Anybody but Obama

[Rainsford]

Bush was doing his very best to out-Democrat the Democrats. His handouts were the biggest. Medicare Part D, your own home, expansive war efforts. The man knew how to dole out cash.

Calling it "Democrat" seems a bit silly at this point, since there's pretty much NO history of Republicans being the fiscally responsible party. Sure, they're talking a good game now...but they ALWAYS talk a good game when it comes to reducing government spending. Reagan talked about small government more than anyone, and he ran up enormous deficits.

I don't blame either party in particular though, I blame the voters. The average person seems barely able to understand their own finances, much less government budgets. That's why in the midst or a pretty serious budget shortfall, Republicans aren't getting booed off stage talking about tax cuts.

 

[MacLeod1592]

Had a nice long smart ass response written up but I think Im just gonna back on outta here. I just started posting here and dont really want to start off brawling with folks. Ill come back when Ive got some more seniority.

 

[Rainsford]

Had a nice long smart ass response written up but I think Im just gonna back on outta here. I just started posting here and dont really want to start off brawling with folks. Ill come back when Ive got some more seniority.

As you may have noticed, smart-ass is the order of the day around here quite often We like to keep the conversation reasonably civilized, but seniority is less important than the ideas you're expressing. Of course persuasive is always more useful than wise-ass, but if you're got an idea you think is worth sharing with the people who post here, don't let some idea of seniority stand in your way.

...says the guy who's been posting here for almost 11 years

 

[MacLeod1592]

As you may have noticed, smart-ass is the order of the day around here quite often We like to keep the conversation reasonably civilized, but seniority is less important than the ideas you're expressing. Of course persuasive is always more useful than wise-ass, but if you're got an idea you think is worth sharing with the people who post here, don't let some idea of seniority stand in your way.

...says the guy who's been posting here for almost 11 years

I hear ya brother and I aint skeered of a good scrap. Ive had some knock down drag outs on a few car audio forums to the point where Im known around the competition circuit not for being a tough competitor but for being a loudmouth on the forums, of which I aint too proud of.

Im sure Ill go a few rounds now and then but I kinda just wanna hang out, learn some shit and have some fun. Ive been married 10 years so I can fight and argue anytime I want.

 

[Munky]

It doesn't matter who you vote for, the consequences of recklessly spending the money we didn't have for the last 30 years are inevitable. Might as well get some popcorn and watch these clowns make promises they have no prayer in hell of keeping.

 

[Paul98]

Stop trying to blame one party or another for this mess we are in. They both have a huge part in it, and had plenty of time to stop it if they knew what was going on.

 

[dank69]

I hear ya brother and I aint skeered of a good scrap. Ive had some knock down drag outs on a few car audio forums to the point where Im known around the competition circuit not for being a tough competitor but for being a loudmouth on the forums, of which I aint too proud of.

Im sure Ill go a few rounds now and then but I kinda just wanna hang out, learn some shit and have some fun. Ive been married 10 years so I can fight and argue anytime I want.

I hope you at least read the links above showing just how much of what you think you know is really not true at all.

 

[werepossum]

No, that was a result of liberal policies when the government told bankers that they had to give people making $30,000 a year a $300,000 loan or face punishment. Gotta help those low income people get houses too.



Nope, and the world is a better place and we're a safer country because of all that.



Barney Frank and Chris Dodd to be exact along with Bill Clinton.



Yeah it was Obama that increased the debt more in 2 years than was accumulated since the founding of the country. And lowering taxes INCREASES revenue to the treasury. Reagan proved it when he cut taxes from nearly 70% down to the 20's. By the end of his term, revenue to the treasury had double.



No he's screaming SPEND SPEND SPEND which is what has gotten us into this mess in the first place. And spare me the class warfare. The top 1% pay 40% of the taxes. 50% of the US population pay zero taxes. The top 50% pay 97% of the taxes. So any tax cut will benefit the wealthier because theyre the ones paying all the taxes. And thats good, cause the private sector does a much better job of spending its money than the government does. The government cant deliver the mail. They couldnt run the Cash for Clunkers temporary program without running it broke 3 times. Leave the money in the private sector where it can do some good.



Guess I do cause this is most definitely Obama's economy.

