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Any snowmobilers on this forum?

BurnItDwn

BurnItDwn

Lifer
:: UPDATE ::
I purchased an 87 and 90 Yamaha Phazer last weekend. They are sitting in my driveway. Both start on the 1st pull. Ready for snow!!!



So, I took my 12 year old cousin to a snowmobile safety class last weekend. He now has his certificate (so he can drive a sled in IL, WI, MI, and I think IN.) I am getting my tow kit installed on my Forester this weekend or the next (ordered it last week, just a class 2 kit, but that's plenty for a 2 place trailer with a couple sleds.)

Now, I'm looking to pick up a couple of vintage sleds.

Ideally, I think I want late 70s or early 80s air or fan cooled Yamaha 440 sleds .....
My uncle had a 1978 GP 440 that we rode the hell out of for decades. He lost it in his bankruptcy recently. It was rather brutal to ride, very very rough, almost no suspension, but holy hell it handled well, and seemed to accelerate very fast.

It seems like on CL a good number of people are also selling vintage Arctic Cat and Polaris sleds from the same era 1979-1985 for around $500 a piece. All the sleds I've ever used/maintained in the past have been Yamaha's from between 78 and 87 (GP 440, Excel, Exciter, Bravo.) I've never really done any other maintenance besides regular checks (checking belts, checking track, checking and filling fluids, changing light bulb, etc.) I think I could handle rebuilding a carb, as it seems to be very well documented online (and if I need a hand, one of my ex's is dating a mechanic ..... I'm sure they will ask to borrow the sleds some day anyhow, may as well put him to work before they borrow them ... lol.)

Anyhow ... I can't wait to get my 2 sleds!!! I know what to check for as far as making sure I'm not buying lemons. It will be hard to resist the urge to buy the first sled I see, but I'll try my hardest. It's been about 3 years since I've done any snowmobiling, and of course last year we had a TON of snow. I am really really looking forward to it this year.


Anybody else here into sledding?

Am I crazy for looking for two ancient vintage sleds when I'm not a mechanic?
Would I be infinitely better off looking for 1 more modern sled this year, and then picking up a second when more funds are available in 1 or 2 years?

Ideally .. I'd like 2 sleds so I can go with family/friends, but it doesn't make sense if I get two that don't run.....
There is a forest preserve with about 10 miles of trails under 3 miles from my house that I could tow to. There is also a trail running through a park about 200 feet from my house. I would technically need to ride on the roadway to get to it (so it wouldn't be legal unless I were to tow), but it's close enough that no Wauconda cop or DNR cop would ticket me.... Also have family in Sturgeon bay WI with direct access to Green Bay (not the city, the actual bay), and very near to the trails at Pottawatomie State park. So ... I got plenty of places to ride ... and not too much costs. (Illinois Registration is $18 for 3 years per sled, will probably dual register in Wi since you don't really save any money with a trail pass vs a registration, and registration means more money going towards maintaining the trails.)

Currently, my other uncle has a 1985 Yamaha Excel with a 340 in it. And my aunt has a little 250 Bravo. my sister crashed it into a tree around 1996 or 1997. The bumper was fixed, and the cowling replaced, and has since ran for a decent amount of miles. It's a bit on the slow side, and doesn't really support my weight ..... but it's just so durable it's insane.... They just don't make em like they used to! Now it's $10000 for a new sled and I hear they even sometimes break down!
 
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If you don't mind spending as much time doing repairs as riding, go for it. To be blunt older sleds are maintenance nightmares. You would be better off getting a modern sled that is 10 years old or less.
 
that's the one thing i miss about northern winters. i used to go snowmobiling all the time. my grandfather had an old one that my cousin and i would take out on snow days.

i don't miss the cold though. i'm still trying to figure out a way to have lots of snow at 60 degrees.
 
I find all snowmobiles to be a pain the arse
New old whatever they are like helocpters 3 hrs maint for every hr of 'fun time'
 
Interesting ...

My uncles 78 GP440 never broke down and never went to a mechanic since he bought it in 1985 until he sold it just a few years ago. Pretty much the only maintenance that was done was regular routine maintenance like spark plugs and drive belts, other than I think he rebuilt the carb once ...

Maybe it was just luck though ....

I guess I'll see for myself this winter ....
Don't have the cash to put down and get newer sleds, and don't want to finance anything (already got a mortgage and a car payment, don't need any more loans, lol). Also, don't want to wait yet another year to buy (I've been "waiting till next year" since I got my first job in 1996.) Not gonna wait any more!

When I post complaining about my breakdowns in December/January ... I expect a few "I told you so" comments 🙂 hehehehe
 
crazySOB297 said:
WTF is snow? Are these "snowmobiles" similar to our four wheelers in texas?
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Lol, Snow is great. I wish there could be snow year round!
We have 4 wheelers around here too .... and they can be a lot of fun too, but not quite like a snowmobile.

