- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
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Anybody here smart? Know their history?
- Thread starter shortylickens
- Start date
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algiers
Search the page for "France"
What, is it 1985 again and no one can use a computer?
Search the page for "France"
What, is it 1985 again and no one can use a computer?
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
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If all you know is how to check wikipedia then you dont know anything. I wish it was 1985, people could think for themselves and have intelligent discussions.
Are you even old enough to remember those days? Or did you grow up with machines replacing your brain?
- Nov 30, 2005
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KMFJD
Lifer
- Aug 11, 2005
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Your question is quite vague, what do you want to know about Algiers, it's the capital of Algieria, was one of the first foreign places to be attack by the US
/off the top of my head
/no wiki
SKORPI0
Lifer
- Jan 18, 2000
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- Oct 9, 1999
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I don't need wikipedia. Right off the bat, the country is Algeria, Algiers is its capitol. Algeria was a French colony, to which a large number of French had migrated and lived.
So, when, in the late fifties independence movements flared up all over in Africa and the Middle East in all the European colonies, so it did in Algeria.
Just as in French Indochina (Vietnam) years before, the French fought back hard, but they were doomed in the face of the historical inevitability of any peoples wish to rule themselves.
But more French people were "integrated" into Algeria than were in Vietnam, and these people considered Algeria to be the "nth" (forget the actual number) Arrondissement of France (roughly equal to being the "51st US state.") They called themselves the pied-noirs.
France itself in the fifties was often politically unstable, going through more than one "Republic." de Gaulle was in and out of power -- more out than in. When he came back in, once again, to "save" the French nation, in the late fifties, he saw that Algeria needed to have its own independence.
But there was FIERCE opposition to this both in France and from the French Algerians, who, in the famous words of Monty Python, wanted to "keep China British!"
Only de Gaulle had the stature to do this, much like only Nixon could have recognized Communist China here. Nevertheless, more years and a lot of deaths had to pass until, I think, 1962, when Algeria finally did get its independence.
In those years, right wing Generals and others in France tried to assassinate de Gaulle numerous times. That man had balls of steel. The reason France, to this day, has redundant intelligence services is that, when de Gaulle came back in 1958, he couldn't trust his own intelligence service, and couldn't easily abolish the existing ones, so he started up his own, formal, parallel one.
Good times!
Btw, in the last decade, Algeria has had a situation similar to Egypt, in which the Western, progressive-leaning military has basically ruled what is supposed to a democracy, fighting an often extremely bloody war against Muslim militants, and abrogating elections in which the Muslims have won.
People can now go google and nitpick what I've written here, but this is the basic outline of modern day Algeria and France.
So, when, in the late fifties independence movements flared up all over in Africa and the Middle East in all the European colonies, so it did in Algeria.
Just as in French Indochina (Vietnam) years before, the French fought back hard, but they were doomed in the face of the historical inevitability of any peoples wish to rule themselves.
But more French people were "integrated" into Algeria than were in Vietnam, and these people considered Algeria to be the "nth" (forget the actual number) Arrondissement of France (roughly equal to being the "51st US state.") They called themselves the pied-noirs.
France itself in the fifties was often politically unstable, going through more than one "Republic." de Gaulle was in and out of power -- more out than in. When he came back in, once again, to "save" the French nation, in the late fifties, he saw that Algeria needed to have its own independence.
But there was FIERCE opposition to this both in France and from the French Algerians, who, in the famous words of Monty Python, wanted to "keep China British!"
Only de Gaulle had the stature to do this, much like only Nixon could have recognized Communist China here. Nevertheless, more years and a lot of deaths had to pass until, I think, 1962, when Algeria finally did get its independence.
In those years, right wing Generals and others in France tried to assassinate de Gaulle numerous times. That man had balls of steel. The reason France, to this day, has redundant intelligence services is that, when de Gaulle came back in 1958, he couldn't trust his own intelligence service, and couldn't easily abolish the existing ones, so he started up his own, formal, parallel one.
