Any ultraportable gamers excited about the MSI GS40 Phantom?

[fuzzybabybunny]

I'm starting to look at doing a system upgrade. I currently have a light 3.5lb 13" Asus UX32VD which, thanks to an excellent screen and upgrade-able RAM and 2.5" SSD, has been chugging nicely along for the past 3-4 years. But I really really miss the ability to game.

So I made this spreadsheet for sub-4lb gaming laptops with GTX 970Ms.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16xuTNqdsIHxaF9joe1hRFhaHGJ01xJ3qDQ5dJd0z1co/edit?usp=sharing

There's really only two options that are reasonably priced, the Gigabyte P34Wv4 / v3, and the brand new, un-reviewed MSI GS40 6QE PHANTOM.

The big problem with the Gigabyte is that it gets really really hot (95C!) and besides throttling often, which limits the maximum usage of the hardware, I think it could seriously decrease hardware life. I don't want to spend $1600 and have something flake out on me after the warranty is over due to heat.

The new MSI GS40 Phantom is built on a new chipset, which should mean it runs cooler, although probably only slightly. It also can come with a 4K screen, although that'll probably be really pricey.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[linkgoron]

I'm in the same dillema as you. I'm waiting for GS40 reviews
Although truth be told, I would have probably bought the new Dell XPS 15 if it had a 4GB 960 instead of a 2GB one.

Note that some new laptops are also appearing. The Aorus x3 plus v5 is already available for pre-order at XoticPC. The p35(x/w) v5 are also available for pre-order in Europe which might mean that the new p34 versions will also be available soon.

Also, there's a nice list here:
http://alteredqualia.com/texts/notebooks/

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I'm in the same dillema as you. I'm waiting for GS40 reviews
Although truth be told, I would have probably bought the new Dell XPS 15 if it had a 4GB 960 instead of a 2GB one.

Note that some new laptops are also appearing. The Aorus x3 plus v5 is already available for pre-order at XoticPC. The p35(x/w) v5 are also available for pre-order in Europe which might mean that the new p34 versions will also be available soon.

Also, there's a nice list here:
http://alteredqualia.com/texts/notebooks/

Cool. I'm personally only looking at something that's 14" or smaller and 4lb tops since I travel a ton, and that limits my choices severely.

The Aorus ones look alright, but they're not exactly bang for the buck efficient.

 

[fralexandr]

the GS40 says it uses cooler boost 3, with 5 heatpipes, for what it's worth
http://event.msi.com/nb/faq/q20.html
the diagram seems to be for the gt72, the gt80 cooling appears to be drastically different even though it's also cooler boost 3

the p34w uses a similar setup, though it has 2 combined heatpipes
http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_MG_5097_Copy_be4908e30b.jpg

It seems likely that they'll have similar cooling results, due to the thermal load (970m 81W TDP; skylake i7 ~45W TDP), though it probably depends on what fans and heatsinks are used. They both probably use liquid filled copper heatpipes and Aluminum fins? Maybe gigabyte underprovisioned its cooling setup due to the combined heatpipes, hoping the GPU and CPU wouldn't both be close to 100% load at the same time...

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

the GS40 says it uses cooler boost 3, for what it's worth
http://event.msi.com/nb/faq/q20.html

the p34w uses a similar setup, though the heatpipes are combined
http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_MG_5097_Copy_be4908e30b.jpg

It seems likely that they'll have similar cooling results, due to the thermal load (970m 81W TDP; skylake i7 ~45W TDP) and the dual hsf cooling setups, though it probably depends on what fans are used.
Would the combined heatpipes on the p34w improve performance due to sharing the thermal load (significantly higher GPU TDP) across 2 fans/heatsinks?

One review I read stated that the shared heatpipe was the *reason* it has so much overheating due to the hot 4720HQ.

http://www.ultrabookreview.com/8110-razer-blade-gigabyte-p34wv3/

The CPU by itself already maxes out the cooling system even if the GPU is relatively cool. Because the cooling is connected, the high CPU temps affect the GPU temps. Another review stated that the GPU throttles itself and you lose ~100 MHz of clock speed within a few *minutes* of gaming....

So, uh, it seems like the only saving grace is that there is a lot of extra power in reserve so that even with the throttling, performance isn't ruined. But the thermals get overwhelmed practically instantaneously.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

The Cooler Boost 3 seems like a much better implementation so that heat isn't shared between components.

 

[fralexandr]

with 1 less hard drive bay, aluminum unibody, and ~0.5lbs extra weight (probably mostly due to the aluminum unibody?) the razer blade better have better cooling .

