Question Any laptop screen at 25hz interlaced?

[nickmania]

Hi, I know this could sound rare for some of you, bur for the healthy of my eyes I have found that is better to use screens that makes some flick instead of the current high refresh rates. This makes your eyes less acomodating to the screen and the effect when eyes have difficult to focus in normal life is atenuated. This is created by the continuos work the eye muscles need to do to adapt the flickering, is like a bodybuilding for the eyes, and in some cases, can help for this eye problems. I am using a proyector and a monitor at 25hz interlaced at home, but every laptop I try cannot reach this low resolution levels. Did you know a laptop screen that can make this low resolution and do not have any type of flick free technology?

Thank you.

 

[VirtualLarry]

bur for the healthy of my eyes I have found that is better to use screens that makes some flick instead of the current high refresh rates.

No offense, but that's crazy-talk. Get some "computer glasses", perferably with anti-blue-light and anti-glare.

 

[VirtualLarry]

This is created by the continuos work the eye muscles need to do to adapt the flickering,

...causing eye-strain. Seriously, have you thought this through at all? You need to speak with an optometrist that specializes in PC usage.

 

[nickmania]

Yes I have thought about it and be sure that I know what I am talking about, is a research of several years, is not something that comes to my mind last night. I understand that for you this is crazy but it really works if your problems are related to the acommodating muscle eyes, is not a problem that can be solved with glasses, because is not a problem caused by the "lens" of your eyes, is a muscle thing.

So, do you know any laptop screen that can do this flickering at 25hz interlaced? I have not luck findind one, they are all capped at 60hz progressive.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I understand that for you this is crazy but it really works if your problems are related to the acommodating muscle eyes

Go take walks. Either in the woods, or in the city. Focus on things both close-up, and far away, if you can. Give you eyes some proper exercise, rather than subject them to MORE strain. "Flicker" does not exercise the eyes, as far as I know. Again, talk to a professional. It seems you have come up with your own anecdotal theory about all of this, that in my mind, doesn't match with any science that I know of.

Oh, and get more beta carotene. And plenty of rest, both at night, and in terms of "screen breaks". There was a reason the Nintendo Game Pak manuals always said on the back side to take a break every 2-3 hours.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Oh, and throughout my teenage PC-using years, I had a horrible 14" CRT, that I ran @ 1024x768 interlaced, just because I was a programmer, and I needed the screen real-estate. The resultant flicker, and poor display quality, DEGRADED my eyesight. It didn't help to "build my eye muscles".

So, anecdotally, I think that you are clearly wrong on this subject.

 

[nickmania]

Go take walks. Either in the woods, or in the city. Focus on things both close-up, and far away, if you can. Give you eyes some proper exercise, rather than subject them to MORE strain. "Flicker" does not exercise the eyes, as far as I know. Again, talk to a professional. It seems you have come up with your own anecdotal theory about all of this, that in my mind, doesn't match with any science that I know of.

I do not think you could sustain a debate of "eye science" with me honestly, I have talked with a lot of professionals and done everything you can imagine, and the thing that works is this one I am talking about. I understand that for you this is crazy, but if you know any laptop that can do 25hz interlaced would be nice to know.

If you are interested in the rationale of this theory I could explain it to you, but please do not infer that you are more inteligent than me or you know this problem solution with any research about that.

 

[VirtualLarry]

If you really want to try setting your display to interlaced, look up your display control panel, Intel, NVidia, or AMD. There might be a setting there to enable it, if it is actually supported by the panel.

 

[nickmania]

Oh, and throughout my teenage PC-using years, I had a horrible 14" CRT, that I ran @ 1024x768 interlaced, just because I was a programmer, and I needed the screen real-estate. The resultant flicker, and poor display quality, DEGRADED my eyesight. It didn't help to "build my eye muscles".

So, anecdotally, I think that you are clearly wrong on this subject.

yes is possible, not every people have the same eye problems. Mine is the opossite, I have been using years CRT and old TVs and never have an eye focus problem until the arrives of LCD and phones. And no, is not an age thing, is based in how the LCD works and the lack of flickering that makes eye muscles acomodate to it, speacially in low light environments. But I understand that your problems was not the same as mine so probably this solution does not works for you.

 

[nickmania]

If you really want to try setting your display to interlaced, look up your display control panel, Intel, NVidia, or AMD. There might be a setting there to enable it, if it is actually supported by the panel.

Yes I have tried that also, and in some only goes down to 50hz. But this is a good point, thank you, but as you said , if the panel do not support it is nor possible. Thank you.

