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Any of you hippies protest at Wall Street?

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IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,933
2
81
I define "poor" as anyone who is in the low % of citizens who live below the poverty line -- the vast majority of which are inner-city residents in all major cities.

Young people who are in families that are above the poverty line are NOT poor.

The polls of protesters I've seen over the last few weeks indicate that most come from middle-class families. Inner-city poverty-stricken protesters are few and far between.

Kinda simple, really.
since most middle class have a shit ton of debt they are arguably poorer on paper than homeless people so that depiction isn't all that accurate.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
since most middle class have a shit ton of debt they are arguably poorer on paper than homeless people so that depiction isn't all that accurate.
I don't think that's the case. Most articles I've read said people are eliminating debt and saving like never before. It's only the worthless kids who put themselves in massive student loan debt by their own accord who seem to be bitching the loudest about having their debt forgiven.

And who is going to pay for them? Joe Tax payer.

When mommy and daddy all said the real world was a bitch and not fair, they weren't lying kiddos. Or maybe the problem is they didn't tell the truth and told them they will never fail and life will give them a happy face gold star ++.
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,933
2
81
I don't think that's the case. Most articles I've read said people are eliminating debt and saving like never before. It's only the worthless kids who put themselves in massive student loan debt by their own accord who seem to be bitching the loudest about having their debt forgiven.

And who is going to pay for them? Joe Tax payer.
lol ok can you point me to your articles because drudge report had a story about foreclosures and delinquencies being on the rise again.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
since most middle class have a shit ton of debt they are arguably poorer on paper than homeless people so that depiction isn't all that accurate.
"Poorer on paper"? Newsflash: they should have lived within (read: below) their means.

That said, the banks that made the bad loans are partly responsible (and some should be punished), as are the politicians that encouraged them to do so (again, some should be punished). However, that does not in any way excuse the extremely bad decisions made by the borrowers themselves.

It also does not make them measurably "poor." Their horrible decisions may ultimately land them below the poverty line; but, they're not there yet. Perhaps, instead of begging the Government (and taxpayers) to save them or fix their mistakes, they should be getting together to come up with legitimate creative ways to pay off their massive personal debts.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
lol ok can you point me to your articles because drudge report had a story about foreclosures and delinquencies being on the rise again.
Here's what google found me. I've been reading similar articles for a long time now since recession.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43609261/Recession_s_Legacy_Twice_as_Many_Americans_Saving

While Americans were divided sharply between savers and non-savers, the majority of Americans are now saving.

According to the poll, 49.8 percent of those surveyed said they are saving more today, while 44.9 percent said they were not. The rest said they didn't know.

Ever since the financial crisis, Americans have been getting their financial houses in order. Much of that revolved around paying off their credit cards or learning to live without them.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Here's a news flash for you: the vast majority of the "protesters" are not "poor."

And, more importantly, what is their "message," exactly?

Well, let's see, seems one of their first demands is to eliminate student loans.

So, I would say their message is "if the taxpayers will bailout the automakers and the banks, then they should bailout us, as well." Basically, they aren't any better than what they apparently are standing up against.
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,933
2
81
"Poorer on paper"? Newsflash: they should have lived within (read: below) their means.

That said, the banks that made the bad loans are partly responsible (and some should be punished), as are the politicians that encouraged them to do so (again, some should be punished). However, that does not in any way excuse the extremely bad decisions made by the borrowers themselves.

It also does not make them measurably "poor." Their horrible decisions may ultimately land them below the poverty line; but, they're not there yet. Perhaps, instead of begging the Government (and taxpayers) to save them or fix their mistakes, they should be getting together to come up with legitimate creative ways to pay off their massive personal debts.
I'm not arguing the ethics of how they got their or how to get out of it....but saying someone isn't poor because they haven't yet lost of everything(its a slow process) is shortsighted. if they are bankrupt on paper they are poor. If they have to live off credit cards to put food on the table they are poor.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
Oh I need his job. Get paid millions to be an insane partisan hack on the internet all day.

But then again, I'd be driven mad trying to keep commies hands off my millions...what a double edged sword.

I now understand his struggle.
The top 5% aren't making millions...
 

HybridSquirrel

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2005
6,161
2
81
I thought it was the 1% that were rich and that everyone is angry about?
from what ive seen so far...it is really people making less than 50,000 a year being mad at anyone making more than 150,000 a year, and then trying to say that anyone below the top 1% are in the same boat as them. which is erroneous to assume that people who aren't filthy rich are going to rally behind you against the filthy rich.


so basically, its some worthless hippies who have made bad decisions in their short little lives being mad at people who seized business opportunities to increase personal wealth. Welcome to America, have a nice day. They are mad because they want to work at starbucks and become millionaires before 30, but they can't because they are worthless.
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,933
2
81
from what ive seen so far...it is really people making less than 50,000 a year being mad at anyone making more than 150,000 a year, and then trying to say that anyone below the top 1% are in the same boat as them. which is erroneous to assume that people who aren't filthy rich are going to rally behind you against the filthy rich.


so basically, its some worthless hippies who have made bad decisions in their short little lives being mad at people who seized business opportunities to increase personal wealth. Welcome to America, have a nice day. They are mad because they want to work at starbucks and become millionaires before 30, but they can't because they are worthless.
you just chatting or you have any reference for these claims?
 

