Any Better CPUs for this Dell (something cooler)? ***Edit: found one!

[Ketchup]

*** See post 18 for info/questions on the new Core 2.

First off, this thing is old, but pretty neat. It is in the boys' room and they love it. It is still a decent machine, but I would like to look into making it run a little quieter. This machine has the ATI Mobility Radeon 2400 and the Core 2 Duo E6550.

The Computer is a Dell XPS One 20:
http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/04/product-support/product/xps-one/manuals

Anybody want to help me look for a better CPU for this guy? Adobe Flash and Minecraft put a decent load on it (40-60% and 60-80% respectively), so not sure if it would take something cooler, more powerful, or both.

Here are some links that may help:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/30/dells-xps-one-gets-undressed-and-naughty/
http://electronics360.globalspec.com/article/2231/dell-xps-one-mtg-computer-teardown
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_2_microprocessors

Appreciate any input on this. If it makes any difference, it is running the latest BIOS, Dell XPS A2010 BIOS 2.0.6, dated March 2009.

 

[Burpo]

Of course you know that an SSD would make the most difference & be much cooler than a spinning hard drive in such a tight enclosure, but an E6850 offers about 30% improvement.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-SLA9U...009802?hash=item1ea880754a:g:OdoAAOSwT5tWG~o7

I don't know what you want to spend, but the SSD would drop temps/noise quite a bit and offer the most improvement.

 

[Ketchup]

The SSD may be in the cards, later. I personally didn't see a huge temp drop (or CPU fan speed drop) when I upgraded one of my laptops to an SSD, but since this thing machine is vertical it may be more pronounced. Hmm, I may try a swap and see what happens.

The E6850 would be a decent processing power improvement, but would probably run even hotter due to the base speed increase on same die.

 

[A5]

Gotta admit that I'm surprised that this thing has a full, socketed desktop CPU in it.

You can *probably* get a Core 2 Duo E8x00 in there...like maybe a used E8500 for $10 off of Amazon? Link

It won't be much cooler (same TDP), but it will idle a bit more often. Also make sure to re-do the thermal paste and clean out dust while you're in there.

 

[Ketchup]

That's what I am thinking. Something with a smaller die. My main concern is, would the board support it? Of course, considering that the BIOS revision is about a year newer than the chip, and I can get the chip to my door for around ten bucks, it's probably worth a shot, right?

Thanks alot for the link.

Edit: thermal paste definitely. Redid the paste when I first got the machine earlier this year. Honestly, I don't know if it made much of a difference, but I didn't have it for long before going in there, so it may have.

 

[A5]

Yeah, the BIOS is the only real question, but I can't really answer that definitively without looking at the microcode in there or a comprehensive history of the model's revisions.

I would wager decent money that they shipped a model of the XPS One with the 45nm Core 2s, but I can't confirm it. I honestly don't know why else they would be issuing BIOS updates for that thing in 2009, if it helps.

And like you said, worst-case you're out $10. I would have said the E8600, but that seems to be $25 on the used market.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://ark.intel.com/products/series/33902/Intel-Core2-Quad-Processor-Q9000-Series-for-Desktop#@All

One of the 65 watt quad core chips?

 

[coercitiv]

It is still a decent machine, but I would like to look into making it run a little quieter. This machine has the ATI Mobility Radeon 2400 and the Core 2 Duo E6550.

Whether you upgrade or not, keep in mind undervolting the CPU can be a very efficient method to lower heat. All my C2D machines undervolted really well. Nowadays is quite easy using a software like ThrottleStop.

 

[Ketchup]

http://ark.intel.com/products/series/33902/Intel-Core2-Quad-Processor-Q9000-Series-for-Desktop#@All

One of the 65 watt quad core chips?

Cool idea (literraly), but I don't know that a Vista-era machine would benefit at all from the extra cores, the 65 watt is nice, but those are still fetching $100 plus. With those chips being about a year newer than than an 8500, with the same 45nm, I don't know that I would want to run that kind of risk, nor put that much money into it.

 

[Ketchup]

Whether you upgrade or not, keep in mind undervolting the CPU can be a very efficient method to lower heat. All my C2D machines undervolted really well. Nowadays is quite easy using a software like ThrottleStop.

