I can't recommend using a knife for defensive purposes. If you take on ten guys with a knife you might cut a couple of them before they take it away from you and leave it in your neck. Bad idea, seriously.
- Oct 10, 2006
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They were surrounded with their backs to the wall, on the 2nd floor landing in the stairwell of a 3 story building. Our rooms are all on the 2nd floor. I moved in on the stairway entrance to hold it open while they ran back into the hall and the shut the door. Since that was their only exit, and the door is thick and opens inward, that would leave me and the other guy with 2-3 guys to take while they ran and then slammed ourselves against the door. I spoke to them afterworld and confirmed that that was the rough idea. Obviously it would've been suicidal to take on 10 guys even with a bottleneck.
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Um, I seriously doubt any of them had guns. They were just a bunch of drunk frat guys for the most part. Read my posts. I would only draw if they attacked first. So would the other guy. It's obviously a worse case scenario option, but if it's all that's available...
As for landing in jail, I would have 3 witnesses to testify it was self defense, and the guys stalkerish track record.
bob4432
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2003
- 11,727
- 46
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Originally posted by: irishScott
Originally posted by: bob4432
you need to get some of the big ass cans of pepper spray like leo have, the ones that are like a little fire extinguisher. bringing in a knife means somebody is going to get stabbed and somebody is going to jail, possibly for life
so what was the video tape of that you would die for? would like some screen shots
Whose dying for a tape? I was just noticing that 10 half-drunk frat guys had surrounded 2 girls and another guy. What was I supposed to do? My RA wasn't there, but at the same time their wasn't any signs of threat at that point that would merit my calling the cops. They were actually laughing, and most of them were level headed. Only 3 of them looked like they wanted to fight. Hell, only 3 of them looked like they COULD fight. I row for .5 hours to 1 hours 6 days a week. I'm not saying I could take all of them, and I wasn't intending to fight, but if they warned they might come back and I want to be prepared if a fight does happen.
you when somebody takes your knife and stabs you with it. what was about the tape you brought up in your op? do you even know the 2 girls, or was it the possiblilty of some tang that brought you to the rescue since they were just laughing and having a good time? if they were all so level headed what is the problem? if that is the case then one of the frat guys would keep the other guys in check.
you are probably going to get your a$$ kicked by all of them since it seems like you are escalating a situation, or at least that is how a jur will see it...how did they "look like they wanted to fight"? the problem is you are livng too much in if land. laws are laws and there is no since getting a record and expelled for having certain objects. you say your school says you can have a 6" knife, that probably means like a kitchen knife. you bring an aggressive knife the situation changes.
bob4432
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2003
- 11,727
- 46
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under estimating what they have is a big problem. if they look "thug" they probably have a gun to earn more "street credit" and would be more willing to use it on a guy that has a knife
self defense - you go to an area where you know there is a fight and you stab somebody - this looks like you were looking for trouble very quickly to a jury and a da that has a kid with a punctured lung or worse....
self defense would be that you were in your dorm room and people kicked in the door and started kicking your a$$, you were afraid for your life and then you stabbed somebody - that is self defense.
Googer
Lifer
- Nov 11, 2004
- 12,576
- 7
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They give the Auto Stryker to certain special forces:
http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_detail.aspx?model=9100
- Oct 10, 2006
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Originally posted by: bob4432
Originally posted by: irishScott
Originally posted by: bob4432
you need to get some of the big ass cans of pepper spray like leo have, the ones that are like a little fire extinguisher. bringing in a knife means somebody is going to get stabbed and somebody is going to jail, possibly for life
so what was the video tape of that you would die for? would like some screen shots
Whose dying for a tape? I was just noticing that 10 half-drunk frat guys had surrounded 2 girls and another guy. What was I supposed to do? My RA wasn't there, but at the same time their wasn't any signs of threat at that point that would merit my calling the cops. They were actually laughing, and most of them were level headed. Only 3 of them looked like they wanted to fight. Hell, only 3 of them looked like they COULD fight. I row for .5 hours to 1 hours 6 days a week. I'm not saying I could take all of them, and I wasn't intending to fight, but if they warned they might come back and I want to be prepared if a fight does happen.
