Any Med School that will take people without MCATS?

[magomago]

I'm just wondering if there are any as I'm interested to go Medschool. Even if it must be through a MDPhD program or some kind of post undergrad level degree I don't mind that as I would go for it. IF I do that though, I just want a PI who will let me go after I do the research they want I know some guys being there for 8 years and still haven't hit the endof the road simply b/c their PI milks them.

So is it possible? To go to Medschool without taking the MCATS?

 

[jacob0401]

um probably not...

 

[Gibsons]

I really doubt it, unless you go to another country.

 

[CarlKillerMiller]

I've got to ask why you want to avoid taking the MCATs. Do you not have the required experience in calculus and physics? What's your educational background, prior to applying? Do you have any experiences that would stand out on an application?

AFAIK, even osteopathic med schools require an MCAT.


EDIT:

Oh, missed the part of your post. Most MD-PhD programs still require the MCAT, and are highly competitive. From the sites I've looked at, you'll def. be needing over a 28. In addition, undergrad research is basically requied for admission, the more the better. At least 2 years' worth.

 

[Strk]

If you're willing to go through an MD/PhD program, what's the issue with the test?

 

[DAWeinG]

Don't think so. I believe all graduate schools in the US require some sort of standardized test.

 

[magomago]

CarlKillerMiller - I will next spring (2008 so I still have time) have degrees in Biomedical Engineering and Materials Science Engineering and I am pursuing a minor in Chinese since its so radically different in an intersting way. I'm in good academic standing (i'll PM you that - I don't like to post this stuff to the public). Math and physics are NOT an issue to me, and as we speak I have some homework on partial differential equations that I've been hacking I'm very solid with atleast mechanics.
I know a LOT of bio...but I don't have ANYTHING memorized. Typical example between me the BME and the Bio Major: They will learn all 20 amino acids and their bloody structures. I will just categorize them as 3 general groups with some special ones that have interesting behavior. A better example is my friend who was taking a class on phsyio I think had to learn of a lot of pathways by which action potentials work..but he needed to memorize it and just get an idea of what they look like on graphs. I on the other hand, just had to read it once and then we focused on what happens on a physical sense and how to model the action potential as a a simple circuit...stuff like that Instead of draw random stuff on a graphs, we will put units and write out ODEs that model it (interstingly for those who care to know...our electrical system is modeled PERFECTLY and follows a VERY specific pathway easily modeled by a simple circuit and equations...nothing else biologically is perfect when it comes to modeling)
As for as any CRAZY experiences...not realy. I'm VERY interesting in biomaterials - soft tissue characterization and design of synthetic compatibles materials. I do help with research on bone strength and how its affected by cancer...the group is essentially three parts- one is the pure bio and deals with the gathering of raw data, and the engineering do the modeling and testing and we have some statisticians run crazy stuff to determine correlations...

Main reason? TIME. I don't have time to go back and learn a lot of Ochem Mechanisms...and I don't have 300 hours or so. I'm taking a full load every quarter +Summer until I graduate (actually even after I officially grad in 08 I will need to finish off with 12 units in that summer) and it simply boils down to that.

That is why I said i'm fine with a MDPHD program --> I know I will pursue atleast a masters in probably materials science focusing on a biomedical project...

but for some personal reasons I do want to be a doctor...but its really that MCAT that gets in my way.