HybridSquirrel

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2005
6,161
2
81
you just chatting or you have any reference for these claims?
isn't it obvious? they assume EVERYONE under the 1% is with them. Is EVERYONE under the 1% with them? Nope.


their "1%" is actually anyone who is "rich"...someone making 150,000 a year isn't int he 1% yet is still considered the 1% by them. especially the twat danglers out in denver right now.
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,933
2
81
isn't it obvious? they assume EVERYONE under the 1% is with them. Is EVERYONE under the 1% with them? Nope.


their "1%" is actually anyone who is "rich"...someone making 150,000 a year isn't int he 1% yet is still considered the 1% by them. especially the twat danglers out in denver right now.
the charts I've seen in this thread and the other do not reflect that definition.
 

HybridSquirrel

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2005
6,161
2
81
the charts I've seen in this thread and the other do not reflect that definition.
Biased charts on a public forum carry actual weight now days? I'll go tell my professor in my masters program and start digging through ATOT archives for sources.

Seriously, show me something that shows that everyone in the "99%" is rallying with them against the "1%", and show me where there anger is actually targeted solely at the "1%" and not simply at "wealthy", because everything i've seen, heard, and witnessed personally has been targeted simply at "wealthy" individuals, and then they assume everyone in the "99%" is with them.

this the hippy equivalent of the tea-party.
 

HybridSquirrel

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2005
6,161
2
81
since most middle class have a shit ton of debt they are arguably poorer on paper than homeless people so that depiction isn't all that accurate.
debt = personal problem = not the 1%'s problem. Why don't they take a lesson from the millions of households that live without debt and become responsible spenders? $6 extra skinny low-fat whip soy caramel macchiato extra caramel add up after a while
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,933
2
81
debt = personal problem = not the 1%'s problem. Why don't they take a lesson from the millions of households that live without debt and become responsible spenders? $6 extra skinny low-fat whip soy caramel macchiato extra caramel add up after a while
why are you jumping into the fray here, this wasn't the topic we were discussing. There was never any commentary about "accountability" merely contesting the statement that middle class weren't poor when their are plenty of ppl classified as middle class that are very much poor.
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,933
2
81
Biased charts on a public forum carry actual weight now days? I'll go tell my professor in my masters program and start digging through ATOT archives for sources.

Seriously, show me something that shows that everyone in the "99%" is rallying with them against the "1%", and show me where there anger is actually targeted solely at the "1%" and not simply at "wealthy", because everything i've seen, heard, and witnessed personally has been targeted simply at "wealthy" individuals, and then they assume everyone in the "99%" is with them.

this the hippy equivalent of the tea-party.
your changing the topic yet again. Your right their are plenty of people(poor people) who have been thoroughly fucked by the 1% and are too dumb to realize it. Actually they were posting on a website spidey brought to our attention. They call themselves the 53% ......the "I work 80 hours a week and get paid for 40 and have absolutely nothing to show for it and I'm happy about it!!" crowd

and I'm sure their are some idiots that think 150k is rich(the 1%) but I do not think anyone with an ounce of sense can honestly say that's a majority of the occupy movements beliefs.
 
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Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,148
1
76
your changing the topic yet again. Your right their are plenty of people(poor people) who have been thoroughly fucked by the 1% and are too dumb to realize it. Actually they were posting on a website spidey brought to our attention. They call themselves the 53% ......the "I work 80 hours a week and get paid for 40 and have absolutely nothing to show for it and I'm happy about it!!" crowd

and I'm sure their are some idiots that think 150k is rich(the 1%) but I do not think anyone with an ounce of sense can honestly say that's a majority of the occupy movements beliefs.
It's the Japanese Way!

And they say we don't learn anything from our allies!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karōshi
 

Eos

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2000
3,451
2
81
If the government were to forgive student loan debt (that's a BIG if), would that affect inflation the same as the gov't simply sending checks to citizens?

Print check > send to citizen > it's spent within a week > all hell breaks loose

Disburse student loan > bulk of the money goes to the school > > seven years later, gov't forgives debt

Comprende?
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
why are you jumping into the fray here, this wasn't the topic we were discussing. There was never any commentary about "accountability" merely contesting the statement that middle class weren't poor when their are plenty of ppl classified as middle class that are very much poor.
Perhaps if they sell their smartphones, Coach purses, jewelry, flatscreens, $5500 MacBooks, and late-model SUVs, they could begin to put a huge chunk in their own debts?

