Any carpenters/woodworkers around here?

[TitanDiddly]

I've been working with metal and plastics for a long time, but I'm planning on dabbling in wood for the first time. I want to make this tool chest. Yes, I modeled it in Solidworks before making it. I'm out of the country with too much time on my hands, I'm just planning well to make it when I get home.

Anyway, I want to dovetail the corners and do some other stuff that I don't know how to do. It's my first real woodworking project, but I want it turn out nice(naturally), as I'm more likely than not going to be using it every day. I have access to a table saw, but no special woodworking tools. Can anyone give me some tips, or direct me to a good woodworking novice site?

 

[nakedfrog]

WoodNet

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
WoodNet

ahhh I thought that was a gay porn site. Thanks!

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
WoodNet

ahhh I thought that was a gay porn site. Thanks!

No, you're thinking of nakedfrog.com

And no, I'm not kidding, so don't go there from work.

 

[TitanDiddly]

For any other carpenter wanna-bes out there, here is a very neat dovetailing method:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...c&mode=related&search=

Edit: I had the wrong link here, the video I linked to before was pointless. This one is good.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
WoodNet

ahhh I thought that was a gay porn site. Thanks!

No, you're thinking of nakedfrog.com

And no, I'm not kidding, so don't go there from work.

why edit it..even nakedfrog.com is under construction.

 

[rhino56]

i would suggest getting a router and a jig to make them, or just do it by hand but that takes some practice. With a nice dovetail saw it wont take long though once you get the technique down.
go to a woodworking store like rockler.com and get a book on how to make them. i used to have a cabinet shop until i movedout of state. now im just trying to save enough money to get some land and build another shop. i cant stand not having a shop to build stuff in, im really missing being able to make stuff. good luck with the project and post some pics of it.

 

[Whitecloak]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
WoodNet

yea. where the retards from tfnn hang out.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Yeah a dovetail jig and router will work best.

There are cheap $50 jig out there by Porter-Cable, but they only come with half blind dovetail templates and the through dovetail templates cost almost as much as the jig. Plus you'll need the right bushings and bit. In which case, I'd go to Hartvilletool.com cause they spell out exactly what you'll need. Enter "woodnet" in the coupon code field and they'll refund 15% of your order price. Leigh also now makes an affordable dovetail jig with total flexibility, but it's a little more.

Any other technique will require hand cutting them or using a router table with fence, but that will take way way longer and has a greater margin for error.

 

[ScottMac]

I have a Jointech fence and Saw Train.

Dovetails, compound divetails ... piece of cake, and reproduceable to .01"

Not cheap, but I love it, it's one of the best investments I've made for woodworking.

Check out some sites lke woodcraft.com and rockler.com - they are wood working retailers and have a variety of tools, jigs, fences, etc.

www.japanwoodworker.com also has some interesting tools for Japanses joinery (and unusual woodworking situations) ... interesting saws, planes & such.

Good Luck

Scott

 

[TitanDiddly]

The video I posted above makes hand-cutting look easy. It's really only for this one project right now, and I don't want to invest in a router and special dovetailing table etc for a one-off job. I'm a college student, and I'll be doing this in the school's machine shop which happens to have a table saw for occasional use. I'd have nowhere to put it, really. Will trying to cut them by hand using the above method definitely end in disaster or something? It seems straightforward to me, and the only investment really is a Japanese backsaw.

Has anyone here hand-dovetailed before?

 

[Pliablemoose]

It's painful to make dovetails without a jig, here's a table saw set up you can build.

http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel...kshop/fingerjoint.html

And Woodnet > *

 

[TitanDiddly]

Neat. Concerning materials- I heard one FAQ recommend using shelf stock from Home Depot/Lowes instead of going on the search for nice hardwoods etc. Does anyone know how wide these boards can be gotten? I'd need at least 16" ones. I have all the pieces I need laid out in CAD on a 4x8 sheet, but I figure that using some shelf stock would make a nicer end result than plywood. I also considered MDF, but it's so heavy that my tool chest would have weighed 80lbs empty! I'm using 1/16 steel for the drawer bottoms, a full 4x4' sheet in fact- 40lbs of steel. Aluminum would make it much lighter, but is more expensive. No, I don't want to use wood.

I'll most likely end up using plywood, as I have an inkling that 16" shelf stock isn't going to be cost competitive. Does anyone have any ideas what prices I'd be looking at for a decent sheet of 1/2" plywood? Not OSB, obviously- but it doesn't need to be oak either. What are my options?

 

[Sluggo]

You can probably get a sheet of baltic birch plywood for <$50. The rub here is that baltic birch comes in a 60"x60" sizing, you can get 4'x8' but it is hard to find.

Baltic Birch

 

[DrPizza]

good quality tools with appropriate jigs has made what used to be a tedious process to master now a relatively simple process. I'm sure there are still some people who use hand tools for such joints, but I can't see a reason why.

btw: something looks really out of perspective in that picture you linked to.

 

[TitanDiddly]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
good quality tools with appropriate jigs has made what used to be a tedious process to master now a relatively simple process. I'm sure there are still some people who use hand tools for such joints, but I can't see a reason why.

btw: something looks really out of perspective in that picture you linked to.

Picture came straight out of solidworks, one of the axonometric views- dimetric, IIRC. I noticed it too, but I don't know what makes it look funny.

While a jig and router setup would probably make this job really easy, I'm only making one, and I don't have either one and I don't want to buy them for a one-off deal. The youtube video that I linked to above make it look very doable. Is there any reason why I wouldn't be able to do it myself, after some practice?