Given at least 4 inches of snow over frozen ground, Snowmobiles are much more aggressive at acceleration, their top speed is a lot higher, they have a lower center of gravity, and they can handle a lot more lateral g's. Now, I know they have tracks for 4 wheelers, but they really can't compare to a snowmobile at all.

I'd say a 4 wheeler is closer to a golf cart than a snowmobile 🙂

That said ... I've never driven anything bigger than a 250 ATV, and it was a 3 wheeler. And the snowmobiles I played with have ranged from 250 to 440 (2 stroke.)
 
BurnItDwn said:
Lol, Snow is great. I wish there could be snow year round!
We have 4 wheelers around here too .... and they can be a lot of fun too, but not quite like a snowmobile.

Given at least 4 inches of snow over frozen ground, Snowmobiles are much more aggressive at acceleration, their top speed is a lot higher, they have a lower center of gravity, and they can handle a lot more lateral g's. Now, I know they have tracks for 4 wheelers, but they really can't compare to a snowmobile at all.

I'd say a 4 wheeler is closer to a golf cart than a snowmobile 🙂

That said ... I've never driven anything bigger than a 250 ATV, and it was a 3 wheeler. And the snowmobiles I played with have ranged from 250 to 440 (2 stroke.)
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That's a bit of an unfair comparison since you haven ridden on a comparable quad before. Try a Raptor 700 and get back to me on the acceleration point 🙂
 
dude. go to sturgeon bay to ride. actually go futher north then that and head up to northern Door County. I grew up in Sister Bay which is about 30 minutes north of Sturgeon Bay. i used to be able to snowmobile to highschool because we had trails that went right to the school, it was awesome in the years before i had a drivers license. they have some beautiful trails up there and you are almost gauranteed to see some wildlife as you ride. the first time i ever took my wife out on the snowmobile we saw deer and turkeys up there.

last winter was the first year i did not get to go out since i have owned a snowmobile, and it sucked. i just could not swing it since i got married last january(it was worth it though 🙂 ) my snowmobile is up in Door County and i now live down by milwaukee and live in an apartment so i have no place to store it. it is hard to get up there and use it, but i am hoping to get a few days in this year.

little bit of advice on the snowmobile. my first sled was a 1970's Johnson Phantom. it went faster in reverse then it did going forward. i now have a 1997 polaris indy Sport. even though it is 12 years old now it is 100 times the machine the 1970's one was. i would recommend getting a newer model and then buying a second one when time/budgets allow. if you have not ridden one you will be amazed at the ride quality and handling differences you will see. plus it should be alot more reliable.
 
crazySOB297 said:
That's a bit of an unfair comparison since you haven ridden on a comparable quad before. Try a Raptor 700 and get back to me on the acceleration point 🙂
Click to expand...

Very true, not a fair comparison at all. Maybe I'm just jealous that 4 wheelers get to play all year long and snowmobiles are only good a few months of the year 🙂


phreaqe said:
dude. go to sturgeon bay to ride. actually go futher north then that and head up to northern Door County. I grew up in Sister Bay which is about 30 minutes north of Sturgeon Bay. i used to be able to snowmobile to highschool because we had trails that went right to the school, it was awesome in the years before i had a drivers license. they have some beautiful trails up there and you are almost gauranteed to see some wildlife as you ride. the first time i ever took my wife out on the snowmobile we saw deer and turkeys up there.

last winter was the first year i did not get to go out since i have owned a snowmobile, and it sucked. i just could not swing it since i got married last january(it was worth it though 🙂 ) my snowmobile is up in Door County and i now live down by milwaukee and live in an apartment so i have no place to store it. it is hard to get up there and use it, but i am hoping to get a few days in this year.

little bit of advice on the snowmobile. my first sled was a 1970's Johnson Phantom. it went faster in reverse then it did going forward. i now have a 1997 polaris indy Sport. even though it is 12 years old now it is 100 times the machine the 1970's one was. i would recommend getting a newer model and then buying a second one when time/budgets allow. if you have not ridden one you will be amazed at the ride quality and handling differences you will see. plus it should be alot more reliable.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. I rode with aunts/uncles in the Surgeon Bay area pretty much my whole life (uncles each bought a sled when I was 4.) I know the trails pretty well around there. I love Potawotami state park (Right over by Cherryland Airport), and it's only about 3 miles or so north of my grandma's house. We just used to just ride from my grandma's lawn down the rocks, and right onto green aby, then ride towards the boat launch at the park where people park and there is trail access .... I've been all over the county, but my aunts/uncles never towed their sleds anywhere .... so never sledded too far from my grandma's house .....

