Any way to get a Barton to POST ?

[Bat123Man]

Hi,

I have an ABIT KG7-Lite mobo. It has the AMD 761 Northbridge, and VIA 686B Southbridge. I have been running a Thunderbird 1.4 for years, however have just purchased a Barton 2500+ Athlon XP from eBay. My BIOS lists only up to 2100+ Athlon XP as supported, but it does say "2100+ (and higher)". I am assuming that it won't POST because the Barton has 512 KB L2 cache whilst the Thunderbird only had 256 KB, but maybe that is not the reason.

The whole reason for the upgrade is to get SSE instructions. Eventually, I will get a dual-core and do a proper upgrade, but unfortunately that means new mobo + CPU + PCI-E card + RAM. A Barton from eBay seemed like a cheaper solution .

I am thinking that if I had picked up a Palomino (or Thoroughbred) 2200+ it would have worked, as they have the same size L2 cache, but neither is as overclockable as a Barton. When I tried the upgrade, I removed my fan/heatsink combo, lifted the bar of the ZIF socket to get at the T-bird, and then swapped it for the Barton. I made sure Pin 1 was where it was supposed to be, and the CPU dropped into place. Then I replaced the socket bar, and reinstalled the fan/heatsink. I then pulled the jumper to reset the BIOS, and set it back to "Normal" mode. The computer wouldn't even POST. There was no beep at all, just the sounds of the fans. I even hauled out my old CRT to hook up to the analog video port just so I could see if there was anything the screen at all (my LCD panel wouldn't come out of powersave mode at all on the digital connection). Nothing.

I redid the whole operation in case the Barton wasn't seated well (pretty much impossible with a ZIF socket, but you never know), same result. Then I put everything back the way it was, and as you can see from the fact that I am able to post this message, everything is back to normal. My BIOS had to be reset (time, date, multiplier, FSB, RAM voltage), so I know that the BIOS reset worked.

Is there anything I can do to get the Barton working? Before you all say NO, please consider this forum post I found before I bid on the Barton :

http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=515

"Well, after playing with the 2500 in my Asus board yesterday and today, I decided to start trying it in my older mobo's and the KG7-R was the easiest to put it on. Installed the proc, hit the power button and started right away. Went into bios and set the multi to 13, which is read as a 12.5 by this board and set a fsb speed of 150 and saved and rebooted. Booted right up in windows, no problems and it's presently running quite nicely at 1875. After I make sure it's stable I plan to try the EP-8KHA+ next. Attached is a WCPU/Sandra screenie:"

Any ideas?

PS. The KG7-R is the RAID board. The BIOS is identical to my motherboard's, but it also has a Highpoint controller. So if it worked on that board, it should work on mine. I have the latest BIOS version available.

Thanks,
BM

 

[jackschmittusa]

If I recall correctly, it was a change in the memory controller that was needed for the Barton to work in some old boards. The move to 333fsb was what necessatated the change. There were even physical hacks (i.e. removing a resistor) for some boards.

 

[Bat123Man]

Ah, well I am not trying to do anything as glorious as that. I was just trying to run it at 133. I have PC266 RAM (PC2100) so the best I can hope for is 266 FSB. When I tried to fire up the Barton, I was planning on setting the FSB to 133 and the multiplier to 11.5 (which I believe are the default settings). However, it wouldn't even POST. Nothing at all, couldn't get into the BIOS screen to select anything.

BM.

 

[Bat123Man]

Hmm, I found many more forum posts about this problem, although not with my exact hardware. It seems if you pre-set via jumpers the multiplier you want and FSB, you can get it to post. Unfortunately, I don't believe my mobo has the option as everything is controlled via the BIOS. I'll look it up, but in the meantime, any other suggestions?

Thanks,
BM

 

[ch33zw1z]

Get the latest BIOS from Abit and flash it. other than that, you may be sol.

 

[Sensai]

bat, with this board and with any of the bios releases for it, it is not possible. checking back on the revisions, it supports up to a 2100+ pali. the + does not mean and additional faster cpus. since you have a soft bios, once you first put the cpu in, it the board reads the cpu config as default and tries to set its clock that way. board with jumpers forces initial detection at whatever u set so if you set it at lower ~ghz than max support, it will have a better chance of working.

 

[Bat123Man]

Ooh, ok. That sounds reasonable. When I did remove the BIOS reset jumper, it should have worked if it was going to work, is that it? When I next booted with my Thunderbird back in, the BIOS was preset for a 500 MHz CPU. I had to reset it for 1400. So if it was going to work by lowering the max support, I am guessing that it won't work at all since it didn't at 500 ?

I have found a few more postings where users claimed that it worked on their KG7 mobos. But they apparently did nothing other than swap in the CPU and fire it up. At least they got to the BIOS screen. I get no POST at all. Hmmmm.........

Thanks,
BM.

