Any point in getting a Powerbook...

[NeoArtis]

Hi,

sorry if you're sick and tired of having to answer questions like these... I've currently got a desktop that's got to go (P4-1,6GHz). It has served me well, but I'm moving and the computer stays with my mum. Basically she's agreed to "adopt" it, and give me $1,500 to get a new laptop (hi mum - love you).

Now, I'm no real gamer, I mainly use my computer for web design: photoshop, illustrator, some dreamweaver. I'm also a semiprofessional photgrapher.

I've never really used a Mac, but everyone keeps telling me that they are excellent for my tasks. So I'm not sure if I should get one... I'm specifically thinking about a 15" Powerbook. But what is a girl to do?

My only doubts are: will I get more bangs for my bucks if I go Intel/Windows? I've tried asking this question at different Mac forums, but the only response I get is:

1) OS X "ruuuuulez"
2) Why the f**k are you asking this on a Mac forum?
3) My three year old Powerbook is "fast enough" (whatever that means?)
4) Macs look better than a Windows laptop

My response to this is:
1) I don't really care about the OS. I've been using XP for the last couple of years, and it's never acted up on me
2) Sorry, won't happen again
3) I'm not looking for a laptop that's "fast enough", I'm working on large images in photoshop, lots of filters - so a computer can never be fast enough for that kind of work
4) I agree, but I'll take performance over design any day of the week when it comes to computers

Since battery life is somewhat important, my alternative is to get a Windows/Intel machine with a P-M CPU.

A friend of mine recommended Anandtech as the place to ask these questions, so I'm giving it a shot.

Thank you for your time!

NeoA

 

[Accord99]

In terms of performance, the Pentium-M, especially with the new 90nm versions, is significantly more powerful than the G4 in the vast majority of applications while using less power. Also, while Apple offers up to a 17" LCD panel for their laptops, they're rather low-resolution (15" is 1280x854, 17" is 1440x900) compared to the options available on PC laptops. You can often find PC laptops with a 14.1" screen offering a resolution of 1400x1050 and 15.4" widescreen displays with resolutions 1680x1050 or 1920x1200. The additional space offered by the high resolution screen would for me be of great help for the applications that you listed.

 

[manko]

Well, you sound like someone who is comfortable with Windows and isn't attracted to to the Powerbook for aesthetic reasons. In that case, I would say there's no reason to go with a Powerbook over a Pentium-M machine.

I've worked with both platforms in a professional production environment and the bottom line is, you can do creative work equally well on both machines. You can argue benchmarks until the end of time, but I'm talking about using the machines as tools to get the job done. The Mac doesn't offer any special advantages for someone who is already familiar and productive working in Windows. All the applications you mentioned are available and work just as well on Windows.

The only cases I would recommend going with Mac would be if you are in a predominately Mac working environment, if you have Mac-centric clients or if the majority of your peers use Mac and you needed to rely on their support.

Familiarity with the system will probably make more of a difference in your productivity than a few seconds here and there in render times. Someone who has worked for years on a Mac can do great work on them, regardless of the technical specs of the hardware. In the same way, plenty of other people work equally well on Windows systems. An open-minded person can get things done on both platforms.

I personally think that there's an unwarranted bias against Windows machines for creative work (among Mac users anyway). I think Macs had a tangible advantage in the 1990s, but these days Windows machines are perfectly capabable of performing all the same creative production tasks at least as well, if not better than Mac systems.

Here's a site with a few Powerbook vs. Power Mac (and other) benchmarks:

Aluminum PowerBooks Take On The Fastest Power Macs

What I find significant is the the Powerbooks are much slower than the high end Power Macs (due to the desktop machines having G5 chips and/or multi-processors). When Mac evangelists talk about performance, they're usually talking about desktop machines. It's just my opinion, but it seems that a high-end Intel/AMD/Windows laptop is much closer in performance to it's Windows high-end desktop counterpart in CPU performance than a Powerbook is to a desktop Power Mac.

Bottom-line, if you're not worried about looks and design, I think you would get more bang for your buck with a Pentium-M machine. You would certainly be able to be productive on a Powerbook, but it wouldn't offer you any advantages over a Windows system.