If you have a minute, I wouldn't mind a little more detail on how you do that. How would that work when running processes that are taxing the CPU at 50% or more, with a cooler that is already letting it run up to it's max safe temps.

 

[LTC8K6]

Q8200S or Q8400S might be cheaper?

Yes, prices look much better for those on Ebay.

 

[Ketchup]

Q8200S or Q8400S might be cheaper?

I appreciate that. Let me ask you a question. Comparing to the E8500, they are both 45nm, 65 watt, same voltage range, and the duo is 800 Mhz faster (and cheaper). For what my kinds use it for, I don't really see a good reason to go with the quad.

Do you see anything I am missing? I appreciate the input.

 

[LTC8K6]

More cores to do the work = a less taxed CPU for the same work load?

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/788/Intel_Core_2_Duo_E8500_vs_Intel_Core_2_Quad_Q8400S.html

 

[Ketchup]

More cores to do the work = a less taxed CPU for the same work load?

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/788/Intel_Core_2_Duo_E8500_vs_Intel_Core_2_Quad_Q8400S.html

In theory yes. But I don't know that anything they are doing (YouTube, Minecraft, watching movies) would even use more than 2 cores.

Edit, ok, confirmed that Youtube with flash is using 4 cores (looks like 3 main cores and one HT core) of my 4790.

Minecraft is using all 8. Hmm........

 

[cbn]

First off, this thing is old, but pretty neat. It is in the boys' room and they love it. It is still a decent machine, but I would like to look into making it run a little quieter. This machine has the ATI Mobility Radeon 2400 and the Core 2 Duo E6550.

The Computer is a Dell XPS One 20:
http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/04/product-support/product/xps-one/manuals

Anybody want to help me look for a better CPU for this guy? Adobe Flash and Minecraft put a decent load on it (40-60% and 60-80% respectively), so not sure if it would take something cooler, more powerful, or both.

Here are some links that may help:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/30/dells-xps-one-gets-undressed-and-naughty/
http://electronics360.globalspec.com/article/2231/dell-xps-one-mtg-computer-teardown
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_2_microprocessors

Appreciate any input on this. If it makes any difference, it is running the latest BIOS, Dell XPS A2010 BIOS 2.0.6, dated March 2009.

If this one has the G33 Express chipset like this one:

http://www.cnet.com/products/dell-xps-one-core-2-duo-e6550-2-33-ghz-monitor-lcd-20-series/specs/

(EDIT: The Engadget and Electronics360 links you provided do indicate G33 Express)

Then I would think about doing the LGA 771 to LGA 775 mod with a L5420 ($17 shipped, 50W 45nm 2.5 Ghz quad core with 12MB cache) or L5430 ($30 shipped, 50W 45nm 2.67 Ghz quad core with 12MB cache). Obviously, the L5420 is a better bang for the buck.

http://www.delidded.com/lga-771-775-cpus/

 

[coercitiv]

If you have a minute, I wouldn't mind a little more detail on how you do that. How would that work when running processes that are taxing the CPU at 50% or more, with a cooler that is already letting it run up to it's max safe temps.

Undervolting (running the CPU at lower voltage than stock value) results in lower power usage under load, hence lower fan speeds. It usually does little to lower idle power usage, but then again that's not what you're after.

For example, if i remember correctly, my last C2D mobile cpu had an operating voltage of 1.25V at 2.66Ghz and my father used it for a couple of years undervolted to something like 1.1V. The gains can be quite noticeable, as the drop in voltage has an exponential effect on power usage. Dropping voltage from 1.25 to 1.1V equals to lowering power usage under load by more than 20%, which has dramatic effect on heat output.

Here's an example from another forum:

2.4 GHz (266x9), 1.325v, 117W idle, 163W Prime95, 170W TAT, 21.1s SuperPI**
2.4 GHz (266x9), 1.1625v, 117W idle, 145W Prime95, 146W TAT, 21.1s SuperPI**
2.4 GHz (266x9), 1.025v, 109W idle, 133W Prime95, 134W TAT, 21.1s SuperPI**

Now, your target would be quite simple: establish a very low voltage at which your system is still stable running a CPU stress program (example: 1.05V), then set a higher operating voltage to make sure system is rock stable (ex: 1.1V) It may not be the best result one can obtain, but you get to enjoy 80% of the benefits while doing only 20% of the work.