The gs40 is probably plastic bottomed, if it's like the gs70 & gt72, and weighs so little .
Don't know how big of an impact that will have, though

the Aorus x3 v3 looks like it uses a similar cooler setup to the gigabyte p34?
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Aorus-X3-Plus-v3-Notebook-Review.142652.0.html
it has an aluminum chassis (non unibody; been a while since I've seen one of those!) though, and no cooling issues.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

with 1 less hard drive bay, aluminum unibody, and ~0.5lbs extra weight (probably mostly due to the aluminum unibody?) the razer blade better have better cooling .

The gs40 is probably plastic bottomed, if it's like the gs70 & gt72, and weighs so little .
Don't know how big of an impact that will have, though

I would think that unibody would add an appreciable amount of extra cooling. Much more volume for the extra heat to go into and also acts as multiple extra surfaces for the heat to dissipate from. The only thing plastic does is serve to hold in the heat

 

[fralexandr]

link to a comparison of Aorus/Gigabyte/Razer, with cooling setups
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Face-Off-Aorus-X3-Plus-vs-Gigabyte-P34W-vs-Razer-Blade-14.142980.0.html

http://www.kitguru.net/laptops/leo-waldock/msi-gs40-6qe-phantom-exclusive-preview/
has some pictures of the cooling on the gs40 nonretail sample. Kitguru says msi plans on changing the bottom panel and cooling for the retail sample?
Hopefully that's good news?

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

link to a comparison of Aorus/Gigabyte/Razer, with cooling setups
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Face-Off-Aorus-X3-Plus-vs-Gigabyte-P34W-vs-Razer-Blade-14.142980.0.html

All three have a shared heatpipe setup. The Gigabyte is the only one with a plastic chassis, and the only one that throttles... which worries me. It looks like it's *impossible* to get the full potential from the hardware in the Gigabyte because throttling sets in so quickly.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Well, I'm still interested in the new MSI with Cooler Boost 3. I'm very curious to see how the split setup with the 5 heat pipes works out. It should be much better for the CPU at least since it now has three (two independent) heatpipes dedicated to it.

Ironically, the Gigabyte has a lower overall temperature than the other two, which means the components should probably last longer.

 

[stateofmind]

i won't be too excited.. probably an overheating block
I would consider the XPS 15 instead, with eGPU (probably TB3 )

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

i won't be too excited.. probably an overheating block
I would consider the XPS 15 instead, with eGPU (probably TB3 )

Are Thunderbolt eGPUs catching on? It's been a while since I looked at them.

The XPS 15 doesn't seem to have the 970M, only the 960M. Maybe I'm missing something?

Possible to upgrade the RAM and SSD on the machine with standard components?

 

[linkgoron]

Are Thunderbolt eGPUs catching on? It's been a while since I looked at them.

The XPS 15 doesn't seem to have the 970M, only the 960M. Maybe I'm missing something?

Possible to upgrade the RAM and SSD on the machine with standard components?

Supposedly with TB3, eGPUs are actually going to happen. (soon)
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...g-4th-quarter-2015-mainstream-in-2016.777013/
http://hexus.net/tech/news/peripherals/85697-thunderbolt-3-external-graphics-demoed-idf-2015/

The dell XPS 15 has a 960M with 2GB of memory. It does (however) fit your <4 lbs criteria, as it's 3.9lbs.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Supposedly with TB3, eGPUs are actually going to happen. (soon)
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...g-4th-quarter-2015-mainstream-in-2016.777013/
http://hexus.net/tech/news/peripherals/85697-thunderbolt-3-external-graphics-demoed-idf-2015/

The dell XPS 15 has a 960M with 2GB of memory. It does (however) fit your <4 lbs criteria, as it's 3.9lbs.

The 960M sours everything unfortunately. The 970M is significantly faster than the 960M. It's close to having two 960M in SLI. At 4K I don't expect the 960M to run much of anything. And eGPU isn't really a permanent option for me since I move around a lot.

The XPS 15 will also NEVER get the 970M as an option because "product segmentation" basically forbids Dell from letting the XPS encroach into the Alienware line. The lightest Alienware with the 970M is 7lbs... no thanks.

 

[linkgoron]

I mostly agree with you.

Anyway, from what I've seen the GS40 is shipping today/tommorow so I'm hoping we'll see reviews in the next few days. For myself, I'm also considering the GS60 (it's 15.6) as at ~4.2lbs it's actually lighter than the Razer.

 

[XavierMace]

The 960M sours everything unfortunately. The 970M is significantly faster than the 960M. It's close to having two 960M in SLI. At 4K I don't expect the 960M to run much of anything. And eGPU isn't really a permanent option for me since I move around a lot.