Also, have a look at this recent discussion, which specifically mentions poor Dreamweaver performance problems on the Powerbook:

Powerbook G4 vs. Centrino 1.6GHz

 

[NeoArtis]

Thank you both for those replies! It sure helps out to know that both platforms offer the needed performance! But this looks like quite an easy descision for me: the Intel/Windows machine I've looked at (HP zt3000 series) is quite a lot cheaper than the Powerbook, so I might just save some $ there.

 

[Dman877]

Originally posted by: NeoArtis

"will I get more bangs for my bucks"

NeoA

Um... yeah that's bang-for-buck .

 

[addragyn]

Why would you leave OS X out of the equation?

Most of the answers you'll get here will be megahertz focused. Which is almost *never* the issue with contemporary hardware, Wintel or Mac.

If this is how you pay the bills consider whether you really need a laptop. A dual CPU desktop with a larger screen or two is a vastly different machine to work on.

For a single user w/o the backing of a company IT department managing a Windows machine w/ regards to spyware, viruses and other malware versus a Mac is a big difference. I know folks who've moved to a Mac for that reason alone. They didn't know how and didn't care to learn how to deal with those issues. Even if you do know how the question is - do you want to focus time, energy, money & computing resources in that direction?

If you're stuck on Dreamweaver then know it runs very poorly on a Mac. Poorly enough to be a big strike against. Two alternatives are, Stone Studio & Freeway Pro.

If you use LAMP OS X is an a ready to go testing platform OOTB. In addition you can use VPC to test most any browser on your code. All on the localhost! This is unmatched on any platform.

If your serving is MS centric well then you need to complete that circle and get a PC w/ Windows.

It's definitely easier to find deals on PCs. Apple's pricing is very consistent. There are a few discounts out there on the Apple stuff. See my post in this thread.

Expose is a big productivity enhancer doing creative work.

Depending on your clients are the PDF workflow in OS X may be a big plus.

My perspective is from production(web & print), doing PC consulting & support, and being a good little geek who does some amateur photography and a bit 'o video.

 

[NeoArtis]

Originally posted by: addragyn
Why would you leave OS X out of the equation?

Thank you for your reply. The reason for leaving OS X out of the equation is that I don't plan to spend my time in the OS. I know there are functions that are useful, but I would just set up the machine (firewall, anti-virus, etc) and leave it.

The Dreamweaver issue will be a problem for me. I do some hand coding as well, but I usuallt start off doing basic layout/design in Photoshop/Dreamweaver.

The way I see it, every switch of OS would require time and effort. I would be willing to do this if I could gain something when it comes to speed/power - if not, I'm sticking with MS.

Oh, and I need my new machine to be portable. I will need to take it with me to classes, clients, etc. Wouldn't mind a dual G5, though

 

[alisajid]

IMO, no real point to get a Powerbook if you don't care for the OS. Macs give you real plug'n'play and a more secure (generally) platform to work on. I'm not a Photoshop user, so I can't comment on application specific performance, but to me performance for general things such as web browsing is a little more sluggish than on Windows or Linux running on Centrino laptops. As far as basic laptop features go, battery life on Powerbooks leaves much to be desired (~3hrs), they don't come with a 7200RPM HDD option, the display resolution is low, and there's only on mouse button.

So why are people like me using Powerbooks: OS X + the Powerbook is physically a work of art.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: NeoArtis
Hi,

sorry if you're sick and tired of having to answer questions like these... I've currently got a desktop that's got to go (P4-1,6GHz). It has served me well, but I'm moving and the computer stays with my mum. Basically she's agreed to "adopt" it, and give me $1,500 to get a new laptop (hi mum - love you).

Now, I'm no real gamer, I mainly use my computer for web design: photoshop, illustrator, some dreamweaver. I'm also a semiprofessional photgrapher.

I've never really used a Mac, but everyone keeps telling me that they are excellent for my tasks. So I'm not sure if I should get one... I'm specifically thinking about a 15" Powerbook. But what is a girl to do?

