Hmmm. . .lets think about that for a second. . .they give the illusion of making it look like they are paying higher than market value. It is an illusion because they assume you'll work > the standard 40 hours per week to earn it. They pay extra to account for the overtime worked. Well if you are working to earn the amount over market value they are paying. . .then you aren't really getting payed above market value. You are just getting payed for the extra work you do. Lets say they pay 10% over "market value" whatever that happens to be in your city. . .And lets say the standard work week is 40 hours. So 40 hours + 10% would be another 4 hours for a total of 44 hours a week. If you work 40 hours or less per week, you come out ahead. If you work 44 hours a week, you are being payed market value. If you work > 44 hours per week you are getting screwed and working for free essentially. If they really want to pay higher than market value, they have to let you work a standard 40 hour week and still pay you the 10% extra above market value. If people have to work extra hours to "earn" the amount above market value that they make, then they really are just saying, our standard work week is 44 hours, not 40. But to the public they are saying "Hey we pay above market value." But what they are not saying to the public and are hoping that people are too stupid to see is that they are not only making X% more but they are also working X% more to earn it. So they are not really paying above market value in that case. All they are trying to do is redefine the number of hours in the standard work week from 40 to 44. Nice try though.
So what does this pay cut say to me? It says that IBM just assumed that everybody was working 46 hour work weeks (40 hours + 15% = 46 hours). They weren't paying over market value for people who worked > 46 hours per week. Only those who worked < 46 per week.
It seems to me that the 8000 employees that received the 15% pay cuts were overpaid. Only IT specialists and tech support workers were affected, and the average they earned was $80k. That's extremely high-paying for those jobs.
My wife is in support and there are MANY different levels of support. She use to do design work and now does support, even though some have ask/begged her to come back to design. Trust me, she is anything but over paid. Her support is internal and some high level customers.
It might be high paying but keep in mind they were being paid for assumed 46 hour work weeks, not the standard 40 hours per week. So 80,000 - 15% brings the figure down to 68,000. Does that sound more inline with market value?
But in IBM she is labeled "support" as is all the other engineers with Bs/Master degrees and many years of training/work.
Tech Support != help desk
When I have a problem with my laptop, I call the help desk, usually a person in India definitely not earning 80k - level 1 support at first, kicked up to level 2 if he cant solve it.
When I have a problem with my Application Server, I open a ticket with the Support, the person can be anywhere, and is at least a level 3 support. People with thinkpads dont call them or know them. They work on application backend, and deserve a good salary for their knowledge and education.
MaxDepth
Diamond Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 8,757
- 43
- 91
I left IBM two years and have no regrets. I look back on it as the most dysfunctional, most passive/agressive environment I have every worked in.
That being said, many of my friends still work there and some (5) have been marked for reclassification to hourly. There are many assumptions going on in here but no real facts. I hope to set some of this straight.
No, it is not about greed. Here in North Carolina since 2001, IBM has been consistently lower than market value for income, both hourly contract and full time employees, on average. Technical services and first and second line management pay better in the biological industries. In Global Services, where the biggest reclassification is to occur, many people provide services that go beyond help desk - design, project mgmt, development, et - both as rotational on-call and short term hypercare (increased support at project kick-off and closing). It is not unheard of for some of these individuals to work upwards of 72 hours in a seven day period.
One lawsuit is from California where they have more stringent work policies and laws. These large bumps of work over the designated number of normal hours, without compensation, is what led to the lawsuits.
No, overtime will not be autmoatically factored into their pay. In fact if anything, there will be a corporate push to make it harder to gain overtime. At IBM, you have to have manager approval for overtime. At the manager level, you are expected to curb overtime and bring projects in line to expected estimates. Basically, a manager is dinged on his performance if there is too much overtime. What is too much? That is tricky because the higher management will never really say what is expected and not expected. They exepct the first line managers to be too scared of jepordizing their bonus to allow much overtime, if any.
In short, IBM will tighten the allocation of overtime for both contractors and now IBM non-exempt. You will have more time with your families but getting paid 15% less.
And on, you just can't quit. This is silly to even suggest that. For one thing people have to eat and pay bills and how are they supposed to that on no income? Also, even in a robust economy, our area would be hard pressed to find equal skill level work for an extra 800 people going back into the job market. Even the idea of our area being flooded with resumes from IBM will create a buyers market and drive down real wages until these people are absorbed back into the economy.
Of my 5 friends affected, only one makes around $80K a year. The others make around 50-60. If they work 40 hours a week, they stand to lose $7500 this year - which is about $145 a week less to spend on clothes, housing, food, entertainment, savings, etc. So much for an upper middle class environment at IBM.
That being said, many of my friends still work there and some (5) have been marked for reclassification to hourly. There are many assumptions going on in here but no real facts. I hope to set some of this straight.
No, it is not about greed. Here in North Carolina since 2001, IBM has been consistently lower than market value for income, both hourly contract and full time employees, on average. Technical services and first and second line management pay better in the biological industries. In Global Services, where the biggest reclassification is to occur, many people provide services that go beyond help desk - design, project mgmt, development, et - both as rotational on-call and short term hypercare (increased support at project kick-off and closing). It is not unheard of for some of these individuals to work upwards of 72 hours in a seven day period.