Good times!
Btw, in the last decade, Algeria has had a situation similar to Egypt, in which the Western, progressive-leaning military has basically ruled what is supposed to a democracy, fighting an often extremely bloody war against Muslim militants, and abrogating elections in which the Muslims have won.
People can now go google and nitpick what I've written here, but this is the basic outline of modern day Algeria and France.
- Oct 9, 1999
- 46,879
- 10,690
- 147
Last edited:
- Oct 9, 1999
- 46,879
- 10,690
- 147
C'mon Len, I know that in part you have to be playing possum, as you surely know well the classic film Battle of Algiers.
- Nov 30, 2005
- 50,231
- 118
- 116
C'mon Len, I know that in part you have to be playing possum, as you surely know well the classic film Battle of Algiers.
Busted. I own it on Blu-ray!
KT
Chances are I'm older than you and actually remember 1985, I'm guessing if you were alive you were under ten years old based on your response and general entitlement attitude.
I don't need it either, but the OP obviously wasn't serious about learning the history or he would have done the research on his own and since he wasn't serious, a quick blurb from Wikipedia should suffice.
If he were serious he would have opened a book or done an actual Internet search rather than posting a 10 second question on an OT forum and then berating people's responses, time which could have been used researching.
D:
Fritzo
Lifer
- Jan 3, 2001
- 41,920
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Kadarin
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2001
- 44,296
- 16
- 81
Thing is, back in '85 everyone knew everything automagically so resources like the internet and Wikipedia didn't need to exist, right? Bullshit. If I needed to know something like the question in the OP, I'd go to an encyclopedia.
Same shit, it's just faster now.
preslove
Lifer
- Sep 10, 2003
- 16,754
- 64
- 91
C'mon Len, I know that in part you have to be playing possum, as you surely know well the classic film Battle of Algiers.
Good movie.
arch113
Senior member
- Mar 3, 2005
- 227
- 31
- 91
- Oct 9, 1999
- 46,879
- 10,690
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- Oct 9, 1999
- 46,879
- 10,690
- 147
Yeah, well, there's all that, this is true. Not sure what shorty's underlying intent might have been. It also doesn't matter to me. <shrug>
Most fascinating for me here is the life story of the often stubborn, often infuriating to the British and Americans, yet visionary and amazingly steadfast General Charles de Gaulle. Never was one man more indispensable to the basic political survival of his country than de Gaulle was to France during those years around the end game of Algeria, not to mention during WWII.
Love him or hate him or (mostly here), don't know dick about him, de Gaulle had the unshakable courage of his convictions, for which he repeatedly put his career and his life on the line.
Right wingers in the military, and civilians both in France itself and in Algeria tried to assassinate him numerous times between 1958 and 1962,
His entire life story is amazing. He was gassed and bayoneted and left for dead at Verdun in WWI. Captured by the Germans, he tried to escape five different times, for which he was repeatedly put into solitary confinement.
He was a visionary proponent of mobile tank warfare, and wrote a book about it in the 20's and 30's. Nobody in France listened.
During the Nazi invasion of France, he took an ad hoc tanker group and inflicted one of the very few defeats, however temporary, that the Germans suffered.
Rejecting the Vichy collaborators, he narrowly escaped to England and led the Free French through WWII. His men adored him and fought like lions for him, and for France.
He lived his entire life in the service of the Republic, of that grand and noble idea of a secular, egalitarian and culturally enlightened polity, and he did so majestically and with, I must say, élan.
BurnItDwn
Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 26,353
- 1,862
- 126
I don't know much
but I have watched the Battle of Algiers, and I've read a little bit on the revolution in the 50s, and a bit about Algiers during WW2.
The movie "The Battle of Algiers" is really really really good. It essentially covers some of the major events of the revolution. Every shot in the film is essentially perfect. It's pretty much considered to be one of the very best movies of all time by most critics and many filmmakers.
My take on things is essentially ...
