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any upgrade path here that doesn't involve replacing everything?

W

wolfestone

Member
I think I can probably guess the answer to this one but I figured I'd ask just in case I've missed something.

I have an i865 chipset motherboard, with a P4 3.2 northwood, and 2.5gb PC3200 400mhz ram. It's AGP with a geforce 7800gs card.

I'm wondering if there is any CPU/mainboard upgrade options that would give enough of a performance boost to be worth it, while letting me reuse the video card and ram.

It's obviously not a fast system today, it's usable for most stuff but recently I've started playing a bit of minecraft and it can't keep up when hosting a multiplayer game.

I don't have the budget right now for a whole new system, so I'm wondering if I can maybe scrape together some used parts on the cheap to last another year or so.

thanks for any suggestions
 
You might be able to find something used on the For Sale/Trade forum, but DDR and AGP boards are basically gone.

My advice:
AMD Llano launches will hit shelves in 2-3 months. That'll get you a quad core cpu with an integrated 6550 level graphics chip (faster than your 7800gs), then you just need to buy some DDR3 memory which is relatively cheap.
You can also find some killer deals on Athlon II based systems right now.
 
Two reasons to build a whole new system:

1. All parts will be from the same time in the development path so you'll be able to choose parts that will be compatible and work well together.

2. A whole, working older machine that is still fast enough for basic tasks is worth more than the sum of its parts. You may be able to sell it at a friendly price for enough to help offset the cost of your new parts.
 
There is no good upgrade path from AGP that doesn't involve replacing everything.

That said, waiting for the Llano to come out is likely your cheapest path. The integrated GPU should be as fast or faster than your 7800gs, and you'll be able to add a discrete card later. So you won't have to buy a separate video card right away. You'll still need CPU + RAM + Motherboard though. RAM right now is pretty cheap not long ago I got some at $10 per GB. Dunno if it's gone up since then, but if you watch the deals, you can get 2-4GB pretty cheap.
 
Thanks for the advice.

Will the Llano use existing motherboards/chipsets or is it a whole new platform?

I'd prefer to avoid stuff that's brand new and potentially has some kinks that still need to be ironed out.

I'm amazed that onboard video has got so powerful now.
 
wolfestone said:
I think I can probably guess the answer to this one but I figured I'd ask just in case I've missed something.

I have an i865 chipset motherboard, with a P4 3.2 northwood, and 2.5gb PC3200 400mhz ram. It's AGP with a geforce 7800gs card.

I'm wondering if there is any CPU/mainboard upgrade options that would give enough of a performance boost to be worth it, while letting me reuse the video card and ram.

It's obviously not a fast system today, it's usable for most stuff but recently I've started playing a bit of minecraft and it can't keep up when hosting a multiplayer game.

I don't have the budget right now for a whole new system, so I'm wondering if I can maybe scrape together some used parts on the cheap to last another year or so.

thanks for any suggestions
Click to expand...

I have a similar issue. Check the CPU compatibility for your motherboard, and hit ebay. I have an old HP computer with a P4 HT 3.0ghz that I use for office tasks, and its dragging ever so slightly. For about 30 bucks you can buy a Pentium D off of ebay, which SHOULD give a reasonable boost.
 
wolfestone said:
Thanks for the advice.

Will the Llano use existing motherboards/chipsets or is it a whole new platform?

I'd prefer to avoid stuff that's brand new and potentially has some kinks that still need to be ironed out.

I'm amazed that onboard video has got so powerful now.
Click to expand...

Llano is a new platform. I bet you any 'kinks' it has are far less than what your current platform has.

If you want a 'tested' platform, Athlon II based barebones systems and motherboard/cpu combos are on special all the time.
 
Fox5 said:
Llano is a new platform. I bet you any 'kinks' it has are far less than what your current platform has.

If you want a 'tested' platform, Athlon II based barebones systems and motherboard/cpu combos are on special all the time.
Click to expand...

Would an athlon II system give me a significant performance boost? I'm also looking at phenom II parts, but it sounds like that might not be a good plan with Llano releasing soon.

By kinks, I simply mean hard-to-track-down stability issues. Is the general consensus that intel/amd are about equal these days as far as stability goes?
 
wolfestone said:
Would an athlon II system give me a significant performance boost? I'm also looking at phenom II parts, but it sounds like that might not be a good plan with Llano releasing soon.

By kinks, I simply mean hard-to-track-down stability issues. Is the general consensus that intel/amd are about equal these days as far as stability goes?
Click to expand...

Put it this way, any new system you buy today, even the real low end, will be MUCH faster than what you have now. And you will kick yourself for not doing it sooner.
 
There are the Via-chipset ASRock boards, like the 4core-dual-VSTA or whatever they were called, that supported S775 C2D chips, and AGP and PCI-E, and DDR and DDR2. They were interesting crossover boards, but weren't without their faults. (2GB RAM max, issues with some modern video cards not working.)

I don't see them for sale at Newegg any more.
 
wolfestone said:
Would an athlon II system give me a significant performance boost? I'm also looking at phenom II parts, but it sounds like that might not be a good plan with Llano releasing soon.

By kinks, I simply mean hard-to-track-down stability issues. Is the general consensus that intel/amd are about equal these days as far as stability goes?
Click to expand...

Llano is basically an Athlon II with a mid range graphics chip integrated into it.
The integrated graphics that comes with the 800 series motherboards for athlon II and phenom II isn't anywhere near as good as llano, but it can probably handle minecraft.

And yeah, I think Intel and AMD are generally considered about equal in stability now. It's not like the Athlon XP (and before) days where crappy 3rd party chipsets hurt AMD.
 