 

[VirtualLarry]

If you are interested in the rationale of this theory I could explain it to you, but please do not infer that you are more inteligent than me or you know this problem solution with any research about that.

As far as I can see, you don't have any "real" research into this, other than anecdotally. My anecdotal, personal, experience, suggests that your theory is crack-pot.

I'm not claiming that I'm more intellegent than you, in any way. I have NO opthamalogist credentials, no medical credentials whatsoever.

But I've NEVER read, heard, or seen suggested, that "flicker", could be a net positive for eyesight, when using PC monitors.

If it were, or if there was ANY research at all, suggesting that flicker was "healthy", you can BET that monitor maker's marketing material, and monitor features, would TOUT that.

Since I've seen a lot of monitors, and MOST of them tout "ANTI-flicker" features, I find you claims dubious. EXTREMELY dubious.

I'll bow out at this point. GL! Hope that you don't burn out your eyes.

 

[mikeymikec]

25Hz is approximately the frequency of pre-LCD TVs. Maybe a truly ancient laptop GPU could supply the wide range of output frequencies you're looking for, but TBH looking for that kind of flexibility from laptop hardware IMO is like looking for a diamond in the rough to say the least.

I'd be curious to know what condition you've been diagnosed with that would cause such a strange requirement. I'm a bit surprised to say the least that any professional has suggested you look for such hardware rather than looking for adaptive equipment to help you use modern computer hardware.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Or are you referring to a feature called "Black Frame Insertion", that is found on some HIGH refresh-rate displays (not LOW, like you seem to want). That can improve certain aspects of visual acuity, related to movement, and anti-ghosting on LCDs.

You could try to find a "gaming laptop" that has a HIGH refresh rate display, with BFI. That might be what you're looking for.

 

[VirtualLarry]

yes is possible, not every people have the same eye problems. Mine is the opossite, I have been using years CRT and old TVs and never have an eye focus problem until the arrives of LCD and phones. And no, is not an age thing, is based in how the LCD works and the lack of flickering that makes eye muscles acomodate to it, speacially in low light environments. But I understand that your problems was not the same as mine so probably this solution does not works for you.

Honestly, that sounds like a problem with LCD back-light brightness (and also Blue Light), in terms of overall light received over time by the eye, with an LCD it's greater, because a CRT display is actually "off" half of the time (inter-frame delay), whereas an LCD display is more-or-less "continuous light".

Setting the brightness and contrast appropriately on your LCD display, and getting computer glasses with tint, blue-light-reduction, and glare-reduction, may help.

Edit: In low-light environments, the brightness of an LCD screen glowing in blackness, can be extremely strenuous on the eyes. Consider ambient back-lighting, and using "Nighttime" programs (Windows 10 has a feature built-in, to adjust the color temp at night-time, for less eye strain and easier viewing.)

 

[VirtualLarry]

I know that I said I was going to bow out, but one last thing. Different LCD panel types, have different aspects to them. Have you actually sat down with, say, a TN, IPS, VA, MVA, PVA, E-IPS, etc., display, and compared how they looked to you (after proper adjustment of the brightness)?

And I suggest not using your laptop screen in darkness, try to have some ambient light going on in the room.

 

[nickmania]

Or are you referring to a feature called "Black Frame Insertion", that is found on some HIGH refresh-rate displays (not LOW, like you seem to want). That can improve certain aspects of visual acuity, related to movement, and anti-ghosting on LCDs.

You could try to find a "gaming laptop" that has a HIGH refresh rate display, with BFI. That might be what you're looking for.

Yes I learn about this few weeks ago, the problem is that my laptops are not that new, also my pc monitor is old, but I have think about if. If some of you have some of this laptops or new monitors with this features and would like to give a try for me would be very apreciated. The effect I am talking about is similar to this one in the video

IMG_4440.MOV

MOV File

1drv.ms

Also my concern is that this new monitors could have some type of antiflickering feature that prevent them to display like this one

 

[nickmania]

As far as I can see, you don't have any "real" research into this, other than anecdotally. My anecdotal, personal, experience, suggests that your theory is crack-pot.

I'm not claiming that I'm more intellegent than you, in any way. I have NO opthamalogist credentials, no medical credentials whatsoever.

But I've NEVER read, heard, or seen suggested, that "flicker", could be a net positive for eyesight, when using PC monitors.

If it were, or if there was ANY research at all, suggesting that flicker was "healthy", you can BET that monitor maker's marketing material, and monitor features, would TOUT that.