you when somebody takes your knife and stabs you with it. what was about the tape you brought up in your op? do you even know the 2 girls, or was it the possiblilty of some tang that brought you to the rescue since they were just laughing and having a good time? if they were all so level headed what is the problem? if that is the case then one of the frat guys would keep the other guys in check.
you are probably going to get your a$$ kicked by all of them since it seems like you are escalating a situation, or at least that is how a jur will see it...how did they "look like they wanted to fight"? the problem is you are livng too much in if land. laws are laws and there is no since getting a record and expelled for having certain objects. you say your school says you can have a 6" knife, that probably means like a kitchen knife. you bring an aggressive knife the situation changes.
Apparently the 2 girls were at a party, and some OTHER girls were making an amateur girls gone wild video. The guy who shot the video at the time was drunk, and he wanted them to flash him. Obviously they didn't, but because they were on the video tape and the guy said he was going to sell it, they stole the tape (stupid on their part). The guys came back demanding the tape , but the girls had given it to their friend in another building. They didn't reveal the identities of their friends so the guys wouldn't stalk them.
As for the girls, I've known them each for a semester. One is in the room next to me, and the other is a few rooms down across the hall. They're smart, intelligent people.
As for the frat guys, 7 of them looked perfectly cool, but the other 3 were staring me and the other guy up and down, one glared at me, and then he looked at me and said "haha I bet this guy's seen the tape, he looks interested, he came down here from several rooms down man." I denied having seen the tape (which is true) and mentioned that I was interested because all 10 of them had mooned everyone on the hall (they pulled won their pants and ran shouting the girls' names). I had been silent in the doorway, listening, being careful NOT to have a hostile expression on my face. They laughed, but the guy just glared at me. Hatefully. Like I'd just pissed in his face. He also crossed his arms. 2 of the other guy were acting similarly.
FYI: I WAS NOT LOOKING FOR A FIGHT. THAT WAS THE LAST THING I WANTED!!! I WAS JUST GOING TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING WAS OKAY.
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Self defense would be that I was attacked first before my response. If one of them had come at me, I would've taken him down. Read my last few posts for more details. I was being careful not to look hostile. I DID NOT WANT A FIGHT.
thecoolnessrune
Diamond Member
- Jun 8, 2005
- 9,673
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I'd much rather carry a gun than a knife.. Ill save the knife for for very close quarters, or for places that dont allow a gun.
bob4432
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2003
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is it really self defense - you took yourself to a hostile situation, can you still claim self defense if you put yourself in harms way?
all i am saying is what your intentions are and how a jury would intrepret it could be very different. that is the problem. you say you didn't want to fight and i have no reason to think otherwise, but a da might say, "why did you go down there?"
there are so many circumstances you aren't thinking of and bringing in a weapon multiplies it exponentially. personally i would rather get my a$$ kicked then go to jail for stabbing somebody. i think you should notify the campus police now, make a report and start a history so if sh!t does goes down again the next time there is this "other" incident.
we can go round and round but you need to think about what a knife can cost you in reality, in a court of law or if the knife escalates a normal fight to somebody pulling a knife and then somebody pulling a gun.
i still think you would be better off with serious amounts of pepper spray, it is a defensive weapon for the most part and viewed as one by a lot more people than a knife would be. hell if you, the 2 girls and the other guy all have a can of pepper spray you will disable all 10 of them faster than jackie chan
- Oct 10, 2006
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Same here. I've actually considered getting a license, but I'm in university housing. Knives yes, guns HELL no. In theory I could keep them in my car if I had one (my RA keeps his in his jeep) but that wouldn't do me much good. Anyways, we were in a stairwell landing. Pretty close quarters.