Sometimes you just need to bite the bullet and do a serious upgrade. Do you have a Microcenter near you by chance? I think they had a sweet deal on an i3 CPU + motherboard for $100.00.
 
Harvey said:
2. A whole, working older machine that is still fast enough for basic tasks is worth more than the sum of its parts. You may be able to sell it at a friendly price for enough to help offset the cost of your new parts.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'll disagree 😉

Some time aqo, I had some relatively old machine (Athlon XP 2500+ Barton on ECS K7S5A and similar, 80GB IDe, 2 x 512 DDR 400, DVDRW, Radeon 9600 AGP, case and PSU) The machine listed on craigslist barely got attention (and no, I wasn't asking $400 or so, I was just asking $100 for a working full machine)

As we would say in my native land "not even the flies made a stop". It was kind of logical when at microcenter you could also get a "similar" refurb machine P4 for the same $99, and it even had XP and warranty. I decided to part the machine in pieces, and noticed very quickly that some components *cough* DDR and AGP cards *cough* were selling for healthy prices. Listed the items individually, sum of parts for $150, and the parts literally flew. The mobo and cPU were gone in minutes, the DDR also; and the radeon was gone next day.

Ironically, the person that got the backbone of the system (cpu + mobo, then DDR, then radeon) listed the parts for sale shortly after that, listing that the setup crashed all the time. I contacted him and asked about his PSU. The PSU was a POS. I sold him also the PSU, only component left. He had already got another mobo and cPU, thinking that might solve it, but that one was also crashing on his old psu.... With the right PSU my old system ran lovely, and he had to resell the other mobo and cpu. I even told him that I had the complete machine listed for weeks without takers, and the whole machine cost less than just the parts he got individually 🙁 He was just planning on reusing stuff he had 🙁 In the end, the machine worked, but he paid more and suffered the headaches.

I suggest "divide and conquer" and good luck.
 
wolfestone said:
Would an athlon II system give me a significant performance boost?
Click to expand...

The cheapest $50 Athlon-II dual-core will destroy your Pentium-IV... I mean microwave on high overnight destroy it. An Athlon-II is about a match for a high-end CPU from five years ago, which is still infinitely better than what you have.

Daimon
 
Thanks again guys.

If I were going to go with a pci-e video card at some point in the future, is there any reason to wait for Llano vs. a phenom system? How does Phenom compare to i3? Most of the reviews I've seen compared phenom to i5/7, and the intel chips seemed to beat it.
 
Llano should be similar to an Athlon-II with an integrated 5650, which isn't too shabby. Phenoms and i3s usually aren't compared as their two different animals. i3 is dual-core only, with hyperthreading but no turbo. With little money to spare, get a dual or three-core Athlon-II - you'll be happy.

Daimon
 
You have several great choices:

* Barter the Barton. I just gave my old Barton system and 1999 Dell Monitor to someone with no money, after taking the enermax PSU and putting back in the stock SOYO that came with the case.
They are happy, its ultra quiet after 7-volting all the fans (incl psu) and far better than their nearly dead laptop, even with GeForce MX440.
I got paid in beers and smiles, and less complaining. Less tech-recycle fees too.

* Stash it away. Old parts and old systems do have their uses, but if you already have a backup, give it away! If you don't have a backup, hold on to it, store it disconnected in case of lightning and you'll be able to update your face**** after the tornado.

* Save what you can. I guess your case and PSU may be reusable for some graphics cards depending on the plugs required. For instance I got a 5670 that only takes mobo power. (Supposedly not perfomant on DX11, but it will be transitioned to be a netflix/quiet game box) Check the 6-pin/6+2-pin requirements, or maybe you can use an adapter. P4 had a high draw.
These items might otherwise cost a bit in shipping charges.
Love your fans? I hate paying shipping equal to item cost on things like that.

I am unfamiliar with the demands of Minecraft (DX11? playing at 1080? Settings?) but having a multi-core proc should help with hosting.
Good luck and happy computing.
 
Last edited:
On Intel? Then no. Next time go AMD, I am.

edit- Didn't expect your stuff to be quite that old. There's no real upgrade path for you. I'd rather have a E-350 Brazos laptop over your rig. Can be had for $450. Llano is a better option but can't beat the ~7 hour battery life of Brazos.. which will at least play Team Fortress 2.
 
Obsoleet said:
On Intel? Then no. Next time go AMD, I am.

edit- Didn't expect your stuff to be quite that old. There's no real upgrade path for you. I'd rather have a E-350 Brazos laptop over your rig. Can be had for $450. Llano is a better option but can't beat the ~7 hour battery life of Brazos.. which will at least play Team Fortress 2.
Click to expand...

Sounded like he was asking about a desktop, not laptop.
 
Just one more question. If I wait for Llano to take advantage of the better onboard video, are the rest of the components (motherboard) going to be new technology as well or would one of the current AM3 boards work?

I'm seeing something about AM3+ but haven't seen any boards that use this socket yet.
 
wolfestone said:
Just one more question. If I wait for Llano to take advantage of the better onboard video, are the rest of the components (motherboard) going to be new technology as well or would one of the current AM3 boards work?

I'm seeing something about AM3+ but haven't seen any boards that use this socket yet.
Click to expand...

Llano has a completely new socket, it's not even AM3+.
The llano stuff has just hit production and should be on the market within a month or two.

The only real advantage of Llano over a current Athlon II system is going to be the cost savings (and power and heat) of getting what would have been a $50-$70 video card built in. That said, there are some wicked deals on Athlon II systems right now, especially if you live near a microcenter, and newegg is having combo deals all the time.

Presumably, Llano would have a longer upgrade path too, at the very least there would be a Llano 2 to drop in a few years from now.
 
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