Any of you sign on to a new job recently? Did you have to sign a lot of paperwork forcing you to give up some privacy and freedom?

[shortylickens]

I wont say who's making me do it but the new contracting company wants me to abide a great many rules many of which seem to take away some personal freedoms. If I screw up they can fine me for 320 hours worth of salary and fire me and also reserve the right to sue me for more money. I know the standard excuse is "protecting their interests" but for those of you not paying attention it seems in the 21st century companies protecting their interests are really abusing the average employee. And if there was nothing wrong with it then I think the company should send out these documents with their very first correspondence to potential hires. But they dont because they know the requirements would scare most sane people.

Is this normal in todays job market? Cuz I dont like it.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Probably. I'm at the point where I don't read much after the offer letter.

I would think you would have to do something royally fucked up (e.g. stealing from the company) for them to ever do anything drastic like those. Most companies will just fire you to avoid negative press from a given situation.

 

[pete6032]

What rules are you talking about in particular?

 

[LikeLinus]

I wont say who's making me do it but the new contracting company wants me to abide a great many rules many of which seem to take away some personal freedoms. If I screw up they can fine me for 320 hours worth of salary and fire me and also reserve the right to sue me for more money. I know the standard excuse is "protecting their interests" but for those of you not paying attention it seems in the 21st century companies protecting their interests are really abusing the average employee. And if there was nothing wrong with it then I think the company should send out these documents with their very first correspondence to potential hires. But they dont because they know the requirements would scare most sane people.

Is this normal in todays job market? Cuz I dont like it.

If you could be more vague, that'd be great. What "personal freedoms" are they taking away from you?

 

[Greenman]

I wont say who's making me do it but the new contracting company wants me to abide a great many rules many of which seem to take away some personal freedoms. If I screw up they can fine me for 320 hours worth of salary and fire me and also reserve the right to sue me for more money. I know the standard excuse is "protecting their interests" but for those of you not paying attention it seems in the 21st century companies protecting their interests are really abusing the average employee. And if there was nothing wrong with it then I think the company should send out these documents with their very first correspondence to potential hires. But they dont because they know the requirements would scare most sane people.

Is this normal in todays job market? Cuz I dont like it.

I don't believe an employer can fine you by withholding salary. They can of course fire you, and I assume any employer could sue an employee.

 

[shortylickens]

What rules are you talking about in particular?

Its a lot of stuff not just one particular. And since I haven't been officially accepted I dont know if I wanna share specific examples yet, or ever. It may come back to bite me in the buns.

I think I may have to bite the bullet, have a lawyer look it all over, and explain to me how I could be ass fucked if I do something wrong.

 

[shortylickens]

Oh, what the hell.







Thats just one example of the many things that seems restrictive and weird and potentially unpleasant.
Theres more. I'm not gonna copy every little thing in the multitude of documents they sent me. Its too much.

 

[pete6032]

Oh, what the hell.



View attachment 37342



Thats just one example of the many things that seems restrictive and weird and potentially unpleasant.
Theres more. I'm not gonna copy every little thing in the multitude of documents they sent me. Its too much.

They're basically saying if you stop working as a temp for that company, you agree not to work for that company in that role for six months. That's pretty standard. They are having you agree to that so you don't just quit at Aerotek and then get hired on directly by the company and cut Aerotek out as the middle man.

Also generally speaking if this is an entry level hourly job, nobody is going to come at you to try and enforce a noncompete agreement. It would be extremely costly to Aerotek to enforce that provision in your contract.

 

[LikeLinus]

I hope to god they don't hire you. You're too stupid enough to realize that's a non-compete statement and they don't want you poaching clients.

Has nothing to do with personal freedom. Seriously, have you ever had a job before?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Oh, what the hell.



View attachment 37342



Thats just one example of the many things that seems restrictive and weird and potentially unpleasant.
Theres more. I'm not gonna copy every little thing in the multitude of documents they sent me. Its too much.

nevermind, pete got it.

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Oh, what the hell.



View attachment 37342



Thats just one example of the many things that seems restrictive and weird and potentially unpleasant.
Theres more. I'm not gonna copy every little thing in the multitude of documents they sent me. Its too much.

That is standard "non-compete" clause. Assuming that the contract gig you may be hired for, the "client"; where you will actually work was happy with you in that position, they may want to hire you directly, instead of paying your contract company. What typically happens in that case is that the "client" would pay a finders fee to your contract company to let you out of said clause.