- Oct 10, 2006
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Originally posted by: bob4432
you may think about self defense - you took yourself to a hostile situation, can you still claim self defense if you put yourself in harms way?
all i am saying is what your intentions are and how a jury would intrepret it could be very different. that is the problem. you say you didn't want to fight and i have no reason to think otherwise, but a da might say, "why did you go down there?"
there are so many circumstances you aren't thinking of and bringing in a weapon multiplies it exponentially. personally i would rather get my a$$ kicked then go to jail for stabbing somebody. i think you should notify the campus police now, make a report and start a history so if sh!t does goes down again the next time there is this "other" incident.
we can go round and round but you need to think about what a knife can cost you in reality, in a court of law or if the knife escalates a normal fight to somebody pulling a knife and then somebody pulling a gun.
i still think you would be better off with serious amounts of pepper spray, it is a defensive weapon for the most part and viewed as one by a lot more people than a knife would be. hell if you, the 2 girls and the other guy all have a can of pepper spray you will disable all 10 of them faster than jackie chan
Whatev. S'all good. I'll look into the pepper spray. Still, from what I hear, it's just as easy to spray yourself as it is the target. And I'd still like a knife so that I have a lethal weapon in a life-or-death situation. Still, my policy on fights is that if you want to settle something with me, fine, lets talk. If you try to settle it physically, I fight as dirty as I need to to win (as in disable). If you come at me with a weapon, I will do my best to kill you.
bob4432
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2003
- 11,727
- 46
- 91
Originally posted by: irishScott
Originally posted by: bob4432
you may think about self defense - you took yourself to a hostile situation, can you still claim self defense if you put yourself in harms way?
all i am saying is what your intentions are and how a jury would intrepret it could be very different. that is the problem. you say you didn't want to fight and i have no reason to think otherwise, but a da might say, "why did you go down there?"
there are so many circumstances you aren't thinking of and bringing in a weapon multiplies it exponentially. personally i would rather get my a$$ kicked then go to jail for stabbing somebody. i think you should notify the campus police now, make a report and start a history so if sh!t does goes down again the next time there is this "other" incident.
we can go round and round but you need to think about what a knife can cost you in reality, in a court of law or if the knife escalates a normal fight to somebody pulling a knife and then somebody pulling a gun.
i still think you would be better off with serious amounts of pepper spray, it is a defensive weapon for the most part and viewed as one by a lot more people than a knife would be. hell if you, the 2 girls and the other guy all have a can of pepper spray you will disable all 10 of them faster than jackie chan
Whatev. S'all good. I'll look into the pepper spray. Still, from what I hear, it's just as easy to spray yourself as it is the target. And I'd still like a knife so that I have a lethal weapon in a life-or-death situation. Still, my policy on fights is that if you want to settle something with me, fine, lets talk. If you try to settle it physically, I fight as dirty as I need to to win (as in disable). If you come at me with a weapon, I will do my best to kill you.
best of luck to you
Let me put it in another way for you, you punch me i punch you back, you pull out a knife, there is danger for my life and i have the right to exercise necessary force, iow, i'll spend 15 minutes with the coppers, your parents will spend 15 minutes at your grave.
- Oct 10, 2006
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Exactly, only I would be you in that scenario. Obviously the knife would only be drawn in a life-or-death scenario. I row for 45 min every day and know some H2H techniques. Unless I'm up against someone bigger than me (I'm 5'11" 170 lbs), I can take them down pretty easily. And even if their bigger, a kick to the groin does a lot.
:roll:
To your disclaimers. Grow up, kid. All it was was a bunch of teenage kids with angst going to college. You are included in this.
Don't get a knife if your first mentallity is to use it as a "defensive" weapon. Unless they had escalated the confrontation, there is no problem.
**EDIT**
BTW Knives are deadly weapons! Why use a deadly weapon as a "defensive" weapon. What ends up happening is it only escalates the issue.