Initially there was rebel forces trying to organize vs the French or the Pro French. There would be arrests, and things were happening in quiet and in secret. The underground resistance took more and more to the forms of protests. And the response from the French was essentially to massacre the protestors.
The Liberation front promised to avenge the people. (and they were able to stop a bloodbath, at least for a while.)
Peace talks continued for only a few short weeks. The French stopped negotiations. The Liberation front went on a terror attack binge striking whatever targets they could in France and things just kept going downhill.
3 women in the liberation army bombed civilian targets in Algiers.
And then pretty much all out war broke out.
Both sides fought very dirty and both sides losses were horrible.
The Algerians essentially never fielded an army larger than 40,000 soldiers, yet they were able in time, to repel the french.
The cost of this war has been said to be over 1 million lives.
This war was a series of atrocity after atrocity after atrocity.
Now, my little knowledge of pre Algerian Revolution is that Algeria has a history of being pushed around
1510 ... Spain essentially in control
1516 ... Ottomans captured (against Spanish)
1520 ... Sultan dies ... Ottomans lose control (Berbers and Spanish take over)
1529 ... Ottomans captured again (against Berbers + Spanish)
Ottomans kept control for like 300 years ....
1541 ... Holy Roman Empire failed their expedition to conquer Algiers (bad weather played a big part in this)
1775 ... Spanish try to invade ... are repelled
There are some other attacks/bombardments from the sea between 1775 and 1830. Mostly punitive measures from Europe.
1830 ... French Invasion and conquest, end of the Ottoman rule.
1940 ... Fall of France. Germany controls puppet Vichy France government
1942 ... Operation Torch, UK and USA 'liberate' Algiers.
Anyhow ... I think these guys have been pushed around even more than Poland (Poland has a very very rough history due to being right in the middle of Germany and Russia)
but I have watched the Battle of Algiers, and I've read a little bit on the revolution in the 50s, and a bit about Algiers during WW2.
The movie "The Battle of Algiers" is really really really good. It essentially covers some of the major events of the revolution. Every shot in the film is essentially perfect. It's pretty much considered to be one of the very best movies of all time by most critics and many filmmakers.
My take on things is essentially ...
Initially there was rebel forces trying to organize vs the French or the Pro French. There would be arrests, and things were happening in quiet and in secret. The underground resistance took more and more to the forms of protests. And the response from the French was essentially to massacre the protestors.
The Liberation front promised to avenge the people. (and they were able to stop a bloodbath, at least for a while.)
Peace talks continued for only a few short weeks. The French stopped negotiations. The Liberation front went on a terror attack binge striking whatever targets they could in France and things just kept going downhill.
3 women in the liberation army bombed civilian targets in Algiers.
And then pretty much all out war broke out.
Both sides fought very dirty and both sides losses were horrible.
The Algerians essentially never fielded an army larger than 40,000 soldiers, yet they were able in time, to repel the french.
The cost of this war has been said to be over 1 million lives.
This war was a series of atrocity after atrocity after atrocity.
Now, my little knowledge of pre Algerian Revolution is that Algeria has a history of being pushed around
1510 ... Spain essentially in control
1516 ... Ottomans captured (against Spanish)
1520 ... Sultan dies ... Ottomans lose control (Berbers and Spanish take over)
1529 ... Ottomans captured again (against Berbers + Spanish)
Ottomans kept control for like 300 years ....
1541 ... Holy Roman Empire failed their expedition to conquer Algiers (bad weather played a big part in this)
1775 ... Spanish try to invade ... are repelled
There are some other attacks/bombardments from the sea between 1775 and 1830. Mostly punitive measures from Europe.
1830 ... French Invasion and conquest, end of the Ottoman rule.
1940 ... Fall of France. Germany controls puppet Vichy France government
1942 ... Operation Torch, UK and USA 'liberate' Algiers.
Anyhow ... I think these guys have been pushed around even more than Poland (Poland has a very very rough history due to being right in the middle of Germany and Russia)
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
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