Any change in PC P&C quality after acquisition by OCZ?

[Ken90630]

Hey, All,

I've been out of the soup, so to speak, for awhile and haven't been able to keep up with the PSU scene.

Just wondering if PC Power & Cooling PSUs are still of the same quality they used to be before OCZ bought them out. I remember at the time people were wondering if the quality would change (either right away or later down the line).

OCZ has been in control for awhile now, so is there any anecdotal or measured evidence of any changes to PC P&C PSUs one way or the other?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Every PSU built by each company is slightly different in quality. Some PCP&C Units are not as good as similar units from Corsair, Antec, Seasonic. Some units are very good and top tier.

Check out some of the recent reviews of their PSUs online and get an idea.

 

[robertk2012]

I havent even seen them for sale lately.

 

[ChaiBabbaChai]

Well, I was in the market a couple months ago and found out that the top-tier PC P&C is only slightly different than the Seasonic M12D (or is it S12D?)... Because PC P&C doesn't build any power supplies. (just FYI, The M12D is modular and the S12D isn't). I went with the M12D. Now the Seasonic X-series is the top-tier. That model just came out. So, if you're thinking about PC P&C, then I say just skip over them and get a Seasonic branded one.

 

[yh125d]

As it stands now they don't seem to have changed a bit. Their recent silencer 910 is a PCP&C modified version of the Seasonic M12D 850w, so they're still good


However with PCP&C's stubborn refusal to offer the features we want when spending money on a good PSU (modularity, larger fans, etc), I don't even consider them for my purchases or recommend them for others. With Antec, Corsair, and Seasonic offering the same quality but with wider model ranges and more features, I see no good reason to buy PCP&C

 

[HOOfan 1]

The ownership changed hands and that is about it. PSUs are still being made by the same companies...Seasonic and Wintact.

 

[Ken90630]

The ownership changed hands and that is about it. PSUs are still being made by the same companies...Seasonic and Wintact.

Okay, thanks. I know PC P&C didn't manufacture their PSUs entirely, but it's my understanding they took base models from Seasonic or whoever and modified them a bit. So I guess I was wondering if that had changed since the acquisition by OCZ (since the acquisition obviously wouldn't have affected the Seasonic base products).

Shifting gears, who makes Corsair's PSUs these days? Do they make their own, or ???

 

[HOOfan 1]

Okay, thanks. I know PC P&C didn't manufacture their PSUs entirely, but it's my understanding they took base models from Seasonic or whoever and modified them a bit. So I guess I was wondering if that had changed since the acquisition by OCZ (since the acquisition obviously wouldn't have affected the Seasonic base products).

Shifting gears, who makes Corsair's PSUs these days? Do they make their own, or ???

PC P&C ASKS Seasonic to modify them slightly...they do some of their own wiring as well. However, there are plenty of other companies that also ask for modifications...I know Corsair does as well.

Corsair PSUs are made by Seasonic and Channel Well Technology

CX400 is Seasonic
VX450 is Seasonic
VX550 is CWT
HX520 is Seasonic
HX620 is Seasonic
HX650 is Seasonic
TX650 is Seasonic
TX750 is CWT
TX850 is CWT
HX750 is CWT
HX850 is CWT
TX 950 is CWT
HX1000 is CWT

 

[Ken90630]

Thanks a lot for the reply & detailed info. I appreciate it.

 

[jbmelraji]

Yeah....Corsair if I understand uses Japanese parts...which is top quality.

 

[Meghan54]

Yeah....Corsair if I understand uses Japanese parts...which is top quality.

True, Corsair specs their OEM's to use Japanese caps, but so do a host of other companies. Seasonic does, CWT does, Antec in their Signature-built Delta units does along with their TruePower line, and on and on. Corsair isn't the only one by far.

 

[jbmelraji]

True, Corsair specs their OEM's to use Japanese caps, but so do a host of other companies. Seasonic does, CWT does, Antec in their Signature-built Delta units does along with their TruePower line, and on and on. Corsair isn't the only one by far.

That's good to hear!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Yeah....Corsair if I understand uses Japanese parts...which is top quality.

so you a corsair fanboy...possibly you work for them....
Quite a few other companies also use japanese parts......Corsair is NOT the only one.....

