• We should now be fully online following an overnight outage. Apologies for any inconvenience, we do not expect there to be any further issues.

Anybody here have any experience with online courses? How would you react to this?

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136
I have been taking online classes from PCC for years now. When I started they were using a local dial-up BBS type service, now they are internet delivered. The beauty of online courses is that you don't have to go to class - You learn the material, take your quizzes & tests, & you get your grade. I have never been one to require large amounts of instruction, so these work very well for me. I check the site a couple times a week, get the assignments, & then come back when it's quiz/test time.

This term I'm taking an economics course from a teacher I had previously (microeconomics previously, now macro). So far I'm doing well, all of 1 week into the class. 100% on everything thus far, following my usual methodology. However, he just posted this:

Hi folks,

You will remember from your orientation that I expect
you to access the site at least once a day during the
week (Monday through Friday inclusive). Most of you are
taking this requirement seriously and I appreciate it; a
few others are not. As from Monday, I will begin to
deny access to those who do not fulfill this commitment.
I thought I'd better tell you my intentions; I don't
want anyone to have an unpleasant surprise.

*** ****


His syllabus "requirement" is worded as:

Discipline and organization. Web based courses allow you to determine when you work, but work you must. Depending on your ability, you need to allocate between 6 and 9 hours a week to the course. To fit this into your schedule requires discipline and organization.

Clear and frequent communication. You have the right to expect clear instructions from me and a prompt response to any communication. I check for messages frequently during weekdays, but rarely or not at all at weekends; I think you'll find that I respond promptly to messages. I expect you check the site once a day -- it only takes a few minutes -- and to contact me if you have difficulties.

Hard work. A web based course is not an easy option. You are forced to wrestle with the material on your own, and when you ask questions via email the process can be very time consuming. Web based course require hard work and dedication from all of us.
Being faithful to these suggestions won't guarantee an A, but should ensure that you get as much out of this course as you are capable; this is my understanding of "success".


To me this defeats the purpose of online courses. No longer are you allowed to work at your own pace & do what works for you, he's requiring that everyone visit every day. He does not require participation or discussion, so I really have no clue what the purpose of visiting is.

Is there any way I can publicly address my thoughts on this (in the equivalent of a forum) without coming across like a whiny little bitch? I take courses like this because it fits my schedule, & I work well under the requirements that every other online class has required - Including this teacher previously. Heck, the course catalog description of the online courses specifically say no fixed schedule.

If it really comes down to it I can schedule an event on my system to browse around for me once a day at a somewhat random time, but I'd rather present myself reasonably & have him drop the requirement. This is college, not gradeschool.

Should I keep my mouth shut, or should I say something?

Viper GTS
 

Cyberian

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2000
9,999
1
0
I'd suck it up, play the game and save my annoyance for something more important, although I completely understand your position.

Not knowing this teacher personally, it's hard for you to know how he would take your "complaint".
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
what does a visit to the site consist of? just loading a page? or do you have to go to some chat room? if it's just loading a page... why don't you just load the page? it takes like seconds...

or maybe you can switch sections? it's the beginning of the quarter...
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136


<< what does a visit to the site consist of? just loading a page? or do you have to go to some chat room? if it's just loading a page... why don't you just load the page? it takes like seconds...

or maybe you can switch sections? it's the beginning of the quarter...
>>



I'm not sure what constitutes a visit, but I'm sure it wouldn't be THAT hard to script. Like I said, he doesn't require posts or discussion, so I'm assuming all he's looking at is an activity log. If I get my name there with a time stamp, he has no room to complain. The proxy at work blocks the ports required to do this, otherwise I'd just do it from work.

He is the only online offering of this course, & it fills up FAST (Micro/macro economics fills an elective nicely, plus they're both available as web classes. If you don't get it in the first couple days of registration it will be full.). There is no way I can attend a classroom environment, nor do I want to. Online classes work very well for me.

Viper GTS
 

poopaskoopa

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2000
4,836
1
81
Yeah, that does suck, but I don't see what you can say to the instructor. The question I'd ask(if I were the instructor) would be: "Well, can you not get to the site every day?" And you know the answer. You signed up for an online class, so you must have reliable access to the web. I think it defeats the purpose of not having to take the class by being physically present, but I've found that instructors generally want you to act as if their respective class is the only thing you live for.
 