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: magomago
CarlKillerMiller - I will next spring (2008 so I still have time) have degrees in Biomedical Engineering and Materials Science Engineering and I am pursuing a minor in Chinese since its so radically different in an intersting way. I'm in good academic standing (i'll PM you that - I don't like to post this stuff to the public). Math and physics are NOT an issue to me, and as we speak I have some homework on partial differential equations that I've been hacking I'm very solid with atleast mechanics.
I know a LOT of bio...but I don't have ANYTHING memorized. Typical example between me the BME and the Bio Major: They will learn all 20 amino acids and their bloody structures. I will just categorize them as 3 general groups with some special ones that have interesting behavior. A better example is my friend who was taking a class on phsyio I think had to learn of a lot of pathways by which action potentials work..but he needed to memorize it and just get an idea of what they look like on graphs. I on the other hand, just had to read it once and then we focused on what happens on a physical sense and how to model the action potential as a a simple circuit...stuff like that Instead of draw random stuff on a graphs, we will put units and write out ODEs that model it (interstingly for those who care to know...our electrical system is modeled PERFECTLY and follows a VERY specific pathway easily modeled by a simple circuit and equations...nothing else biologically is perfect when it comes to modeling)
As for as any CRAZY experiences...not realy. I'm VERY interesting in biomaterials - soft tissue characterization and design of synthetic compatibles materials. I do help with research on bone strength and how its affected by cancer...the group is essentially three parts- one is the pure bio and deals with the gathering of raw data, and the engineering do the modeling and testing and we have some statisticians run crazy stuff to determine correlations...

Main reason? TIME. I don't have time to go back and learn a lot of Ochem Mechanisms...and I don't have 300 hours or so. I'm taking a full load every quarter +Summer until I graduate (actually even after I officially grad in 08 I will need to finish off with 12 units in that summer) and it simply boils down to that.

That is why I said i'm fine with a MDPHD program --> I know I will pursue atleast a masters in probably materials science focusing on a biomedical project...

but for some personal reasons I do want to be a doctor...but its really that MCAT that gets in my way.

Just take the dumb thing. If you do well on standardized tests and have a minimum of the necessary background, you'll probably do well enough on it.

 

[Ameesh]

becoing a doctor is a huge time commitment, 300 hours to get ready for the mcat is only a very small percentage pf the total time it will take to get you prepared to be a doctor. i dont understand your reasoning

 

[CarlKillerMiller]

Originally posted by: Ameesh
becoing a doctor is a huge time commitment, 300 hours to get ready for the mcat is only a very small percentage pf the total time it will take to get you prepared to be a doctor. i dont understand your reasoning

Yeah, I'm fairly well in agreement here. Without a good grip on biological systems (which, unfortunately, includes memorization), I don't know how well you'll do in med school. In addition, I really don't think that an MDPhD program that doesn't require the MCAT exists. Most are MCAT, UG GPA, and letters of rec (usually provided by laboratory fellows that you have worked under).


EDIT:

Something else which just occurred to me (duh) is that most med schools require certain classes, which can include (at most) a year of organic chemistry and a year of organic chemistry lab and a semester of each at a minimum.

 

[DAWeinG]

Why don't you just take a year off to study for them after you graduate? It's pretty common for people to do and might be a good choice because once you get into med school and become a doctor, you probably won't ever that have kind of freedom again.

Are you the Ammar that was my lab partner at UCI last quarter for that materials science lab and who also plays DOTA and has a friend named Calvin?

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Ameesh
becoing a doctor is a huge time commitment, 300 hours to get ready for the mcat is only a very small percentage pf the total time it will take to get you prepared to be a doctor. i dont understand your reasoning

I'm sick and tired of doctors and a lot of their bad judgement. It makes me mad how I hear of so many problems...atleast for myself and those around me I would want to change that....again this isn't the only reason, but I want to do that...
i'm also interested in researching in the medical inudstry while practicing...its a fulfilling thing ya know

Memorizing Biological systems isn't something I can't do...Its just not my focus on my degree I still have to be familiar with it, but I'm trained to an engineer first. Meh I guess options are limited and I have to look at a different field if I have to spend so much time on the MCAT.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

I hope not...

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Ameesh
becoing a doctor is a huge time commitment, 300 hours to get ready for the mcat is only a very small percentage pf the total time it will take to get you prepared to be a doctor. i dont understand your reasoning

I'm sick and tired of doctors and a lot of their bad judgement. It makes me mad how I hear of so many problems...atleast for myself and those around me I would want to change that....again this isn't the only reason, but I want to do that...
i'm also interested in researching in the medical inudstry while practicing...its a fulfilling thing ya know

Memorizing Biological systems isn't something I can't do...Its just not my focus on my degree I still have to be familiar with it, but I'm trained to an engineer first. Meh I guess options are limited and I have to look at a different field if I have to spend so much time on the MCAT.

