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Any doctors / med students / pharmacists in the house?

halik

Lifer
So I'm looking up general info on the pain killers I got after my appendix surgery (Percocet).

The second line of under the "Recreational Use" threw me off - percocet also includes a non-opioid (paracetamol) to prevent abuse, but they never explain the mechanics of it. Can anyone explain how that works? I tried googling it, but I couldn't get any real info.

wiki link
 
When I learned about opioid narcotics, they never told us that the combination of percocet, which is just tylenol and hydrocodone, was to prevent abuse. They just told us it worked synergistically to increase the effectiveness of the pain relief. There's no doubt you can still get addicted to percocet or percodan or any narcotic. Perhaps it allows their to be less narcotic added in the pills while giving the same pain relief, I really don't know.
 
Its so that supposedly the users can't just crush the pill and snort it...or various other reasons...like giving the abuser an upset stomach or liver damage. But most abusers I know dont care about that...they just care about the high.

It's to make it harder to abuse but tylenol is easy enough to filter off if you know how...
 
Yeah, basically it is to prevent you from just popping a ton pills for the opioid effects.

With the ratio they have it at (usually between 1::30 and 1::100 or about there), basically means that if you take a lot of them, you will start feeling negative effects from the massive amounts of tylenol (aka paracetamol, aka acetaminophen) before you can overdose on the opiate.



EDIT: and what DeathBUA said about preventing snorting/injecting/smoking for faster "high" etc..
 
Still easy to abuse depending on what your doc gives you. I recently hurt my finger and the doc gave a script for 30 hydrocodone that were 10/325's. Just one of those would rip you to shreds and not bother your system in terms of the acetaminophen. Could take two actually and still be fine but not sure you'd be walking after 20mg of the "good" stuff.

I had surgery in August and I never received anything that wasn't at least 7.5/325 or 10/325. Only once did they give me something that I wouldn't advise taking more than two of which where the 5/500's. The latter is definitely a deterrent to getting into a habit forming situation so I'm surprised more docs don't do it. But people with pill problems are gonna take them anyway, with no regards to the damage the Tylenol is doing to their body.
 
percocet, which is just tylenol and hydrocodone

Actually, Percocet is a combo if tylenol and oxycodone.

And: paracetamol = tylenol

There is nothing in Percocet to prevent abuse (other than the fact that the tylenol limits how much you can take in a day otherwise you will see toxicity...must avoid < 4g tylenol per day).

Oxycontin (sustained release oxycodone) does have componants to limit abuse...



 
Originally posted by: ebaycj
Yeah, basically it is to prevent you from just popping a ton pills for the opioid effects.

With the ratio they have it at (usually between 1::30 and 1::100 or about there), basically means that if you take a lot of them, you will start feeling negative effects from the massive amounts of tylenol (aka paracetamol, aka acetaminophen) before you can overdose on the opiate.



EDIT: and what DeathBUA said about preventing snorting/injecting/smoking for faster "high" etc..


Aaah, yeah the best explanation google pulled up was that you'll get liver failure before you get high... that didn't seem to make much sense.

So basically the idea is that you'll overdose on acetaminopen part efore you overdose on the opiod?

In any case, they gave me 5/325 pills, inititally to take 2 every 4-6 hours.
 
Originally posted by: halik

Aaah, yeah the best explanation google pulled up was that you'll get liver failure before you get high... that didn't seem to make much sense.

So basically the idea is that you'll overdose on acetaminopen part efore you overdose on the opiod?

Yeah. That's exactly it.

If you mix an opioid with another drug, then it drastically reduces the abuse potential. If you take more than the normal dose you poison yourself with the other drug.

The problem with pure opioids, is that they all have roughly the same effect. So an addict could easily substitute heroin for oxycodone - and due to tolerance to the drugs, may need 10 oxycodone tabs for a good hit. As a result, pure opioids are highly desired by drug abusers, and are very easily sold on the black market.

Because mixtures will cause unacceptable side effects before reaching a psychoactive dose, they are very limited in abuse potential. Most people involved in drugs to this extent will know that acetaminophen mixtures are fatal in overdose, and will neither steal them nor buy them.

At least, that's the intention. There are occasional serious acetaminophen/paracetamol poisonings presumably because of people carelessly abusing these mixtures.

That said, there are a number of prominent physicans who disagree with these mixtures being available. Their argument has 2 parts:

1) in these mixtures, the amount of opioid is so small, that it is essentially worthless. E.g. the 10mg of oxycodone in 2 5/325 tablets, is a relatively small dose, with limited analgesic effect. Additionally, the combination of 2 drugs in one tablet makes adjusting doses more complicated.

2) Most overdoses are taken impulsively, and later regretted. In the case of acetaminophen, there are virtually no long-term effects if an overdose, even a very large overdose, is treated within 12 hours. However, the addition of opioids converts the overdose into an opioid overdose, which is rapidly incapacitating and fatal.
 
Originally posted by: Mark R
Originally posted by: halik

Aaah, yeah the best explanation google pulled up was that you'll get liver failure before you get high... that didn't seem to make much sense.

So basically the idea is that you'll overdose on acetaminopen part efore you overdose on the opiod?

Yeah. That's exactly it.

If you mix an opioid with another drug, then it drastically reduces the abuse potential. If you take more than the normal dose you poison yourself with the other drug.

The problem with pure opioids, is that they all have roughly the same effect. So an addict could easily substitute heroin for oxycodone - and due to tolerance to the drugs, may need 10 oxycodone tabs for a good hit. As a result, pure opioids are highly desired by drug abusers, and are very easily sold on the black market.

Because mixtures will cause unacceptable side effects before reaching a psychoactive dose, they are very limited in abuse potential. Most people involved in drugs to this extent will know that acetaminophen mixtures are fatal in overdose, and will neither steal them nor buy them.


Clever stuff... I'm still amazed I can get answers to bio-med questions on atot 🙂

In any case, I think I'm about done taking the pills (I have been taking them on and off for the past 2 weeks). I've definitely noticed the decrease of the oxycodone effect compared to when I first started taking them - I only take 1 pill in the morning now and I can barely feel it.
 
I was on percocets for a while then on oxycodone cr (generic oxycontin). Before that I took vicodin. I have lower back problems. The vicodin definitely made me feel happier, atleat at first. The oxy was much better for pain control, and taking two percocets (7.5mg x 2) would put me in a daze for a couple hours.

As others have already stated, the tylenol is there mainly to prevent abuse, though it does help increase your pain threshold as well. You can find ways to seperate the tylenol out of it if you want (soluble in certain liquids while the oxy is not) but I don't think you really want to get into abusing them. I've seen people hooked on oxycodone/hydrocodone, it's not pretty.
 
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