Apr 5, 2000
13,256
1
0
Viper - sounds just like the Economics course I took last semester. (Think it was macro) Supposedly they're going to "standardize" that course nationwide and yours looks like one of em. All he did in our class was take attendance and lecture. You might want to approach him during his office hours and tell him you're working or what not and you're doing fine with the quizzes and such and that this is not the class you had signed up for. (Because it's not) Push comes to shove you could take it to the dean
 

aphex

Moderator<br>All Things Apple
Moderator
Jul 19, 2001
38,572
2
91


<< Say something. That's stupid. >>

 
Feb 24, 2001
14,513
4
81
I hate web courses :|

Other than that, a daily check is way too much to ask. What our prof does is this. If you check the site, fine. If not, fine. If you go talk to him about a bad grade, he looks you up on the computer (they use WebCT). He can look back and see what pages you visited, and how long on each one. If he can see that you've been visiting the site and spending some time there going over the material, he'll talk with you about your grade and see what he can do. If he sees that you never visit, and are just trying to get by on your own, he won't help. I think this works the best as it doesn't hurt the students who do it on their own, yet benefits the ones who do visit and follow his pages. It should be just that, what you make of it. If you can do all the work on your own you should be allowed to just go take the tests (which should never be online IMO, ours aren't thankfully) without being REQUIRED to visit web pages (unless it's part of the course like for research or getting assignments).

Wow that didn't answer your question at all. I could see maybe bi-weekly, but daily is too much. I'd send a letter over to the dean of bidness.
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136


<< I hate web courses :|

Other than that, a daily check is way too much to ask. What our prof does is this. If you check the site, fine. If not, fine. If you go talk to him about a bad grade, he looks you up on the computer (they use WebCT). He can look back and see what pages you visited, and how long on each one. If he can see that you've been visiting the site and spending some time there going over the material, he'll talk with you about your grade and see what he can do. If he sees that you never visit, and are just trying to get by on your own, he won't help. I think this works the best as it doesn't hurt the students who do it on their own, yet benefits the ones who do visit and follow his pages. It should be just that, what you make of it. If you can do all the work on your own you should be allowed to just go take the tests (which should never be online IMO, ours aren't thankfully) without being REQUIRED to visit web pages (unless it's part of the course like for research or getting assignments).

Wow that didn't answer your question at all. I could see maybe bi-weekly, but daily is too much. I'd send a letter over to the dean of bidness.
>>



We use WebCT too. :) Actually, back when I was working at the college, they were considering several online course systems. I spent a week with WebCT building sample classes & then presented to the IT people what I thought was good/bad, etc. about it.

The way you described it is how, IMHO, it should be run. If I get myself into trouble by not reading/visiting enough I'll deal with the consequences. I won't bother him about it, I'll either fix it on my own or I won't. That's the beauty of the online format.

Viper GTS
 

Spendthrift

Senior member
Oct 22, 2001
500
0
0
i dont have a good solution to your problem.

if it makes you feel better, in 90% of my classes at university the professors figured in attendance as part of the grade. i experienced this at two different private 4 year universities. one of these being Gonzaga.

edit: i forgot to metion that this pissed me off to no end as i figured since i was paying for college it was my right to decide whether i needed to show up or not. so i empathize with you. it sucks.
 

pyonir

Lifer
Dec 18, 2001
40,856
321
126
i work for an online university. our requirement is that you must sign on and post a message 5 days out of a 7 day period. it counts towards participation. but in these classes you have to POST not just log on. you can do it five days in a row, or not. profs have different requirements. get used to it, i'm sure that is where most online universities are going to be going (because accreditation firms are becoming more strick on online universities).
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136


<< i work for an online university. our requirement is that you must sign on and post a message 5 days out of a 7 day period. it counts towards participation. but in these classes you have to POST not just log on. you can do it five days in a row, or not. profs have different requirements. get used to it, i'm sure that is where most online universities are going to be going (because accreditation firms are becoming more strick on online universities). >>



I've taken classes where such things were required (writing, for example). For those types of classes I can understand... But Econ?