I have worked many years ago as a contractor in IT, and the client hired me directly after working at their place of business as it was cheaper to pay me than what the contract company was being paid (the middleman). The client paid a finders fee to my former "agency", and everything was fine. I was much happier to be a direct employee of the former client, as I got better benefits from being a direct employee, and even got a raise out of it. It ended up being one of my favorite jobs I ever had. Really nice boss, and great people to work with.

It is just the middleman covering their bases, but make no mistake, they are making money off of your labor if you are being subcontracted out to another company.

I suspect if you are taking contract work, it would be difficult to find any position that did not have something similar in effect.

 

[pete6032]

Yep Aerotek is probably getting 10-25% of your hourly rate as a fee for pairing your employer with you. If you do a good job and the employer wants you long-term the employer will usually make a move to hire you directly and pay temp agency the fee.

 

[RPD]

What did you think this actually meant?
....

 

[deadlyapp]

Generally, a lot of non-competes have been considered unenforceable, however when you are a contract employee working for a client, you absolutely can be pursued for lost income if you cut them out. Whether or not it's worth it to them to pursue you, it's hard to say, but the contract is pretty cut and dry and wouldn't be that challenging to get judgement on in a court of law.

The unenforceable ones are like the one at my currently company, which says I can't work in the same industry for a year after leaving or even being terminated. And I'm in sales, in a niche industry - it's literally impossible - but they want the option, just in case.

 

[Grey_Beard]

Oh, what the hell.



View attachment 37342



Thats just one example of the many things that seems restrictive and weird and potentially unpleasant.
Theres more. I'm not gonna copy every little thing in the multitude of documents they sent me. Its too much.

This is standard language. It is basically if the place you are working offers you and job and you accept, there is a fee. They are say it is fir 320 hours at the base rate. Very standard. This way the client cannot hire you, train you, and then abscond on the contract to hire at a lower rate than the agreed upon contracted rate. This happens more than you think.

 

[Grey_Beard]

It would be extremely costly to Aerotek to enforce that provision in your contract.

Actually it is not. This is their business. Happens all the time. Lawsuits are regularly filed over exactly this. They are a staffing company, so if they let one client do this, their business model is over.

 

[zinfamous]

Yes, and was very strange to me even though it's probably boiler plate stuff these days for anyone "corporate" or "corporate-adjacent" (which I might start calling myself?) because I've been so used to having "not a real job" for so many years now.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

That is standard "non-compete" clause. Assuming that the contract gig you may be hired for, the "client"; where you will actually work was happy with you in that position, they may want to hire you directly, instead of paying your contract company. What typically happens in that case is that the "client" would pay a finders fee to your contract company to let you out of said clause.

I have worked many years ago as a contractor in IT, and the client hired me directly after working at their place of business as it was cheaper to pay me than what the contract company was being paid (the middleman). The client paid a finders fee to my former "agency", and everything was fine. I was much happier to be a direct employee of the former client, as I got better benefits from being a direct employee, and even got a raise out of it. It ended up being one of my favorite jobs I ever had. Really nice boss, and great people to work with.

It is just the middleman covering their bases, but make no mistake, they are making money off of your labor if you are being subcontracted out to another company.

I suspect if you are taking contract work, it would be difficult to find any position that did not have something similar in effect.

Wonder how much a finders fee is... for... say... I dunno, a standard $60-80k job position?

 

[LikeLinus]

Wonder how much a finders fee is... for... say... I dunno, a standard $60-80k job position?

No clue, but this caught my eye.

How Do Recruiters Get Paid? - TheStreet

"For example, outside recruiters who place a $100,000 marketing executive at a firm earn 40% in commission for their agency for the placement. That earns $40,000 for the recruiting agency while the individual agency recruiter earns a percentage of the gross commission, which can be as high as 50% to 60% for quality individual recruiters. "

The reason I looked this up is that I had semi-friend contact me a long time ago and said she knew of an open position at a large company that is well respected. I wasn't looking for a job, but it was a terrific opportunity and I interviewed. After multiple interviews and discussions, I got the job and have been there over 10 years.

But I had NO idea if they place you in a 6 figure job that they earn up to 50% of what a single year pay is???

This was an external recruiter (agency) who helped place me into the job and was work, at their request, to find good candidates. I knew she made some money off it, but wow!!

I'm going to assume it's nothing near that for something like a temp agency, but still, I was surprised at that.