This is all true, but it's hardly a one-sided show. Without Republican deregulation, this crash, though unavoidable, would have been much less severe and would almost certainly be over. And none of the Republican candidates (with the possible exception of Ron Paul) is likely to make a sea change.

I have no problem with "Anybody But Obama" as long as people don't start believing that this time it will get markedly better. We have deep systemic issues which are beyond any one person's ability to fix, and our collective desire to consume without producing ensures that neither party can fix it even if so minded.

 

[Rainsford]

This is all true, but it's hardly a one-sided show. Without Republican deregulation, this crash, though unavoidable, would have been much less severe and would almost certainly be over. And none of the Republican candidates (with the possible exception of Ron Paul) is likely to make a sea change.

I have no problem with "Anybody But Obama" as long as people don't start believing that this time it will get markedly better. We have deep systemic issues which are beyond any one person's ability to fix, and our collective desire to consume without producing ensures that neither party can fix it even if so minded.

As long as we're looking beyond obvious answers, how about we consider the idea that the primary blame for the economic crash might not (and probably doesn't) rest with the government at all...Democrat or Republican?

I think Americans are so quick to jump on the government bashing bandwagon because they're a good scapegoat that allows us to ignore the obvious fact that often WE are the problem. Was our economic downturn Democratic over-regulation or Republican under-regulation? Or maybe it was greedy and/or incompetent investors and idiot home buyers who didn't understand how mortgages work. Maybe instead of blaming the government for budget deficits, we blame the fact that voters almost universally oppose budget cuts for stuff they like while supporting budget cuts for things other people like while thinking taxes can be cut for everyone independent of how much we spend?

I think the government can definitely improve in a number of areas, but I also think we're far too willing to blame them for everything or think a change in government can solve all our problems. It's an easy lie to believe, since it frees us from having to display any personal accountability as voters and citizens.

 

[Engineer]

As long as we're looking beyond obvious answers, how about we consider the idea that the primary blame for the economic crash might not (and probably doesn't) rest with the government at all...Democrat or Republican?

I tend to agree with this. I personally think it's been decades of shipping better paying and wealth building (i.e. making stuff) jobs out of this country lowering the wages and benefits of those at the bottom or near there. The skyscraper cannot stand without a firm foundation and only those at the very top can afford the big parachutes or helicopters to avoid crashing down.

As Zebo states....cheap is more expensive.

My 2 cents on the subject....

 

[Jhhnn]

This is all true, but it's hardly a one-sided show. Without Republican deregulation, this crash, though unavoidable, would have been much less severe and would almost certainly be over. And none of the Republican candidates (with the possible exception of Ron Paul) is likely to make a sea change.

I have no problem with "Anybody But Obama" as long as people don't start believing that this time it will get markedly better. We have deep systemic issues which are beyond any one person's ability to fix, and our collective desire to consume without producing ensures that neither party can fix it even if so minded.

None of what was offered was true except in a very superficial confirmation bias sort of way. Policy has consequences, and we're living the consequences of Repub policy today. Hell- that policy is still in force, which is why we're not in economic recovery. The Ownership Society credit bubble never would have happened with the New Deal financial constraints that existed pre-Reagan. It's precisely what they were designed to prevent, and did prevent when in effect.

As long as we're looking beyond obvious answers, how about we consider the idea that the primary blame for the economic crash might not (and probably doesn't) rest with the government at all...Democrat or Republican?

I think Americans are so quick to jump on the government bashing bandwagon because they're a good scapegoat that allows us to ignore the obvious fact that often WE are the problem. Was our economic downturn Democratic over-regulation or Republican under-regulation? Or maybe it was greedy and/or incompetent investors and idiot home buyers who didn't understand how mortgages work. Maybe instead of blaming the government for budget deficits, we blame the fact that voters almost universally oppose budget cuts for stuff they like while supporting budget cuts for things other people like while thinking taxes can be cut for everyone independent of how much we spend?

I think the government can definitely improve in a number of areas, but I also think we're far too willing to blame them for everything or think a change in government can solve all our problems. It's an easy lie to believe, since it frees us from having to display any personal accountability as voters and citizens.

Look beyond obvious answers? What's obvious to rational people isn't obvious to well indoctrinated outrage addicted fringe whacks, at all.

This is obvious, and the author entirely vilified by his former compatriots-

http://www.frumforum.com/were-our-enemies-right