Viper GTS
 

pyonir

Lifer
Dec 18, 2001
40,856
321
126


<<

<< i work for an online university. our requirement is that you must sign on and post a message 5 days out of a 7 day period. it counts towards participation. but in these classes you have to POST not just log on. you can do it five days in a row, or not. profs have different requirements. get used to it, i'm sure that is where most online universities are going to be going (because accreditation firms are becoming more strick on online universities). >>



I've taken classes where such things were required (writing, for example). For those types of classes I can understand... But Econ?

Viper GTS
>>


you still have to participate in a Econ course don't you? it really isn't going to matter the course, all courses are slowly going to be like that. accreditation firms are looking at is you are going to class, you have to go 5 times a week but only spend 15 mins max each time. they are looking at total class time as well as the work. see what i am getting at? when was the last year your school was accredited? maybe a review is coming up and they are trying to look good...
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136


<<

<<

<< i work for an online university. our requirement is that you must sign on and post a message 5 days out of a 7 day period. it counts towards participation. but in these classes you have to POST not just log on. you can do it five days in a row, or not. profs have different requirements. get used to it, i'm sure that is where most online universities are going to be going (because accreditation firms are becoming more strick on online universities). >>



I've taken classes where such things were required (writing, for example). For those types of classes I can understand... But Econ?

Viper GTS
>>


you still have to participate in a Econ course don't you? it really isn't going to matter the course, all courses are slowly going to be like that. accreditation firms are looking at is you are going to class, you have to go 5 times a week but only spend 15 mins max each time. they are looking at total class time as well as the work. see what i am getting at? when was the last year your school was accredited? maybe a review is coming up and they are trying to look good...
>>



That's the whole thing, there is no participation required!

If participation were part of the course requirements, such as 2 posts a day M-F, then I'd understand.

I dunno, it just makes no sense to me.

Viper GTS
 

pyonir

Lifer
Dec 18, 2001
40,856
321
126
you quoted in his syllabus that he expects you to check the site once a day right? i'm not trying to challenge you about your prof cause i don't know anything about it...i'm just trying to get you to see where this is probably coming from :)
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136


<< you quoted in his syllabus that he expects you to check the site once a day right? i'm not trying to challenge you about your prof cause i don't know anything about it...i'm just trying to get you to see where this is probably coming from :) >>



By participation I meant like posting, discussion, etc. There is none required. I'll likely never post a single message on there unless I complain about this. :D

So I guess I'll be logging on, clicking a few links, & then leaving.

rolleye.gif


Viper GTS
 

pyonir

Lifer
Dec 18, 2001
40,856
321
126


<<

<< you quoted in his syllabus that he expects you to check the site once a day right? i'm not trying to challenge you about your prof cause i don't know anything about it...i'm just trying to get you to see where this is probably coming from :) >>



By participation I meant like posting, discussion, etc. There is none required. I'll likely never post a single message on there unless I complain about this. :D

So I guess I'll be logging on, clicking a few links, & then leaving.

rolleye.gif


Viper GTS
>>


seems pretty pointless i agree....but hey...if it gets you the A? :D
 

Jfur

Diamond Member
Jul 9, 2001
6,044
0
0
it's silly, but for the record WebCT (if that is what you're using) displays the following student tracking stats:

Full Name
User ID
First Access (date and time)
Last Access (date and time)
Hits
Items Read
Posted


he could also set it up to do page tracking, which shows you how often students visit content module pages and post to discussions.

 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136


<< it's silly, but for the record WebCT (if that is what you're using) displays the following student tracking stats:

Full Name
User ID
First Access (date and time)
Last Access (date and time)
Hits
Items Read
Posted


he could also set it up to do page tracking, which shows you how often students visit content module pages and post to discussions.
>>



So what you're saying is unless he checks it at 23:59 every day he can't tell whether or not I visited a particular day? Or at least downloads the log at 23:59?

How can he even enforce his rule?

Viper GTS