Since I've seen a lot of monitors, and MOST of them tout "ANTI-flicker" features, I find you claims dubious. EXTREMELY dubious.

I'll bow out at this point. GL! Hope that you don't burn out your eyes.

I would comment the problem I am trying to solve with a more extense reply today so I could explain better what I am talking about. I really apreciate your help and I think is fair for me to explain the issue with you. Just give me a few time and last hour today or tomorrow would reply here with a more comprensive explanation on the subject.

Thank you for your help.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Image Flicker Of TVs: Black Frame Insertion

Image flicker is when each frame is only displayed for a short time, with black frames inserted between. Flickering the image displayed on a TV influences how clear movement appears to be when tracked across the screen.

www.rtings.com

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/game-ready-drivers/13/343225/optional-black-frame-insertion-settings-to-reduce-/

 

[VirtualLarry]

I would comment the problem I am trying to solve with a more extense reply today so I could explain better what I am talking about. I really apreciate your help and I think is fair for me to explain the issue with you. Just give me a few time and last hour today or tomorrow would reply here with a more comprensive explanation on the subject.

Thank you for your help.

If you would like to spend the time explaining your theory, I would be interested in reading. It may or may not change my personal viewpoint about it, but it sounds interesting.

BFI is mostly for blur-busting, helping visual acuity during motion, not so much to "exercise the eyes". (I still believe that a nice walk in the woods, and looking at things near and far, is FAR more helpful for eye exercise than a screen with flicker.)

If you post it, I'll give it a read.

 

[VirtualLarry]

One last, last thing: What kind of lighting do you use? Florescents and LEDs have their own "flicker", that may be imperceptible on it's own, but when combined with a screen with flicker, can form a "beat frequency", that is visible to the eye, and can cause various effects on perception.

 

[Dranoche]

A TFT display can't display an interlaced signal. Sending one to it would result in de-interlacing of the signal to produce the necessary progressive scan output, assuming it can even accept the signal in the first place. A modern laptop is unlikely to have any way of accepting an interlaced video signal, it can't generate it internally, and it doesn't matter either way because it can't display it.

Also, if a modern display is causing obvious eye strain and you've already addressed the obvious issues like ambient lighting and taking breaks, it's probably pulse width modulation on the backlight causing the issue.

 

[mikeymikec]

A TFT display can't display an interlaced signal.

My dad's old LCD TV can't do 1080p but can do 1080i according to the specs.

---

Though I think talking about refresh/scan/interlace between CRT and LCD is comparing apples to oranges. Case in point:

Admittedly I'm guessing that a 25Hz projector is refreshing content in more or less the same way as a CRT would do it.

 

[Dranoche]

My dad's old LCD TV can't do 1080p but can do 1080i according to the specs.

Sounds like an early HDTV, though the display panel itself is still progressive scan. It's probably a 768p screen physically. It's able to accept a 1080i signal though it has to first de-interlace then downscale to 720p to actually display it. It was fairly common for early HDTV's to accept a 1080i signal but not a 1080p signal because it was functionally only a 720p screen. A full 1080p signal wasn't really a thing for consumers until the launch of HD-DVD and Blu-ray in 2006, and it still took TV's a few years to catch up, so some couldn't even accept the signal.

OP has misinterpreted something. LCD or CRT, extended focus on a monitor builds tension in your eye muscles, and you end up blinking a lot less as well. Looking at a CRT with obvious flicker isn't going to help relieve that tension.

 

[TheELF]

Also my concern is that this new monitors could have some type of antiflickering feature that prevent them to display like this one

Any sort of panel is physically incapable of having this effect because they light up all the pixels of the screen at the same time.

Interlacing is only possible on CRT because there a single beam is scanning through the screen and with interlacing the beam scans only half the screen at one time and the other half at a slightly different time.

 

[dovez]

It is possible. But I think ever since Windows 8, they removed it from the list of modes. Windows 7 is your best bet, I suspect. It also disappears with some versions of the graphic card's driver. Older drivers are better, in my experience. So I think you'd need Windows 7 and to try out various versions of the driver to hopefully see it in that list.

Btw, if LCDs are causing discomfort in the eyes, it's most likely due to PWM. I advise to try a "Flicker-free" monitor. I have the BenQ EW2775zh and it really is more comfortable to look at and has no PWM. CRTs and projectors may seem better to you because they flicker with lower frequencies. PWM usually operates at higher frequencies. Most LCD monitors do have a flashing/flickering backlight due to PWM. I advise you to look into this.