 

[tomoyo]

so you a corsair fanboy...possibly you work for them....
Quite a few other companies also use japanese parts......Corsair is NOT the only one.....

Corsair obviously has a MONOPOLY on japanese parts! NOBODY ELSE CAN HAVE THEM!

 

[HOOfan 1]

Corsair obviously has a MONOPOLY on japanese parts! NOBODY ELSE CAN HAVE THEM!

Of course the Apevia Warlock uses all Japanese Capacitors too...and it is crap.

 

[ChaiBabbaChai]

Of course the Apevia Warlock uses all Japanese Capacitors too...and it is crap.

Do they make an Apevia Fire Mage, too? Yeah...

 

[Yellowbeard]

so you a corsair fanboy...possibly you work for them....
Quite a few other companies also use japanese parts......Corsair is NOT the only one.....

Just to be clear, NO, he does not work for us.

 

[jjmIII]

I'm a Corsair fanboy . Love their stuff!
Don't even work there...

 

[tomoyo]

I'm just a fan of any product that is good. That is what we should all be fans of, not any bs arbitrary love of a brand. Unfortunately Corsair has this problem of generally making good products. Why must you force me to like your stuff?

Also to be clear, some people on this board are biased for PC Power even though they certainly aren't special. I think there's been little change in their quality after OCZ's pickup, but there's also been little improvement either. When will they actually start adding useful features?

 

[ChaiBabbaChai]

I'm just a fan of any product that is good. That is what we should all be fans of, not any bs arbitrary love of a brand.

Amen, brother. People are whores.

When will they actually start adding useful features?

And, there seems to be very little competition driving this relatively ancient technology to push it's limits. I mean, it took them 20 years to figure out to move circuits to a different PCB (Seasonic's new X-series)????? I can see why maybe it took a while to develop solid capacitors, but electricity is different and less complex than chemical engineering.

 

[TheKub]

However with PCP&C's stubborn refusal to offer the features we want when spending money on a good PSU (modularity, larger fans, etc), I don't even consider them for my purchases or recommend them for others.

DON'T LOSE POWER WITH MODULAR PLUGS
Due to their look, convenience, and cost savings for manufacturers, modular plugs have become a popular power supply feature. Unfortunately, there has been little or no discussion of the impact of this feature on overall performance and reliability. The fact is, modular plugs limit power by adding to electrical resistance. The voltage drop can be as much as would occur in 2 feet of standard wire. Worse yet, modular plugs utilize delicate pins that can easily loosen, corrode, and burn, creating the potential for a major system failure. That's why professional system builders specify uninterrupted wire!

SHOULD AN ATX POWER SUPPLY BE COOLED WITH A 120MM FAN?
Most low-noise ATX power supplies today utilize a top-mounted 120mm fan rather than a rear-mounted 80mm fan. The 120's favorable reputation is based on the fact that under low to medium load conditions, the 120mm fan provides sufficient cooling at low RPM and low RPM fans are generally very quiet.

However, problems occur with this design when the load exceeds 50%-60%. Because the 120mm fan consumes about 1.5" of vertical space inside the PSU, heat sinks, capacitors, and other components are about 30% smaller in height compared to a PSU with a rear-mounted fan. The smaller parts can handle less current, so the maximum power available with the 120mm design is limited. And, because the heat sinks have less surface area, more air flow is needed with this design to keep the thermal situation under control. With 80%-100% load, the 120's fan speed can double and the noise level can jump by up to 20dB.

In conclusion, for systems that require more than 50% of the power supply's capacity, a well-engineered PSU with a rear-mounted 80mm fan will provide superior performance and reliability (due to larger components) at a noise level comparable to a PSU equipped with a 120mm fan.

I'm not an expert on power supply engineering or anything so their answers may be crap but when a company resists to give into "bad trends" I personally find that admirable.

 

[HOOfan 1]

I'm not an expert on power supply engineering or anything so their answers may be crap but when a company resists to give into "bad trends" I personally find that admirable.