Where I'm at now, even though it's Illinois, actually is pretty good for sledding. I'm about 20 miles south of the Wisconsin border, and a good 30 miles or so West of Lake Michigan. Seems like I get hit by all the same exact snowstoms that hit Kenosha. There are many forest preserves and trails near my house, I see deer on a regular basis during my daily commute, and I'm less than 1 block away from a lake and a snowmobile trail. (as well as about 2 miles away from a big forest preserve with more trails) I do plan on taking some time off to go up north, but I'll be doing as much sledding as I can in my own town. If there's snow in Door County and it's dry here... thats when I'm heading north.... (though last year, we had a LOT more snow here than in Door County...)

As far as ride quality goes, I like a rougher riding sled. My aunt had a Bravo, was a little 250 sled, and was a newwer one than my uncles sleds, maybe even as new as like 1989 or 1988. It had a somewhat soft suspension. It was Very easy to handle and rode very nice and very smooth, but that is exactly the opposite of what I'm looking for. My uncles 78 GP440 was so much more fun. It was harsh, unforgiving, and if you hit a bump and went airborne, the landing hurt, even if you only made it 1 or 2 feet high. I want an ole mean late 70s era air cooled yamaha 440 for me. Then, maybe a newer 340 for friends/family to ride when they go with me. (something more forgiving, hah)

I don't plan to ride any newer sleds, because I really don't want to get too hooked. Next year, I should have a bigger budget to buy something much newer (perhaps a vmax, got a decent promotion this year at work, which means for the first time I'll get a bonus check next year to help pay for a sled.)

And I know it probably makes more sense to buy 1 sled this year and 1 the next, but I really much prefer 2 sleds, that way, when one breaks down, I can tow it with the other one🙂 Also, I plan to ride with my cousin, brother, and friends ... who all live within about a 20-30 minute drive. pretty much only going to ride when there are at least 2 people on 2 sleds. Ideally I'd prefer to just keep 2 sleds, but I have enough room in my yard to store a few of them back behind my shed with covers .... No garage on my property unfortunatly, and due to requirement to have them at least 30 feet from the street, don't have room to build one here .... (otherwise I may just rent a storage unit in town ... but probably not unless I get a newish sled eventually)

Besides, all the new sleds have all this extra crap that I don't want. I want a 440 or bigger 2 cycle, 2 cylinder sled.
No reverse -- adds extra weight and complication to the sled. More things that can go wrong.
No battery/No electric start -- Not worth the money to replace the battery every 3 or 4 years, not worth the money to buy a charger. Pull start works fine.
I'd rather top off the oil than change the oil.

About the only "luxury" I want is hand warmers. Also, while a speedo isn't necessary, a tach is nice to have (though really, not needed as you can tell by the sound.)


ViviTheMage said:
We used to ride 4k+ miles eevery winter, oodles of trips through Wisconsin to the UP-Michigan.
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Never been to the UP here, and probably won't go this year, but once I have a sled I know I can trust, I'll hopefully head up there in a year or two. One of my friends from work used to go every year until he gave up his sled recently.
 
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ViviTheMage said:
I want to pick one up again, I have a feeling it'll be a good snow season.
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My prediction:

Last year I had no snowmobile and a FWD Chrysler with bald tires.
Now I have an AWD Subaru with new tires and hopefully I'll have 2 working sleds.

Thus, we'll get like 2-3 inches of snow this winter, not enough to sled, just enough to tease!
 
There are advantages (And disadvantages) to the older sleds. They are relatively easy to work on and parts are still fairly cheap. Newer sleds are great, but the computer controlled EFI, expensive body parts, etc. make them costly.... I had 2 Yamaha Exciters, 1979 and a 1980, and they were a ball. Had a 1980 Yamaha SRX, that was one of the fastest sleds at the time, but it was very finicky to tune, and loved to lean out and burn pistons.

I had a Polaris or 2 that were fine, but my overall favorite sled was a 1998 Ski-Doo MXZ 583. I currently have a sweet 1986 Arctic Cat Pantera that I love, but I don't ride much any more.

There is a snowmobile auction twice a month in Bronson, MI, that you might want to check out. Older sleds go dirt cheap there because everyone wants the latest and greatest: http://www.snowmobileauction.com/

It should be about 3-4 hours or so from your house.

Another thing that is catching on is asphalt drag racing on snowmobiles. My nephew is in to it big time. Here is a pic of his Ski Doo that runs 9.80's @ 130mph in the 1/4 mile:
_DSC0084.jpg


Hope you and the boy have fun with it, I know we have (I have 2 boys).

Bob
 
Thanks for the advice and comments.
Last weekend I picked up a 1987 and 1990 Yamaha Phazer (both are 480s) and a trailer for just under $1300. They are beat up, but they both start on the 1st pull. Both are under 4K miles, and tracks look like they are in decent shape. Haven't taken them out yet (not enough snow). Gotta replace one of the headlamp bulbs, and need to pick up a spare drive belt (both use the same type fortunately), and gotta get myself a new helmet .... Ohh ... and need to rewire the trailer .... And need to do paperwork (registration for the sleds, I want dual registration for IL and WI)

Anyhow ... I can't wait to take them out, and my cousin Kyle was most excited!
 