My recommendation is to use ThrottleStop as it works well and it's quite easy to set up (you set a max multiplier for the CPU and the according voltage for that multi). If you're willing to look into it, I can search a proper guide or write some basic instructions myself in the weekend.

PS: this is not an alternative to upgrading, but rather a complementary solution.

 

[Ketchup]

Undervolting (running the CPU at lower voltage than stock value) results in lower power usage under load, hence lower fan speeds. It usually does little to lower idle power usage, but then again that's not what you're after.

For example, if i remember correctly, my last C2D mobile cpu had an operating voltage of 1.25V at 2.66Ghz and my father used it for a couple of years undervolted to something like 1.1V. The gains can be quite noticeable, as the drop in voltage has an exponential effect on power usage. Dropping voltage from 1.25 to 1.1V equals to lowering power usage under load by more than 20%, which has dramatic effect on heat output.

Here's an example from another forum:
Now, your target would be quite simple: establish a very low voltage at which your system is still stable running a CPU stress program (example: 1.05V), then set a higher operating voltage to make sure system is rock stable (ex: 1.1V) It may not be the best result one can obtain, but you get to enjoy 80% of the benefits while doing only 20% of the work.

My recommendation is to use ThrottleStop as it works well and it's quite easy to set up (you set a max multiplier for the CPU and the according voltage for that multi). If you're willing to look into it, I can search a proper guide or write some basic instructions myself in the weekend.

PS: this is not an alternative to upgrading, but rather a complementary solution.

Thank you very much for that. If I find time this weekend, I will play with this and see what happens with the current hardware.

 

[Ketchup]

Well, I ordered an E8500 and finally found some time to install and play with it a bit. It was an interesting experience. The computer recognizes it, but there are some quirks:

1. The BIOS, Device Manager, and CPU-Z correctly identify the CPU as an E8500, however, the chip won't budge from 2.0 GHz. Doesn't matter if it is sitting there or running a game. Power options do not show a range for CPU idle/load percentages either.

2. The fans in the computer will only run full speed. This is actually an issue I encountered when I first got the machine (actually the machine didn't even boot when I first got it). A few BIOS resets fixed that on the previous CPU, but not this time around.

3. The performance and temps are a bit better, but not worth the noise. If I can't get it straightened out, I will just put the original chip back in. This machine is pretty finicky though, so there is no guarantee that the original chip will fix the fan issue.

4. There is also a lag every so often, for no apparent reason. It's not accessing the hard drive really hard, and there aren't even a lot of things running, it will just freeze the mouse for a few seconds, then go back to normal.

If anybody has any ideas, I would appreciate it.

 

[Dingo-1]

Hi

I have a similar problem with the Bios-modification from my Dell A2010.

I try to change the CPU on my PC.
After the switch over the fan are at 100%
I found that the microcode (01067A) for the CPU is missing.
So I inserted the code in one of the original Bios files (M-20006)

Bur first, to check if I have a fall-back solution (if my mod. file fails) - I would reflash the original files provided by Dell.
If I try - I get the message: "C.\Winflash\afuadm.lnk is not a valid Win32 application." ( lnk seems to be the extention for link ??)
At this point I'm stucked :-(

How you could update or reflash your original Bios with biosupdate.bat ?

The last file in the process says: winflash /im-010008 /jm-020006 /pb
How did you done to insert the two files: M-10008 and the modified M-20006 ?

.

Thanks for you help

Friendly greetings.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

What version of windows are you using?

 

[Dingo-1]

Hi

Win 10 Home 32 bit

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Hi

Win 10 Home 32 bit

This thread in the Dell forums indicates you need to go back to Vista to flash the bios.

https://www.dell.com/community/XPS-Desktops/XPS-One-A2010-bios-upgrade/td-p/7308822

 

[Markfw]

Not to derail this thread, but with that old of hardware, you really need to upgrade.

 

[Ketchup]

Not to derail this thread, but with that old of hardware, you really need to upgrade.

Agreed. Since this thread from 4 years ago, the Dell has been placed un a closet and my kids are running much newer hardware. Even with the later chips that the machine "might" support with an unofficial BIOS, it's still going to be pretty slow for any current software.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Good call guys. If they can afford it that is. The posts made it obvious English is not their first language, and money may be tough to come by. Particularly given the current circumstances. I always try to help keep an old system running when that is all they can afford at the time.