My only doubts are: will I get more bangs for my bucks if I go Intel/Windows? I've tried asking this question at different Mac forums, but the only response I get is:

1) OS X "ruuuuulez"
2) Why the f**k are you asking this on a Mac forum?
3) My three year old Powerbook is "fast enough" (whatever that means?)
4) Macs look better than a Windows laptop

My response to this is:
1) I don't really care about the OS. I've been using XP for the last couple of years, and it's never acted up on me
2) Sorry, won't happen again
3) I'm not looking for a laptop that's "fast enough", I'm working on large images in photoshop, lots of filters - so a computer can never be fast enough for that kind of work
4) I agree, but I'll take performance over design any day of the week when it comes to computers

Since battery life is somewhat important, my alternative is to get a Windows/Intel machine with a P-M CPU.

A friend of mine recommended Anandtech as the place to ask these questions, so I'm giving it a shot.

Thank you for your time!

NeoA

If performance is your main criteria in your choice of a computer, I recommend that you get another desktop system. Yes a notebook is portable but it can not compete, terms of performance, with a desktop at the same price. Also a desktop is all around easier to use.

 

[dcdomain]

The only reason I ever wanted a Powerbook was because it was actually cheaper than a similar Thinkpad I built online. The Powerbook also had a wide screen, and a better video card. If I could get WinXP on a Powerbook, I'd buy one.

However I was able to jump on a group buy on a Thinkpad so I stuck with PC's. I do wish IBM would consider the wide screens though. Other than that, aside from aesthetics, OSX doesn't do very much for me...

 

[sdaccord01]

I went from a 12" powerbook, to an IBM T41 to an HP zt3000 in a span of 3-4 months. Reason why I wasn't happy with the 12" powerbook is that it seemed to get really hot and since I'm an EE major, a windows laptop would be more useful for me. Don't get me wrong, apples are really great, and I was even considering going to get a 15" widescreen one as well and use Virtual PC, but I think unless I switched out of the EE path, I probably would have to get a pc laptop unless I use an apple for a 2nd laptop.

So I switched to an IBM T41, which everybody seems to like around here, so I tried it out, but for some reason, my IBM's palm rest got really squeaky, and the build quality wasn't all that. Besides, a lot of the laptops nowadays are made in china anyways, so I don't think IBM's are all that. I ended up ebaying the T41 and getting a zt3000 with a beautiful 1920 x 1200 display which is simply amazing. I stuck a 60gig 7200rpm hard drive in it and the performance has been fabulous. Granted it only has a radeon 9200 card, but I cared for the screen more than getting a gateway m505x with a radeon 9600. I've been happy with the HP zt3000 for 2-3 months now, and since i got it when there was a $100 rebate, 5% academic discount and 10% discount that all stacked together, I couldn't be any more happier. Reliability has been great, centrino works well, and I love the bluetooth when using a bluetooth mouse. Simply great!

 

[addragyn]

Thank you for your reply. The reason for leaving OS X out of the equation is that I don't plan to spend my time in the OS. I know there are functions that are useful, but I would just set up the machine (firewall, anti-virus, etc) and leave it.

I wish there was a consumer OS out there that worked that well. But as far as "set it and forget it" OS X definitely has a leg up.

The Dreamweaver issue will be a problem for me. I do some hand coding as well, but I usuallt start off doing basic layout/design in Photoshop/Dreamweaver.

Try *the latest updated* Dreamweaver on a Mac. And give the Freeway demo a try. Good feedback.

The way I see it, every switch of OS would require time and effort. I would be willing to do this if I could gain something when it comes to speed/power - if not, I'm sticking with MS.

What can I say - change requires adaptation. You will likely have an easier time in the industry if you use a Mac. It's just the way it is.

Again if you want speed and power you get a desktop. Since that seems to be out the window look at the other things.

Things like Cinema Displays being SWOP certified, ColorSync in OS X, Font Book and having a complete LAMP setup on your locahost should be catching your eye.


The best Mac forum is the
Macintoshian Achaia @ Ars Technica. You'll get none of the nonsense answers there you found at the other Mac forums. I've don't use any Macromedia software so you'll definitely get a more conclusive answer to that question. I encourage you to drop your same post over there.

 

[manko]

Originally posted by: addragyn
You will likely have an easier time in the industry if you use a Mac. It's just the way it is.

Yeah, as I said, there is an unwarranted bias against Windows machines in some circles of the creative industry where Macs are entrenched. This is something to consider, if it could be an issue for your clients or collaborators.