Anybody knowledgeable in 3-phase circuit wiring?

[Stojakapimp]

So here's my dilemma. I have 3 appliances that I would like to run: a 3-phase 230/460 volt motor, a single-phase 220 volt chiller, and a single phase 110 volt air compressor. These appliances will all be close together, so I was imagining putting a breaker box nearby and then plugging all of them in the breaker box. So here's what I'm thinking I can do: Bring in 220 volt 3-phase into the breaker box. Split it up so that one breaker is 220 3-phase, another is 220 single phase, and another is 110 single phase.

So I guess here is my question. If I'm bringing in 220 3-phase to the breaker box, does that mean each hot wire is 220 volt or 110 volt? If each line is 220 volt, then for the 220 volt single phase breaker all I need is two of the hot wires and the neutral, correct? And then for the 110 single phase, would I need a voltage divider to bring those wires down? Or is my thinking incorrect here and each line on the incoming 220 3-phase is only 110 volts?

Is this clear at all...cause it sure sounds confusing as hell to me

 

[amdskip]

I'm pretty sure each hot is just 110, so each wire = 110 but I'm no electrician.

 

[CalvinHobbs]

what is your mains voltage for single and three phase in the US?

 

[Stojakapimp]

Originally posted by: calvinHobbs
what is your mains voltage for single and three phase in the US?

I'm not really sure if there is one regular voltage. I would single phase is usually 110, but it can also be 220, 330, 440, etc. And 3-phase is similar to that

 

[JRich]

Each hot I believe is 110VAC. You would need 3 hots, 1 neutral, and a ground.

 

[Stojakapimp]

So I guess here is my main question. The circuit breaker that we are bringing the 3-phase in from says 220/108 3-phase on the panel. Does that mean that each hot wire has a voltage os 108 and then the voltage difference across any of the hot wires is about 220 volts?

 

[Stojakapimp]

Originally posted by: JRich
Each hot I believe is 110VAC. You would need 3 hots, 1 neutral, and a ground.

Ok...so if that's the case, then to make my 220 volt single phase circuit, do I just take two of the hot wires and the ground, or would that give me a 110 single phase circuit?

 

[CalvinHobbs]

Originally posted by: JRich
Each hot I believe is 110VAC. You would need 3 hots, 1 neutral, and a ground.

not necessarily, a triangle wiring has no neutral, a delta wiring will have a neutral, iirc then it's 110V between live and neutral for single phase and 220V between lives in three phase, your air compressor will be ok as it operates on 110V but the other two appliances will require stepping up the voltage, the EE here may confirm it

 

[Stojakapimp]

Originally posted by: calvinHobbs

Originally posted by: JRich
Each hot I believe is 110VAC. You would need 3 hots, 1 neutral, and a ground.

not necessarily, a triangle wiring has no neutral, a delta wiring will have a neutral, iirc then it's 110V between live and neutral for single phase and 220V between lives in three phase, your air compressor will be ok as it operates on 110V but the other two appliances will require stepping up the voltage, the EE here may confirm it

Actually the chiller can also operate at 115, so I think I'll be ok

 

[CalvinHobbs]

you mean it has a voltage selector? your chiller? if it has then put it on 110V or 115V whichever it has, and what about the other one? and by the way i didn't know for domestic use you had three phase as well, usually you get it only for industrial purposes

 

[Malfeas]

I don't think it is possible. You will need to contact you power company and have a 3 phase xfmr installed. Yes, you probably have two hotlegs in your house, but they are not 120 degrees apart electrically. They are 180, the xfmr that feeds you house is only a single phase xfmr, the secondary side is a center tapped with opposite windings, which will give you two hotlegs at 180 degree phase difference.

You can get your 220 volt and 110 volt SINGLE PHASE appliances to work, but unless you have a 3 phase transformer installed, you will never be able to run the 3 phase motor.

 

[CalvinHobbs]

xfmr????

 

[Malfeas]

Originally posted by: calvinHobbs
xfmr????

Sorry, I am a power dispatcher for a power company, and this is the short hand we use to log information.

xfmr = transformer

 

[Stojakapimp]

fyi, this isn't for my house

 

[SaturnX]

Originally posted by: calvinHobbs

Originally posted by: JRich
Each hot I believe is 110VAC. You would need 3 hots, 1 neutral, and a ground.

not necessarily, a triangle wiring has no neutral, a delta wiring will have a neutral, iirc then it's 110V between live and neutral for single phase and 220V between lives in three phase, your air compressor will be ok as it operates on 110V but the other two appliances will require stepping up the voltage, the EE here may confirm it

Out of curiosity, where would the delta have a neutral? I assume by delta you actually meant, "wye", and by triangle you meant "delta"

Thus depending on the configuration you'll have the phase and line voltages the same (delta) or they'll have a sqrt(3) relationship (wye)

--Mark



EDIT: If you've got 220 3-phase, wouldn't each line be bringing in ~127V ? 220 3-Phase doesn't make any sense (at least not to me) reading the post below, it makes more sense if you've got a 208V 3-Phase system.