No offense, but all of that doubletalk is designed to reel in suckers who don't know any better. All of them have a tinge of truth in them, but they fail to tell you the entire story. Anyone should know, that you always have to take the claims of a company trying to sell you their product with a grain of salt.

I think you will find that these reviews show a power supply that stands in sharp contrast to the entire blurb you just quoted from PC P&C's site.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/09/25/seasonic_x_series_x750_power_supply_review/

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=169

 

[TheKub]

Anyone should know, that you always have to take the claims of a company trying to sell you their product with a grain of salt.

Yeah, thats what the whole "I'm not an expert on power supply engineering or anything so their answers may be crap" statement was for. Good try though.

Adding modular cables or a larger fan can't be a horribly difficult task so if they are purposely not implementing these features they have some reasoning for choosing to do so.

If you need a quote from someone other than the MFG:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/power-supplies-psu,8016.html

Despite modular power supplies being a hot product, don't be quick to grab the up-take. The companies we spoke to told us that modular power supplies are less efficient than those that have their cables hard-wired. The reason being that the extra connection you make, adds resistance, and hence, increases heat and reduces efficiency.

Enermax, Seasonic, and Corsair all told us that if you're looking to maximize efficiency, go for a non-modular PSU.

Are the differences great? No one gave us any hard numbers, but they did indicate that the numbers are measurable.

Although, they do also quote from the PCP&C website as well which you may not like. Again, Im not a PS expert nor do I care to be. Is there a MFG that makes an identical PS in a modular and non-modular version and have had a thorough independent benchmark between them?

I’m not saying that modular\larger fans are a universally bad idea, but when someone criticizes a MFG for choosing not to implement them and there is reasonable chance that their stance has merit I find that commendable.

 

[HOOfan 1]

Is there a MFG that makes an identical PS in a modular and non-modular version and have had a thorough independent benchmark between them?

There are...I believe hardwaresecrets did a review of the S12D 850W and M12D 850W. They are both the same PSU, M12D is modular and S12D is not. I cannot get hardwaresecrets to load at the moment though.

The Silcener 910
and
The XFX Black Edition

are on the same platform, although since the Silencer is loaded 60W beyond the XFX, it is not a direct comparison.

I'll give you another link
Jon Gerow's (aka Jonny Guru) test on modular versus non-modular

I’m not saying that modular\larger fans are a universally bad idea, but when someone criticizes a MFG for choosing not to implement them and there is reasonable chance that their stance has merit I find that commendable.

I can't tell you exactly why they do it. Like I said, other than their statement that manufacturers make modular power supplies for cost saving reasons (that is complete BS, they cost more). Everything that you quoted from PC P&C has a tinge of truth to it, yet at the same time, there are PSU designs now that have pretty much made all of their arguments moot, as I showed with the Seasonic X series.

I truly believe that the reason they post that FUD and the reason they adhere to it, is because they specifically want people to think they are sticking to their guns, even if the reasons they are doing it is disingenuous. I wouldn't be surprised if they came out with a product that is counter to what they have been advocating in the past.


Edit: I have links to the Hardwaresecrets review...M12D 750W and S12D 750W.

I have the links, but they still are not loading correctly.

M12D 750W
S12D 750W

 

[yh125d]

The FUD is thick in this one



I'm sure PCP&C has their "reasons" for not giving consumers popular features, but there reasons are -not- rooted in good evidence and fact. I've read reviews that show modular connectors drop voltage by a whopping <1&#37; (which you get with hardwired connectors too), and I've seen similarly negligible numbers myself. Heatsinks may need to be lower in a 120mm PSU, but with a rear 80mm fan, it can only blow over 2/3 of the PSU width, so is one really more limited than the other? No. PCP&C designs their PCB layouts and heatsinks to work well with an 80mm fan, and all other manufacturers design their heatsinks to work better with 120mm fans. No manufacturer is hindered in their design process by using a 120mm fan


The bottom line is that PCP&C has -no- good reason to offer ONLY 80mm/non-modular designs. They are really limiting their customer base. I know they have lost me as a possible customer, and many others as well. Plenty of other brands offer everything PCP&C offers, but with the modularity and bigger fans we want. Why buy PCP&C?