 

[rh71]

Back in ~2005 I remember my then-supervisor wouldn't provide his SSN to a new account that our company took on support for. We just gave it up like no big deal but he wouldn't and stood his ground. They gave him other work instead.

 

[LikeLinus]

Back in ~2005 I remember my then-supervisor wouldn't provide his SSN to a new account that our company took on support for. We just gave it up like no big deal but he wouldn't and stood his ground. They gave him other work instead.

Was the company a bank/financial institution, Government project or anything that really required it? I worked for a consulting firm in my previous life and I was never asked for such information. I wouldn't want to just provide that info without a really good reasons.

I love my wife, when places ask for her social, she flat out tells them no, it's not their business, lol. Obviously this is outside anything that is an absolute need. She's awesome like that though.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

No clue, but this caught my eye.

How Do Recruiters Get Paid? - TheStreet

"For example, outside recruiters who place a $100,000 marketing executive at a firm earn 40% in commission for their agency for the placement. That earns $40,000 for the recruiting agency while the individual agency recruiter earns a percentage of the gross commission, which can be as high as 50% to 60% for quality individual recruiters. "

The reason I looked this up is that I had semi-friend contact me a long time ago and said she knew of an open position at a large company that is well respected. I wasn't looking for a job, but it was a terrific opportunity and I interviewed. After multiple interviews and discussions, I got the job and have been there over 10 years.

But I had NO idea if they place you in a 6 figure job that they earn up to 50% of what a single year pay is???

This was an external recruiter (agency) who helped place me into the job and was work, at their request, to find good candidates. I knew she made some money off it, but wow!!

I'm going to assume it's nothing near that for something like a temp agency, but still, I was surprised at that.

Recruiters are definitely big game these days.

My current job was an outside recruiter - so just a lone guy at a recruitment firm that referred me to the job. He helped me every step of the way and would give me tips on what to say... Whenever I had an interview over the phone he would call me beforehand to make sure to talk to me about what to say, what this person is like - how I can relate to the interviewer, etc. It was pretty damn nice. Started with the recruiter LinkedIn messaging me.

My previous job was an inside recruiter - aka, worked for the company doing the hiring (LinkedIn - they messaged me)

 

[deadlyapp]

Recruiters are definitely big game these days.

My current job was an outside recruiter - so just a lone guy at a recruitment firm that referred me to the job. He helped me every step of the way and would give me tips on what to say... Whenever I had an interview over the phone he would call me beforehand to make sure to talk to me about what to say, what this person is like - how I can relate to the interviewer, etc. It was pretty damn nice. Started with the recruiter LinkedIn messaging me.

My previous job was an inside recruiter - aka, worked for the company doing the hiring (LinkedIn - they messaged me)

Recruiter fees aren't nearly that high as far as I can recall. I think the guy who recruited me got about 15% and I think I just paid 15% for an external recruiter to find me a guy for a role of mine.

Note that it's 15% of the annual salary that goes to the firm, and depending on the firm, the individual agent gets something like 50-60% of the 15%.

There's a reason why many recruiters just start their own agency - you can make a lot more than for all intents and purposes most recruiting agencies don't have a lot more clout than an individual person - just HR contacts within companies.

 

[Grey_Beard]

Recruiter fees aren't nearly that high as far as I can recall. I think the guy who recruited me got about 15% and I think I just paid 15% for an external recruiter to find me a guy for a role of mine.

Note that it's 15% of the annual salary that goes to the firm, and depending on the firm, the individual agent gets something like 50-60% of the 15%.

There's a reason why many recruiters just start their own agency - you can make a lot more than for all intents and purposes most recruiting agencies don't have a lot more clout than an individual person - just HR contacts within companies.

Quality recruiters charge more. I have used them on both sides, for me to find a role and to assist in filling certain roles. The fees were usually 30% to 40% of the annual salary. Given the total cost to replace a position is typically 100% of the salary based on the time to fill, internal staff reviewing applications and the internal resources to cover the role while it is open. Additionally most recruiters will negotiate that if the person leaves within a year (depends on the agreement, but a year is most common) they will recruit the replacement for free. I have found roles more quickly, as well as filled them more quickly given that most recruiters pre-screen those they are presenting and usually have a list of those who they are working with. The shorter time frame for the opening and the easier on-boarding is worth the fees for most organizations. For a Accounts Payable clerk it is not worth it, by for a C-suite or Director level position, it is well worth it. Recruiters have a skillset that most internal human resource staff do not.

 

[sdifox]

Are you allowed to buy vinegar?