amerisave and have a quote for 4.25 percent and have read over most of the loan documents. I am waiting to get a final GFE before I send them any money.

QL is like Amerisave and many others, they refinance your loan and then are going to sell it off to someone else. Look over your GFE and other papers and read them thoroughly.

If you wouldn't mind - let me know how it goes and who you end up going with. I'm in the same boat as you right now!

 

[Gibson486]

I was trying to refinance (FHA streamline) with QL and they were taking a long time and when it came down to starting an escrow and needing the fees paid the numbers they wanted were different than quoted by $1700. I decided to look elsewhere and tried a new site.

I went to Amerisave and have a quote for 4.25 percent and have read over most of the loan documents. I am waiting to get a final GFE before I send them any money.

QL is like Amerisave and many others, they refinance your loan and then are going to sell it off to someone else. Look over your GFE and other papers and read them thoroughly.

Amerisave may be an actual lender.....but Quicken Loans is not. Quiken Loans is the middle man between the lender and the buyer.

 

[Adrenaline]

Amerisave may be an actual lender.....but Quicken Loans is not. Quiken Loans is the middle man between the lender and the buyer.

I read over the 34 pages that were sent to me and they stated that the loan would be sold off. I guess that is why their fees are a lot cheaper than QL were. So far everything seems fine.

 

[Adrenaline]

If you wouldn't mind - let me know how it goes and who you end up going with. I'm in the same boat as you right now!

I will let you know. Fill out their forms on their page to see where you land. Amerisave charged me $35 upfront for the credit report and I had to fax some paperwork from a Kinko's. I have spent about $70 so far and the guy I am dealing with has been great.

Another thing you can do is use google to find a price comparison. When you see three or four banks offering the same thing, look up reviews online for them.

 

[cpals]

I've gone to two lenders so far (BoA and Quicken Loans) and they've pulled my credit each time. How much is this effecting my credit score each time they're doing it and at what point should I stop shopping around and having people pull my credit?

Can I give them a report a different lender pulled?

 

[Gibson486]

I've gone to two lenders so far (BoA and Quicken Loans) and they've pulled my credit each time. How much is this effecting my credit score each time they're doing it and at what point should I stop shopping around and having people pull my credit?

Can I give them a report a different lender pulled?

it wont effect it.

 

[Adrenaline]

I've gone to two lenders so far (BoA and Quicken Loans) and they've pulled my credit each time. How much is this effecting my credit score each time they're doing it and at what point should I stop shopping around and having people pull my credit?

Can I give them a report a different lender pulled?

From what I have seen each lender pulling your credit counts at most as a 1 point hit. Or they could be nice and not worry about penalizing you, but going to more than 2 should not hurt your score in any way overall.

 

[Gibson486]

From what I have seen each lender pulling your credit counts at most as a 1 point hit. Or they could be nice and not worry about penalizing you, but going to more than 2 should not hurt your score in any way overall.

Multiples queries within a 30 or 45 day period (not sure what the number is) counts as 1 query.

 

[QuickenLoans]

Hi everyone - I'm Kelly with Quicken Loans and I wanted to try and clear a couple things up.

We are a direct lender. We are not a middle man, broker or anything like that. We lend our own money, do our own underwriting and give our own approvals. There is always a chance that (after closing) your loan will be transferred to another servicer. Even if that happens, we can still help with anything or any questions you might have.

In regards to how our deposit works - we are very transparent about it. We have a full explanation on our website: https://www.quickenloans.com/about/quicken-loans-deposit and a video explaining it on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNumQBaCWMM

Adam - I'm not familiar with your particular loan, so I can't elaborate on what's going on with your rates/costs right now. If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to look into it for you. I'm sorry your experience hasn't been great so far....we'd still love the opportunity to earn your business. I can even make sure you work with a different banker. Please get in touch with me directly: Kelly@QuickenLoans.com

Thanks everyone. Any questions for me, please let me know.