Any change in PC P&C quality after acquisition by OCZ?

[aigomorla]

However with PCP&C's stubborn refusal to offer the features we want when spending money on a good PSU (modularity, larger fans, etc), I don't even consider them for my purchases or recommend them for others. With Antec, Corsair, and Seasonic offering the same quality but with wider model ranges and more features, I see no good reason to buy PCP&C

now why would a company that was ranked tier 1 listen to consumers who know only of aesthetics... and not how the internal workings of a good psu are?

Sorry, i have 4 old PCnC, still consider them the greatest PSU's i have owned.
The only one that came comes close to quality of it, is an ETASIS.

 

[nitromullet]

Perhaps there are other reasons PCP&C has stuck to its guns with regards to modular cables...?

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-flmdce/case_no-6:2008cv00503/case_id-212287/

 

[yh125d]

now why would a company that was ranked tier 1 listen to consumers who know only of aesthetics... and not how the internal workings of a good psu are?

Sorry, i have 4 old PCnC, still consider them the greatest PSU's i have owned.
The only one that came comes close to quality of it, is an ETASIS.

Oh bother, don't assume PCP&C's consumer base is a bunch of blithering idiots that only know aesthetics



Why should a company listen to consumers? Are you aware of how silly that sounds?

It doesn't matter if they think modular is bad (which it has been proven that it ISNT), from a business perspective it's absolutely stupid to not offer the industry-wide and much sought after features that ALL of their competitors offer. The customer is -always-right. And the customer (overall) wants modularity and big fans. Maybe not on every model but at least give a few options like literally ALL other PSU companies worth mentioning.

Noone's saying PCP&C doesn't make good PSU's (or at least I am not). What I am saying is why the hell would you buy PCP&C when other companies (seasonic/corsair/antec) offer the same performance/quality, but with more features for the same price?

 

[ChaiBabbaChai]

Rule #1 - if a company claims to be above the rest, then they better motherkufcing be building the things themselves! Otherwise they are tied for 1st at best. Most common, current case in point: Intel builds their own SSD controller. No other SSD is as good - close but not as great as Intel's.

This PSU industry needs more competition.

 

[tomoyo]

Rule #1 - if a company claims to be above the rest, then they better motherkufcing be building the things themselves! Otherwise they are tied for 1st at best. Most common, current case in point: Intel builds their own SSD controller. No other SSD is as good - close but not as great as Intel's.

This PSU industry needs more competition.

I think we have more than enough competition, just think Antec, Seasonic, OCZ, Corsair, BFG, Nexus, Enermax, Xigmatek, to name a few. Just the competition is weird because we have oems that are both suppliers and competitors. And we also have many companies that source from the same oem. But even the oem makers has a number of choices and some that make very good psus. Right now all I want to see is more high efficiency and quality dc output psus at fair prices. We've got a few out there, we just need more

 

[Martimus]

The FUD is thick in this one



I'm sure PCP&C has their "reasons" for not giving consumers popular features, but there reasons are -not- rooted in good evidence and fact. I've read reviews that show modular connectors drop voltage by a whopping <1% (which you get with hardwired connectors too), and I've seen similarly negligible numbers myself. Heatsinks may need to be lower in a 120mm PSU, but with a rear 80mm fan, it can only blow over 2/3 of the PSU width, so is one really more limited than the other? No. PCP&C designs their PCB layouts and heatsinks to work well with an 80mm fan, and all other manufacturers design their heatsinks to work better with 120mm fans. No manufacturer is hindered in their design process by using a 120mm fan


The bottom line is that PCP&C has -no- good reason to offer ONLY 80mm/non-modular designs. They are really limiting their customer base. I know they have lost me as a possible customer, and many others as well. Plenty of other brands offer everything PCP&C offers, but with the modularity and bigger fans we want. Why buy PCP&C?

lol.

Both reasons they give are completely true. I haven't designed a power supply or the subsequest wiring circuitry for almost 10 years, but to say that either of those issues doesn't hold water is obviously false. Both issues are obvious, and likely the only reason they haven't switched over to those features. (Honestly, why would the company leave out these features? It would make little sense on its own merit, since both are easy to implement.)

What they could do is figure out a better modular design; one that will greatly limit the loss that occurs from the standard connections we currently have. Figuring out how to limit corrosion at those points is a tought one, and I can't think of any ideas off the top of my head, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. They could redesign the connections so that they are less likely to bend/break. This one is much easier than the first, although it would require more space than the standard connector.