Most people I know dont go to med school the fall immediately following graduation, since the med school admissions process is long and tedious. Most(of those I have known) dont get admitted to med school until the fall the following year.

 

[thesurge]

You should know/remember some orgo, right?

if you have all the physics, inorganic/organic chem, and english down... half of the biological sciences shouldn't be too much.

 

[Epic Fail]

Yet, you still find time for us, we are so touched.

 

[preslove]

When I worked at UF there was a student assistant who was in an accelerated BS program linked with the medschool. He will immediately enter med school when he finishes his honors BS without taking the MCAT. I'm pretty sure his gpa was somewhere close to a 4.0, though.

 

[magomago]

i have no formal o chem...I think that is my weak link. BME nor MSE requires OChem - BME mentioned it when we need it here and there, and in MSE we spend more time on polymer mechanics...what will happen if you toss a methyl group to a polymer, or chains get bigger, or mix two polymers, and the types of bonding and running them in DSCs and TGAs...

but no mechanisms at all.

Yeah I guess i'm not cut out I know I have all the ability to analyze and understand concepts very well...its just it takes so much more time and classes- just with what i have I'm going to graduate with 288 units =-=

 

[GoSharks]

Yeah, my brother is in the UCI BME program and I was suprised that they didnt have to take any OChem at all. I have found that it comes in pretty handy (first semester at least) when it comes to Biomaterials.

BTW, you may find this interesting - at least i did.
Unique features of action potential initiation in cortical neurons. Bjorn Naundorf1,2,3, Fred Wolf1,2,3 & Maxim Volgushev4,5
Basically they found that the HH model doesnt work for some neurons.

FWIW, JHU's BME PhD program's first year curriculum is actually exactly the med student curriculum. One of the BME PhD students (couple years in) on my lab floor is applying to the MD/PhD program right now. Still had to take MCATs if I remember correctly.

 

[Turnpike]

If you can't score well on the MCAT, you won't pass the USMLE's. No med school will ever take you, nuff said.

And if you can't memorize the simple info for the MCAT, who are you kidding? Do you have any idea what pharm, anatomy, histo, path, etc courses entail in shear amount of memorization?

 

[Babbles]

There are indeed a few programs that will take you immediately from a BS into the MD program and not require a MCAT. However you have to be accepted into the BS program from the start of college. I think Brown has one like that.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: magomago
i have no formal o chem...I think that is my weak link. BME nor MSE requires OChem - BME mentioned it when we need it here and there, and in MSE we spend more time on polymer mechanics...what will happen if you toss a methyl group to a polymer, or chains get bigger, or mix two polymers, and the types of bonding and running them in DSCs and TGAs...

but no mechanisms at all.

Yeah I guess i'm not cut out I know I have all the ability to analyze and understand concepts very well...its just it takes so much more time and classes- just with what i have I'm going to graduate with 288 units =-=

There are classes that are required for one to be admitted into most (read: almost all) med schools.

2 semesters of Biology
2 semesters of Physics
2 semesters of Chemistry
2 semesters of Organic Chemistry

Without 8 hrs of Organic Chemistry, the MCAT is the least of your worries.

Biochem, microbology, and anatmoy don't hurt either, but arent required.


If you really want to go to med school. First finish your degree. Then go to a Community College for a year and finish off your med school pre-reqs, while taking the MCAT and applying for Med School. You can apply to med school before completion of the med school pre-reqs, you just have to have them completed prior to enrollment.

You arent getting around taking O-Chem or the MCAT.

 

[RollWave]

Originally posted by: Turnpike
If you can't score well on the MCAT, you won't pass the USMLE's. No med school will ever take you, nuff said.

And if you can't memorize the simple info for the MCAT, who are you kidding? Do you have any idea what pharm, anatomy, histo, path, etc courses entail in shear amount of memorization?

Amen to that. I'm in a Pharm masters program and part of it requires me to take Pharm with the med students. If you cant handle buckling down and taking the MCATs I doubt you will have an easy time in med school.

 

[dr150]

University of Afghanistan
University of Haiti

FTW