Get pepper spray and a baton. If you are trained well enough, anything (keys, belt, stick) are all good defensive weapons. Knives are just for butch losers who want to have a reason to kill something. I could say the same thing about guns, but I know get flamed.
Plus I have nothing against guns or knives (I carry a knife myself), but I am a pacifist, and would only fight to protect someone I respect, and even then I wouldn't esaclate it with a knife.You are better off with pepper spraw, or like somebody said, bear spray. The only way a knife would do you any good is if you are trained in knife fighting. Even then, you'd most likely end up with a prison term.
why can't kids take an old fashion beat down anymore? What's with this talk about getting knives and guns? this is the pussification of america!
ViviTheMage
Lifer
Uppsala9496
Diamond Member
- Nov 2, 2001
- 5,272
- 19
- 81
Pulling a knife is about the dumbest thing you can do.
Who cares if it is 100% self defense. Unless one of the "attackers" has a knife you are going to be going to jail. Even if one of them has a knife, you will be going to jail.
Even if it is self-defense and you are 100% correct in pulling a knife and using it, you will still be going to jail. You may not spend a lot of time there, but you will go there.
You will have to deal with going to court. You most likely will be dismissed from school.
Is all that worth it to feel like a tough guy with a knife? If you are going to get in a fight, leave it to bare knuckles and hope that you can id those that "attacked" you. Let the school/police disipline them. Bringing a weapon into the conflict is only going to make matters worse for you.
Who cares if it is 100% self defense. Unless one of the "attackers" has a knife you are going to be going to jail. Even if one of them has a knife, you will be going to jail.
Even if it is self-defense and you are 100% correct in pulling a knife and using it, you will still be going to jail. You may not spend a lot of time there, but you will go there.
You will have to deal with going to court. You most likely will be dismissed from school.
Is all that worth it to feel like a tough guy with a knife? If you are going to get in a fight, leave it to bare knuckles and hope that you can id those that "attacked" you. Let the school/police disipline them. Bringing a weapon into the conflict is only going to make matters worse for you.
Wow. If you're so buff and tough, why not take them all out with Chuck Norris roundhouses? :roll:
The girls need bear spray or a taser. A knife will just get you injured much more severely than just throwing hands.
(Edited for nested quote removal.)
- M4H
dabuddha
Lifer
- Apr 10, 2000
- 19,579
- 17
- 81
God some people are idiots.
Let me try to explain it irishScott.
Situation: Confronted by 10 angry drunk punks in a stairwell or hallway and there is no RA around or quick enough access to a phone (as he's stated multiple times). They decide to get rowdy.
Option A) Stand there like an idiot and get the living crap beaten out of him.
Option B) Whip out ole glinty and defend himself.
If you pick Option A, then you're an idiot. I personally would like to go down fighting if a fight is inevitable. Of course, avoiding a fight at all costs is the best way (as the OP mentioned multiple times)
Now I know people will just read one part of this and ignore the rest. So I'll reiterate, read the freaking situation
Let me try to explain it irishScott.
Situation: Confronted by 10 angry drunk punks in a stairwell or hallway and there is no RA around or quick enough access to a phone (as he's stated multiple times). They decide to get rowdy.
Option A) Stand there like an idiot and get the living crap beaten out of him.
Option B) Whip out ole glinty and defend himself.
If you pick Option A, then you're an idiot. I personally would like to go down fighting if a fight is inevitable. Of course, avoiding a fight at all costs is the best way (as the OP mentioned multiple times)
Now I know people will just read one part of this and ignore the rest. So I'll reiterate, read the freaking situation
Agreed. The best thing to do would have been to walk up try to talk the people down from being hysterical while looking them each in the eyes. Then if they persist, call the cops, and try to pull the guy and the two girls away from the situation into a more public place.
It is about using your head and keeping your cool in any situation.
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