They could also reconfigure the internal components to allow a larger fan inside the case while maintaining proper airflow and heat sink size. This may be possible by rotating the circuitry 90 degrees so that you have two smaller PCB's that are vertical vs. one larger horizontal PCB. This should allow greater airflow through the PSU, and allow taller heatsinks, but will come at the cost of seperating the design (which is bad for EMI, and leads to more loss).

Even without changes, it is entirely possible to meet acceptable specs with lost voltage due to extra corrosion, and less airflow through the PSU. That being said, they have a quality design as it is, and likely don't want to make major changes to it by going in a new direction. They know the pratfalls of their current design, but a new radical design may give them quality issues, which is probably what they want to avoid at all costs.

 

[yh125d]

lol.

Both reasons they give are completely true.

No, they aren't. They are NOT true. They are 100% utter FUD. There is -no- appreciable power loss across a modular connector. Tests have shown that there is more vdrop across an 18" length of wire than across a modular connector


There is -no- reason 120mm fans are worse than 80mm fans. They do not restrict any components heightwise except heatsinks, which can be tweaked in shape to offer the same cooling capacity in a shorter form factor because the PCB can be longer and because 120mm fans blow over almost the entire width of the form factor, where 80mm fans can blow only over 60% or so. There is -no- truth to saying that 80mm designs are inherently better than 120mm designs



PCP&C's claims regarding modular connector power loss and large fans are utter, 100%, complete misinformation and FUD (add their claims regarding multi-rail designs as well). There is a reason -every- other PSU company worth mention does all of these things, and it's not because PCP&C knows better than the entire industry.

 

[JEDIYoda]

The FUD is thick in this one



I'm sure PCP&C has their "reasons" for not giving consumers popular features, but there reasons are -not- rooted in good evidence and fact. I've read reviews that show modular connectors drop voltage by a whopping <1% (which you get with hardwired connectors too), and I've seen similarly negligible numbers myself. Heatsinks may need to be lower in a 120mm PSU, but with a rear 80mm fan, it can only blow over 2/3 of the PSU width, so is one really more limited than the other? No. PCP&C designs their PCB layouts and heatsinks to work well with an 80mm fan, and all other manufacturers design their heatsinks to work better with 120mm fans. No manufacturer is hindered in their design process by using a 120mm fan


The bottom line is that PCP&C has -no- good reason to offer ONLY 80mm/non-modular designs. They are really limiting their customer base. I know they have lost me as a possible customer, and many others as well. Plenty of other brands offer everything PCP&C offers, but with the modularity and bigger fans we want. Why buy PCP&C?

They have no reason to change anything.....
before PC & Power and Cooling was available to the public they had already built an industrial following that is still very strong!

I know that all the computers at 2 local hospitals all have PC Power & Cooling PSU`s in them...so go figure...

 

[HOOfan 1]

lol.

They could also reconfigure the internal components to allow a larger fan inside the case while maintaining proper airflow and heat sink size. This may be possible by rotating the circuitry 90 degrees so that you have two smaller PCB's that are vertical vs. one larger horizontal PCB. This should allow greater airflow through the PSU, and allow taller heatsinks, but will come at the cost of seperating the design (which is bad for EMI, and leads to more loss).
.

Something Andyson did with the MT-8

As for corroding modular connectors, you have to remember that many companies use the same minifit junior type connectors at the PSU that is used at the component connection end. You can claim that having 2 sets of these connectors adds more points of resistance, but unless you start sending your computer in to have the PSU wires soldered to the components, then you are always going to have connectors to corrode. Other manufactures gold plate the connections to prevent corrosion.

Since PC P&C doesn't design their own PSUs anyway, the best they can do is collaborate with their OEMs to come up with different designs to uphold their "standards".

As it stands now however, both of their OEMs have models that flout every single one of their points in the "PSU Myths" page. I have not seen a Win-Tact tested beyond PC P&C, but the Seasonic designs with modular connectors and 120MM fans perform on par with the PC P&C models built on the same platform. As far as the X-Series, they perform better than any PC P&C models currently available, but PC P&C doesn't have a model built on that platform.

So yes, the only complete untruth on PC P&C's "Myths" page is that their competitors use modular connectors as a cost cutting measure.

Otherwise, yes, modular connectors add resistance, and yes fans that blow across components instead of down on components do cool better. But that hasn't stopped Seasonic from designing a fully modular 120MM fan cooled power supply that is more efficient than any other main stream PSU, and that doesn't even need to use the fan until 200W and beyond 200W barely even ramps up the fan.

PC P&C knows the options available to them.