EDIT: Ok, looking over this again, I'm about 95% sure I'm correct, if you supposedly have a 220-3Phase system, each line will be 127V (there's a root-3 relationship between the line-to-line and the independant phase voltage) Thus the standard 3-phase system is generally 208V, thus 120V in each phase.

 

[Malfeas]

Then what type of power do you have available? 208 3-phase? 240 3-phase? 220 single phase? 480 3-phase?

 

[CalvinHobbs]

ok well for the place where you intend to put it do you three phase there, thinking here i'm being stupid, if you wanna connect means you must be having three phase in that building and you must be having some electrical knowledge if you intend to connect it yourself, well as i said earlier you chiller and compressor gonna work but that motor won't work unless you step up the voltage, iirc the 230 is meant if you connecting it in star and the 460 is meant for triangle wiring so it's not gonna work to its full potential on your electrical network, do you mind if i ask you where that motor was being used earlier?

 

[CalvinHobbs]

Originally posted by: SaturnX

Originally posted by: calvinHobbs

Originally posted by: JRich
Each hot I believe is 110VAC. You would need 3 hots, 1 neutral, and a ground.

not necessarily, a triangle wiring has no neutral, a delta wiring will have a neutral, iirc then it's 110V between live and neutral for single phase and 220V between lives in three phase, your air compressor will be ok as it operates on 110V but the other two appliances will require stepping up the voltage, the EE here may confirm it

Out of curiosity, where would the delta have a neutral? I assume by delta you actually meant, "wye", and by triangle you meant "delta"

Thus depending on the configuration you'll have the phase and line voltages the same (delta) or they'll have a sqrt(3) relationship (wye)

--Mark



EDIT: If you've got 220 3-phase, wouldn't each line be bringing in ~127V ? 220 3-Phase doesn't make any sense (at least not to me) reading the post below, it makes more sense if you've got a 208V 3-Phase system.

sorry i should have said that star will have a neutral and delta won't have, sorry mixed star delta/triangle, i did it in french where we used the term "etoile/triangle" and in english you people relates to it as delta and not triangle

 

[Stojakapimp]

The motor has not been used before. So here's all I know. There is a circuit breaker that on the panel says 220/108 volts 3-phase. Therefore, I'm assuming that each hot wire is 108 volts when compared to neutral, but 220 volts when compares to other hot wires. If I take two of these wires and the ground or neutral, would that give me a 220 volt single phase circuit?

 

[CalvinHobbs]

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp
The motor has not been used before. So here's all I know. There is a circuit breaker that on the panel says 220/108 volts 3-phase. Therefore, I'm assuming that each hot wire is 108 volts when compared to neutral, but 220 volts when compares to other hot wires. If I take two of these wires and the ground or neutral, would that give me a 220 volt single phase circuit?

if you take two hot wires then yes you will get 220V but then where do yo intend to connect the neutral?

 

[Fiat1]

I think you you have a 120/208 3PHASE 4 WIRE y system. You can not get 220 volts out of it
A TO N = 120V
B TO N= 120V
C TO N= 120V
A TO B =208V
A TO C=208V
B TO C=208V

A-B-C=208V 3PHASE

 

[SaturnX]

I still don't understand how the 220/108 3-Phase breaker works, because that isn't exactly a commonly used value of 3-Phase (I've never seen it).. I mean 208/120 makes sense, but not 220/108.

Also you CANNOT take two hot wires and a ground and expect to get 220 volts out of them. Voltage can ONLY be added in SERIES, not in PARALLEL.

--Mark

 

[CalvinHobbs]

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp
The motor has not been used before. So here's all I know. There is a circuit breaker that on the panel says 220/108 volts 3-phase. Therefore, I'm assuming that each hot wire is 108 volts when compared to neutral, but 220 volts when compares to other hot wires. If I take two of these wires and the ground or neutral, would that give me a 220 volt single phase circuit?

 

[Stojakapimp]

Originally posted by: calvinHobbs

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp
The motor has not been used before. So here's all I know. There is a circuit breaker that on the panel says 220/108 volts 3-phase. Therefore, I'm assuming that each hot wire is 108 volts when compared to neutral, but 220 volts when compares to other hot wires. If I take two of these wires and the ground or neutral, would that give me a 220 volt single phase circuit?

if you take two hot wires then yes you will get 220V but then where do yo intend to connect the neutral?

Ugh, I'm so confused by this. Ok, so most power outlets in the US are 110v single phase, correct? Does that mean that the voltage between each hot wire and the ground is 110 volts, and then the voltage between the two hot wires is 220 volts? So then what is a 220 single phase circuit? Is that when the voltage between each hot wire and the ground is 220 and the voltage between the hot wires is 440?

 

[Stojakapimp]

Originally posted by: SaturnX
I still don't understand how the 220/108 3-Phase breaker works, because that isn't exactly a commonly used value of 3-Phase (I've never seen it).. I mean 208/120 makes sense, but not 220/108.

Also you CANNOT take two hot wires and a ground and expect to get 220 volts out of them. Voltage can ONLY be added in SERIES, not in PARALLEL.

--Mark

Well I just know that if you have 3-phase power and want single phase, then you take two of the hot wires and the ground. I wasn't sure what voltage this would give you though.