If you're expecting the 970M to play AAA titles well at 4K, you've got another thought coming.

I can't speak to the mobile versions but my primary desktop has a 970 and my HTPC has a 960. I find the 960 to be quite adequate for 1080p gaming. Is the 970 faster? Absolutely. But, if it was me, it wouldn't be enough to make a 960 a non-consideration.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

link to a comparison of Aorus/Gigabyte/Razer, with cooling setups
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Face-Off-Aorus-X3-Plus-vs-Gigabyte-P34W-vs-Razer-Blade-14.142980.0.html

http://www.kitguru.net/laptops/leo-waldock/msi-gs40-6qe-phantom-exclusive-preview/
has some pictures of the cooling on the gs40 nonretail sample. Kitguru says msi plans on changing the bottom panel and cooling for the retail sample?
Hopefully that's good news?

Here are better photos of the cooling setup:

http://www.kitguru.net/laptops/leo-waldock/msi-gs40-6qe-phantom-exclusive-preview/

Now I definitely believe this should be cooler than the Gigabyte P34W. The CPU area is completely covered in heatpipes that lead to *two* exhaust ports on the right corner of the machine, each port with fins. The GPU has its own fan and one exhaust port out the back as well as the bridge heatpipe. This, combined with the slightly lower voltage requirement of the new generation CPU, should mean temps are better controlled.

And it's nice to see two slots for DDR4 (up to 32GB) and a standard SATA 2.5" drive + PCIe M.2 SSD. This machine should be easily upgradeable and the battery should also be easy to replace years down the line once its worn down.

I'm liking this machine more and more. Two standard USB 3.0 ports and an additional type C, so 3 in all.

EDIT: Crap, just looked at the video. They explicitly told the reviewer that the cooling system in this preview unit *will not* be the same as in the production version.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

If you're expecting the 970M to play AAA titles well at 4K, you've got another thought coming.

I can't speak to the mobile versions but my primary desktop has a 970 and my HTPC has a 960. I find the 960 to be quite adequate for 1080p gaming. Is the 970 faster? Absolutely. But, if it was me, it wouldn't be enough to make a 960 a non-consideration.

Yeah, the 970M won't be able to play at 4K, but it will be able to play at 2K on a 4K display and still look sharp since there doesn't need to be any interpolation.

The 4K in non-gaming usage will just make everything look buttery smooth. I'd imagine photo and video editing would be awesome on a 4K display.

 

[Zodiark1593]

If you're expecting the 970M to play AAA titles well at 4K, you've got another thought coming.

I can't speak to the mobile versions but my primary desktop has a 970 and my HTPC has a 960. I find the 960 to be quite adequate for 1080p gaming. Is the 970 faster? Absolutely. But, if it was me, it wouldn't be enough to make a 960 a non-consideration.

There is a much larger difference between the laptop 960M and 970M than the desktop 960 and 970. While the desktop variants have somewhere in the range of 30%-40% difference in raw compute, the laptop 970M has literally 2x (100%) the compute resources of the 960M.

 

[linkgoron]

Supposedly the Clevo 640RE (Clevo 14") is coming in "the next few weeks", although it is supposed to be a bit heavier, at 4.4 lbs.

Also, according to a Gigabyte rep at Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/gigabytega...ylake_gigabyte_laptop_especially_p34w_series/) "the Skylake P34W series will be out by the end of Nov 2015"

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Supposedly the Clevo 640RE (Clevo 14") is coming in "the next few weeks", although it is supposed to be a bit heavier, at 4.4 lbs.

Also, according to a Gigabyte rep at Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/gigabytega...ylake_gigabyte_laptop_especially_p34w_series/) "the Skylake P34W series will be out by the end of Nov 2015"

Cool. From that Reddit post someone said it'll be the same chassis as the P34W, in which case no thanks. It seems that they still haven't learned from their thermal management mistakes with the v4. I don't want to buy a machine that starts throttling within 10 minutes of running a game.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

So it looks like the GS40 decently manages thermals:

http://www.notebookchat.com/index.php?topic=54221.0

You'll need to translate this into English. And the review is for a pre-production unit so I'm hoping that the results of actual production units is better.

- There is throttling going on but only very briefly.

- The case is aluminum.

- Gaming sounds impossible on battery since the system throttles the graphics card *hard* when it's only on battery.

- The case is easy to remove and replacing components is easy.

- The battery should be easy to replace but it is glued in. Not sure if simply pulling on the battery will be enough to remove it. Generally high temperatures is the #1 case of lower lithium battery life, so in a gaming laptop even with good thermal management I expect that a battery replacement down the line will be tempting.

I think everything sounds promising.