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Congratulations! I bought my first sled recently, too - need to tweak a few things and we'll be ready to go. 😀
 
Here is my advice.
Look for a Phazer/Phazer II, I've seen them down in the 500-700$ range on CL. Simple 56hp 485cc fan cooled engine that will go well over 10,000 miles without any issues. The Pogo sticks are a HUGE jump in ride/handling over spring/ski suspension.

Seems like you want a Yamaha, Which is what I ride, but also take a look at the Polaris Indy Classic 440/500 fan cooled sleds, 440 Super Sport, or the 400/500 liquids. Yamaha like reliability out of those sleds.

I just ditched my 2 stroke and Put a new 09' Phazer MTX in the garage.
 
I'd love to but we don't get snow here. 🙁

Quads are a lot of fun and you don't have to wait until it snows to use 'em!
 
Minerva said:
I'd love to but we don't get snow here. 🙁

Quads are a lot of fun and you don't have to wait until it snows to use 'em!
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Unfortunately (at least here), the trail network for quads is practically non-existent, as we can't use them on the snowmobile trails. 🙁
 
BurnItDwn said:
Thanks for the advice and comments.
Last weekend I picked up a 1987 and 1990 Yamaha Exciter (both are 480s) and a trailer for just under $1300. They are beat up, but they both start on the 1st pull. Both are under 4K miles, and tracks look like they are in decent shape. Haven't taken them out yet (not enough snow). Gotta replace one of the headlamp bulbs, and need to pick up a spare drive belt (both use the same type fortunately), and gotta get myself a new helmet .... Ohh ... and need to rewire the trailer .... And need to do paperwork (registration for the sleds, I want dual registration for IL and WI)

Anyhow ... I can't wait to take them out, and my cousin Kyle was most excited!
Click to expand...

The Exciters are good machines depending on their condition. I rode a 1990 model for about 8 years. All in all they are fun as they have a great power / weight ratio. With a long track they will hang with most mountain sleds. However the front strut suspension can be terrible on a rough trail compared to modern sleds. You will also like having a liquid cooled machine vs air cooled like the Phazers, they are so much more reliable and not as temperamental in warm weather.

Currently I ride a 98 Ski-Doo Summit-X 670, that is when I actually get out and ride. Gas gets expensive for these gas hogs 🙂
 
Uhtrinity said:
The Exciters are good machines depending on their condition. I rode a 1990 model for about 8 years. All in all they are fun as they have a great power / weight ratio. With a long track they will hang with most mountain sleds. However the front strut suspension can be terrible on a rough trail compared to modern sleds. You will also like having a liquid cooled machine vs air cooled like the Phazers, they are so much more reliable and not as temperamental in warm weather.

Currently I ride a 98 Ski-Doo Summit-X 670, that is when I actually get out and ride. Gas gets expensive for these gas hogs 🙂
Click to expand...

Cool, I edited my post, was thinking Exciter because a previous CL deal that had fallen through was for Exciters, I got Phazers, which have better suspension than the Exciters .....

Got a service manual for both sleds too .... Just waiting for the snow (and registration, though in IL, I have a temp registration good for 120 days ....)
 
rancherlee said:
Here is my advice.
Look for a Phazer/Phazer II, I've seen them down in the 500-700$ range on CL. Simple 56hp 485cc fan cooled engine that will go well over 10,000 miles without any issues. The Pogo sticks are a HUGE jump in ride/handling over spring/ski suspension.

Seems like you want a Yamaha, Which is what I ride, but also take a look at the Polaris Indy Classic 440/500 fan cooled sleds, 440 Super Sport, or the 400/500 liquids. Yamaha like reliability out of those sleds.

I just ditched my 2 stroke and Put a new 09' Phazer MTX in the garage.
Click to expand...

Hehehe ... I actually got two Phazers ... an 87 and a 90 🙂 around 4K miles on both of them.... Got both of them and a trailer for $1365, don't think I did too bad, though I need to rewire the trailer to make it street legal, and need to fix the headlamp on one of the sleds to make it trail legal ....

Just waiting for the snow 🙂
 
man you have bad taste, i always thought the older yamahas were the ugly stepchildren of the snowmobile world. Hideous. ...and this is coming from the guy who owns a 1997 polaris indy sport in the fuchsia color. google it if you want to see how truly ugly my snowmobile is.....😀

on a serious note, hope you enjoy them man. i live somewhat near you and hoping we get a good blizzard soon. this last one was way over hyped and only gave us a little bit of snow. wish i could have my snowmobile with me but living in an apartment sucks sometimes.
 
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