 

[Bat123Man]

Latest BIOS is already on, and as Sensai points out, it was designed to support Palimino chips, not Bartons. I still can't think of a reason it won't work, unless addressing the extra L2 cache is an issue. I would have thought it would simply use the first 256 KB since the BIOS wouldn't know about anything over that.

MB.

 

[Sensai]

the cache really doesnt have much to do with board support rather than writing into the bios to address the barton family. its gotta get from initial read of 166x11 to 133x11. best is to find a hacked bios version or ask manufacturer for support... they may provide you with a custom version.

 

[Bat123Man]

Hacked BIOS, ok, I'll see if I can find one. When you say it has to get from initial read of 166*11 to 133, I assume you mean it is picking up the default FSB of the Barton? If I set my Thunderbird to 166, save it to the BIOS, shut off and install the Barton, will that have any effect?

Thanks,
BM.

 

[Bat123Man]

Hey Sensai,

Perhaps you know the answer to this question. If you read this post here :

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.comp...&q=KG7+Barton&rnum=19#52f2fbc7e56bff82

This individual got the Barton 2500+ working with my exact motherboard. He states :

"the solution was, after reading about multiplier
workarounds and bios driven buffered circuit,
to change the multiplier to 13x or 15x.. "

I can try this, but I am not sure of the procedure. First, my BIOS only goes up to 13X, and then it has an Over 13X option. Secondly, I am not sure how he went about this. Does it mean he set his BIOS to be 15X, saved it, shut down, took the fan/heatsink off his older proc, installed the Barton, and then booted? The reason I am asking is that it is quite difficult to get my heatsink/fan combo easily off of my Thunderbird. I have done it a few times, but I don't want to do it every time just to change BIOS settings. If my machine won't POST (monitor doesn't even come on, therefore I can't get into the BIOS), is my only option to undo everything, set up the T-bird again, change a BIOS setting, and then put it all back again? It seems like I am asking for trouble. Will a mobo POST without a CPU in the socket? Is that how these guys are trying different multipliers?

Thanks,
BM.

 

[Sensai]

ok, they all somehow got the 2500 to post either without doing anything or doing the pin mod to change the multiplier. i remember something about the pin mod and pencil trick a few years ago but didnt look into it since i dont have those issues. research them..also, pc will not post without cpu or ram.

i agree it is a pain to remove and strap on the heatsink for many of them. what i would do is take the board out of the case and lay it flat. hook just the necessary components. unclip the heatsink with the thunderbird under it and try changing the bios like that. should be enough time to do that before cpu really heats up... but if it gets too hot within those few minutes then put something heavy enough on top of it for pressure, knocking down a few degrees (cpu fan should still be on). do your experimenting that way.

edit-- possible chance the barton is already dead? : )

 

[Bat123Man]

Ok, well I am getting much more adept at leveraging the HSF off the CPU and then putting it back on. I tried the following :

Booted into the BIOS screen using the T-bird. Set the following :
FSB at 133
Multiplier at 11x
divider at 4:4:1

vCore at 1.65v
I/O at 3.50 v
DDR VCC at 2.52 v

I found out the Barton needs 1.65v whereas my old T-bird requires 1.75v. The DDR setting is because I have 2.5 v RAM but the default BIOS setting on the KG7 is 2.65. I didn't change the I/O voltage. I also found out the default multiplier is 11x, regardless of whether or not my chip is locked. So if it was gonna work, those were the settings it needed. All except the 166 FSB, but I can't do that anyway since my divider doesn't go to 5:5:1.

Then I saved the BIOS changes, waited for the screen to go completely black and shut off the PC. Put the Barton in, attached the HSF, and started it up. No POST. Nothing, fans come on, no beep, nothing on the screen, no error message.

I pulled the CMOS jumper and set the BIOS back to default, put the T-Bird back in, reset it up with what the T-Bird requires (1.75v, 133 FSB, 10.5x, 2.52v RAM), and am typing on that computer right now.

Looks like I am out of luck. The Barton could be already dead, I really have no way of telling. Even if I brought it into a shop, I think they would have a hard time testing a Socket A CPU since they haven't sold them for some time. The guy I bought it off of on eBay sells a lot of them (search for Barton 2500+, his online store is called Assured Auctions), and he does guarantee that each has been tested prior to shipping. He has nothing but positive reviews, so if it is dead, I am pretty sure he didn't know that it was. I have been having a mail conversation with him, he has no problem offering a refund or an exchange if I want to take him up on it. However, my gut feeling is telling me that the Barton is fine. No bent pins, not obviously fried, no attempts to manually unlock it (cutting of bridges, etc.).

Any other ideas?

Thanks,
BM.

 

[Bat123Man]

Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

 

[Sensai]

yap... swap the board or return for a mobile barton from the guy which is 266 fsb : ) ... im using the same cpu now, so if you want, if you send it.. ill check it. get out of socket 462 nowadays.