Also, I'll need a special saw- I've seen special dovetailing saws for $100+, the main difference being that they cut on the backstroke and have a very thin kerf. Is there any reason why I couldn't use a coping saw? I know it's normally used to cut curves, but I don't think it'd be that hard to keep it straight after some practice.

 

[AlienCraft]

Rockler.com is the pr0n I like.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: TitanDiddly

Originally posted by: DrPizza
good quality tools with appropriate jigs has made what used to be a tedious process to master now a relatively simple process. I'm sure there are still some people who use hand tools for such joints, but I can't see a reason why.

btw: something looks really out of perspective in that picture you linked to.

Picture came straight out of solidworks, one of the axonometric views- dimetric, IIRC. I noticed it too, but I don't know what makes it look funny.

While a jig and router setup would probably make this job really easy, I'm only making one, and I don't have either one and I don't want to buy them for a one-off deal. The youtube video that I linked to above make it look very doable. Is there any reason why I wouldn't be able to do it myself, after some practice?

Also, I'll need a special saw- I've seen special dovetailing saws for $100+, the main difference being that they cut on the backstroke and have a very thin kerf. Is there any reason why I couldn't use a coping saw? I know it's normally used to cut curves, but I don't think it'd be that hard to keep it straight after some practice.

You are mistaken. Your cuts will look like my freehand drawings, using a mouse, in Photoshop. Although, you could clean it up with a rasp, I think the time and effort you'd expend would cause you to become frustrated with woodworking. Remember each drawer will require four joints, so on your project will have 32 joints, each having four to six dovetails on the small drawers and six to eight on the large ones.

Don't get me wrong, some people enjoy the woodworking more than the fruit of their labor. I've carved my wife a couple of bracelets that look like a flattened chain and it took me a couple of weeks each.

 

[TitanDiddly]

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: TitanDiddly

Originally posted by: DrPizza
good quality tools with appropriate jigs has made what used to be a tedious process to master now a relatively simple process. I'm sure there are still some people who use hand tools for such joints, but I can't see a reason why.

btw: something looks really out of perspective in that picture you linked to.

Picture came straight out of solidworks, one of the axonometric views- dimetric, IIRC. I noticed it too, but I don't know what makes it look funny.

While a jig and router setup would probably make this job really easy, I'm only making one, and I don't have either one and I don't want to buy them for a one-off deal. The youtube video that I linked to above make it look very doable. Is there any reason why I wouldn't be able to do it myself, after some practice?

Also, I'll need a special saw- I've seen special dovetailing saws for $100+, the main difference being that they cut on the backstroke and have a very thin kerf. Is there any reason why I couldn't use a coping saw? I know it's normally used to cut curves, but I don't think it'd be that hard to keep it straight after some practice.

You are mistaken. Your cuts will look like my freehand drawings, using a mouse, in Photoshop. Although, you could clean it up with a rasp, I think the time and effort you'd expend would cause you to become frustrated with woodworking. Remember each drawer will require four joints, so on your project will have 32 joints, each having four to six dovetails on the small drawers and six to eight on the large ones.

Don't get me wrong, some people enjoy the woodworking more than the fruit of their labor. I've carved my wife a couple of bracelets that look like a flattened chain and it took me a couple of weeks each.

Ok, thanks. Good to know. Will I be able to find a thin-kerf dovetail saw at just any home depot or lowes? Also, I'm not sure that I'm going to dovetail the drawers, I was thinking of dovetailing the main box joints, so only those four. I'm not worried about making the joints on the drawers strong because unlike a normal drawer, the steel plate on the bottom will make the whole thing rigid. I'm not sure how to attach the back of the main box. I suppose that could be dovetailed, but that seems like it would be a very weird way of doing it. What other methods are there, other than screws? Mortise and tenon?

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: TitanDiddly
.......... I'm not sure how to attach the back of the main box. I suppose that could be dovetailed, but that seems like it would be a very weird way of doing it. What other methods are there, other than screws? Mortise and tenon?

Your back will be attached last, so it would impossible to do a dovetail. You could do square finger joints. Normally cabinets have a rabbet going around the back that a piece of hard board/plywood is inset into and nailed or screwed. This will give the cabinet structural rigidity and keep the cabinet going out of square (racking).

 

[ScottMac]

There is a video I saw at Woodcraft that shows this guy causally hand-cutting ~3/4" dovetails while discussing dovetails and other woodworking techniques ... he could just as easily be one of the Chefs on the cooking channel making a salad .. so casual ... just a mark & a cut ... then a cut over here ... see??? So Easy !!

Let me tell you, I could have been knocked over witha feather. I do a little Japanese joinery, I took my shot at hand-cut dovetails & complex joints. I've done it for years and can do a reasonable job ... but not without at least a little waste & pain.

One of the guys that works there came over and saw my obviously stunned expression. He says "Oh, that guy? He's {whatever the name was} ... his father was a master cabinet maker, his grandfather was a master cabinet maker ... he started hand-cutting dovetails when he was ~six years old (let's call it 40 years of hand-cutting dovetails, a life of master-level cabinetmaking) ..."

You can do it, but you are not going to do it "like they do it on the video"

You can use a jig & router (both easily stored), you can use a guage and backsaw ... but before you start on your real project, build a "simple" box out of cheap pine first. Go ahead, I dare ya.

Make a 12" square box, with a lid and a decorative bottom, using 3/4 inch dovetails. Make a couple and try different tehniques ... practicing on cheap pine will save you a lot of money and might steer you to the level of frustration and grief you can tolerate in the real project (that is to say, assist you in your choice of the tools & techniques).

Good Luck

Scott