One lawsuit is from California where they have more stringent work policies and laws. These large bumps of work over the designated number of normal hours, without compensation, is what led to the lawsuits.
No, overtime will not be autmoatically factored into their pay. In fact if anything, there will be a corporate push to make it harder to gain overtime. At IBM, you have to have manager approval for overtime. At the manager level, you are expected to curb overtime and bring projects in line to expected estimates. Basically, a manager is dinged on his performance if there is too much overtime. What is too much? That is tricky because the higher management will never really say what is expected and not expected. They exepct the first line managers to be too scared of jepordizing their bonus to allow much overtime, if any.
In short, IBM will tighten the allocation of overtime for both contractors and now IBM non-exempt. You will have more time with your families but getting paid 15% less.
And on, you just can't quit. This is silly to even suggest that. For one thing people have to eat and pay bills and how are they supposed to that on no income? Also, even in a robust economy, our area would be hard pressed to find equal skill level work for an extra 800 people going back into the job market. Even the idea of our area being flooded with resumes from IBM will create a buyers market and drive down real wages until these people are absorbed back into the economy.
Of my 5 friends affected, only one makes around $80K a year. The others make around 50-60. If they work 40 hours a week, they stand to lose $7500 this year - which is about $145 a week less to spend on clothes, housing, food, entertainment, savings, etc. So much for an upper middle class environment at IBM.
MaxDepth
Diamond Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 8,757
- 43
- 91
Marlin1975 is right. Global Services is much more than some voice on the other end telling you to reboot your system. Those people you think of help desk are already hourly and not affected here.
The people affected are the ones who, for IBM, figure out how to help a company buy, install, and manage whole network infrastructures. They are paid to provide assistance to high level business partners who buy into systems or applications. These people are the ones who have the strong technical background to architect solutions while also have the soft skills, people skills, to help the sales force close the deal. In short, they are the ones who actually make IBM prosperous. IBM no longer makes money on products they sell; they make profit from leveraging patents and support contracts.
The people affected are the ones who, for IBM, figure out how to help a company buy, install, and manage whole network infrastructures. They are paid to provide assistance to high level business partners who buy into systems or applications. These people are the ones who have the strong technical background to architect solutions while also have the soft skills, people skills, to help the sales force close the deal. In short, they are the ones who actually make IBM prosperous. IBM no longer makes money on products they sell; they make profit from leveraging patents and support contracts.
ultimatebob
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2001
- 25,134
- 2,450
- 126
You need to factor in where these people are living. 80K a year might sound like a lot until you realize that the cost of living is 50% higher in the NYC metro area than most places.
80K is an average salary in the NYC area. It's nothing to brag about, that's for sure.
My job was reclassified almost 2 years ago, I think. My company kept our hourly rates the same, but I lost a week's vacation by changing from exempt to non-exempt. My bonus structure also changed from a 10% max to a 6% max, or something like that. On the plus side, I think we got a 5% lump-sum "buyout" to compensate us for the loss. I don't have a paystub handy, but I think I made about $15k in OT last year, which puts me WAY ahead in that I could take a week unpaid and still be ahead.
Trust me, resumes are flying.
FYI here are some of the job descriptions affected:
Availabilty managers
Business continuity managers
DR managers
Server Admins
Network Admins
Band 7 Service delivery managers
IMAC (install move add change) managers
RCA (root cause analysis) managers
CERT Engineers (security)
Problem/change cordinators
etc
My family member will get OT but many will not. She is involved with outages so when something blows up they can't say "sorry, you're past 40 hours".
Keep in mind these will be impacted Directly:
Long and short term disability coverage
Group life insurance
401K contribution
Yearly performance bonus (% of base pay)
If someone gets promoted to an exempt position a band increase is max 7% pay increase (which will not make up the difference - so TALENT will leave IBM)
Vacation and sick time = no OT
Other IT companies wishing to pick up talent from IBM will be having a field-day.
And to top it off... IBM management has the names of the people who signed up for the class action that led to this shake up.
Originally posted by: vrbaba
Its unfortunate that it happens, but in consulting, this "unspoken" rule exist for almost all companies, and not just IBM.
I can work anywhere from 10-60 hours, but I wont be laid off as long as the work I am doing is as expected and completed on time.
I hate how I get judged by the fact that i have to work more to be comparable to others just so I can show more billable hours, instead of the fact that I do my job in half the time than it would take anyone else to do it. Hence, i just tend to estimate how long they expect me to finish the work and log my time accordingly. Its almost making me inefficient, but hey if efficiency hurts my pay, i would rather use the extra time to write up a rant on ATOT.
p.s. i am billable right now
Wow that sounds like my job...
Yep there are a good number of people leaving the raleigh IBM office. Of course they have shortages in some areas now and that will only get worse as some senior people that have worked for IBM, when they were a good place to work, are leaving in the next year or 2.
Like i said IBM is ok to work for a year or so after college but staying longer will not help your career.
IBM isn't just "support". Engineers, many developers and R&D scientists get paid well over 100K with the full works of benefits and flexible working conditions.
The help desk won't be getting million dollar bonuses and pirate treasure as you seem to expect. IBM paid these people well above average for their positions. As a result of the lawsuit they were forced to drop baseline pay and even now they still make good money for what they do.
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