The first thing they need to do is willingly give up EVERYTHING that got them into debt in the first place; and then start over.

I was against the corporate/banking bailouts from the beginning, just as I am 100% opposed to bailing out individuals. Two wrongs don't make a right... and it CERTAINLY won't fix our economy.
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,148
1
76
Perhaps if they sell their smartphones, Coach purses, jewelry, flatscreens, $5500 MacBooks, and late-model SUVs, they could begin to put a huge chunk in their own debts?
Who says:

1. That the one with the $5500 macbook is in debt?
2. That the cases you are siting are the majority of the movement and therefore can be used to define it?

The first thing they need to do is willingly give up EVERYTHING that got them into debt in the first place; and then start over.
That is pretty much what Bankruptcy is. Why is school debt considered untouchable?

You would think they would go about it as anything else. Sale of any viable material possession not needed for the life or livelihood of the individual (Sell the TV, but do not sell the car. You need to GET to work...). Then a payment plan for any debt that can reasonably be paid off.

Most bankruptcy does not end with all debt forgiven and forgotten. If there is a means for recovery, it is sought after and implemented.

But why is it different with school loans?

So let me get this strait. You can take an overvalued home loan and use that to pay for college, declare bankruptcy and have it forgiven, but a direct education loan no?

I was against the corporate/banking bailouts from the beginning, just as I am 100% opposed to bailing out individuals. Two wrongs don't make a right... and it CERTAINLY won't fix our economy.
The difference between BR and corporate bailouts is that we really did not hold the companies accountable. They are paying little, if any penalty for taking us all for a ride, and the people responsible are STILL receiving bonuses and payoffs with the reason being "Well, if we do not give them this $$, then we will lose the best workers out there that can get us out of this mess..."

Including the ones that got you INTO it in the first place?

Oh, no, for that you point at a bunch of mid-level peons and try to lay the blame on them.


Feh.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Who says:

1. That the one with the $5500 macbook is in debt?
2. That the cases you are siting are the majority of the movement and therefore can be used to define it?
I wasn't referring to "the movement." I was responding to claims that a large number of middle-class people are in "paper debt" that would qualify them as measurably poor. As stated above, the very first thing they need to do is get rid of every expensive material possession that got them into debt -- to include trading/selling their $35-$50k SUVs, and replacing them with 1995 Sentras (or equivalent).

They should also sell their boats, motorcycles, jetski's, and EVERY other item they couldn't afford in the first place!

Finally, they need to move back to an apartment instead of their McMansions. If that means they're upside down for twenty years, so f'n be it. Does it suck for them? Yes. Do they deserve it for their mistakes and irresponsible behavior? Again, yes.

Too bad, so fuckin sad.

That is pretty much what Bankruptcy is. Why is school debt considered untouchable?
I sincerely don't know.

You would think they would go about it as anything else. Sale of any viable material possession not needed for the life or livelihood of the individual (Sell the TV, but do not sell the car. You need to GET to work...). Then a payment plan for any debt that can reasonably be paid off.

Most bankruptcy does not end with all debt forgiven and forgotten. If there is a means for recovery, it is sought after and implemented.

But why is it different with school loans?
like I said, I don't know. However, as the OWS supporters keep pointing out, this isn't just about school loans, so why are you focusing on just that?

So let me get this strait. You can take an overvalued home loan and use that to pay for college, declare bankruptcy and have it forgiven, but a direct education loan no?
is this your only issue?

The difference between BR and corporate bailouts is that we really did not hold the companies accountable. They are paying little, if any penalty for taking us all for a ride, and the people responsible are STILL receiving bonuses and payoffs with the reason being "Well, if we do not give them this $$, then we will lose the best workers out there that can get us out of this mess..."

Including the ones that got you INTO it in the first place?

Oh, no, for that you point at a bunch of mid-level peons and try to lay the blame on them.

Feh.
I agree. Then again, I've been opposed to the bailouts -- ALL of them -- since day one.

I sincerely hope they start going after and fining anyone who has profited directly from the bailouts. I could actually support a large effort to do so... but, how would it work? Where do we even start for such an investigation?

I'd also support the firing of each and every lawmaker who voted YES for ANY of the bailouts! Get rid of every last one of them and bar them from government service... forever. That sounds great to me!

But, I hate to say it, many of the infamous 1% have money that had nothing to do with the bailouts. Many of those 1% earned their money legitimately. Why should those who had nothing to do with the bailouts be punished alongside the ones who profited from the bailouts directly? Just because they're rich too? That's not good enough, sorry...
 
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Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
If the government were to forgive student loan debt (that's a BIG if), would that affect inflation the same as the gov't simply sending checks to citizens?

Print check > send to citizen > it's spent within a week > all hell breaks loose

Disburse student loan > bulk of the money goes to the school > > seven years later, gov't forgives debt

Comprende?
And if that happened, there would be riots in D.C. from hard working taxpayers.
Like real riots not that fleabagger BS.
 

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