I've noticed that computer power supplies support 115v and 230v (a lot but not all of them) and I was wondering if there was any sort of efficiency benefit to using a higher voltage outlet (using 3 wires in split phase wiring) over just the regular 110-120v. I can't see any reason why 230v would be any more efficient when the PC's power supply is just converting this stuff down to 3,5 and 12V devices.. Am I missing something here?
Any benefit to using 230V for computers over 115v?
- Thread starter fleabag
- Start date
230V is much more efficient. But it is meant to be used in Europe, where the power grid delivers 230V.
(I know, most parts of the world uses 230V. But I am only positive that Europe does).
(I know, most parts of the world uses 230V. But I am only positive that Europe does).
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
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One advantage of 240V is capacity. A 115V outlet typically maxes out at 15A. So a max 1725 watts for everything on that circuit. 240V minimum is usually 30A so 7200 watts for everything. That is the reason some servers and racks use 240V. I have a couple ups that are designed for servers that are 240V usage in the USA.
- Oct 25, 1999
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Yeah you (and most of the others) are missing something Big Time.
- - In the USA the Voltage of the outlets is 110V.A.C
In most of the world it 220V.A.C
So if one is using a computer in the USA it set to 115V.A.C
If One is using the computer (as an example) in Germany it sest to 220V.A.C
AS far as performance of the computer per-se, or any other appliance, there is No difference between plug it to 110V or 220V (it has be set according to what comes out of the outlet).
110V is much safer for human beings. It is much more likely to get into deep trouble if One is electrocute with 220 than 110.
Why 110 and 220?
W=I x V (Watt = Current x Voltage).
Thus if you have a device that is rated 1100 Watt
The current that flows through is 10 Amp when it is plugged to 110V and 5 Amp when it plugged into 220V
Construction wise, a wire that conducts electricity has to be thicker when it conducts higher AMPs.
I.e. in countries that use 220V the electrical wires that bring the electricity home can be thinner and thus use less copper and cost less money.
In the USA we are used to Big, Big Steaks, Big Burgers, Big Shakes, and Big Computer Cases with a Big LED Fans. In short Big everything, so we do not mind big thicker Wires.
P.S. Next time we should lough at Ms. Palin Not knowing that Africa is a continent. :shocked:
Watts are a unit, not a measured quantity. The equation is P = I * V (power = current * voltage), but even this only applies to resistive loads or those being supplied with DC. In other words, not a computer power supply.
I suspect it has more to do with the US being the original battleground for AC power transmission. Other countries had the opportunity to learn from our mistakes, while we were locked in by the substantial costs of changing voltages. I do not recall the reason, but generating power at 50 Hz is also supposed to be superior to 60 Hz, which is why most of the world does that differently too. 120 V @ 60 Hz is pretty unusual outside North America.
@OP: A power supply fed with 230 V will be more efficient because the process of converting that voltage down to the DC voltages that the other components need will be more efficient. Here's a graph (note that the darker bars are almost always longer) and here's another two (which, for no obvious reason, are not scaled the same way). I do not know offhand what technical issues might be involved in running a power supply in 230 V mode in the US in the way that you describe.
theAnimal
Diamond Member
- Mar 18, 2003
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110V is more dangerous because of the higher current required. The current is what kills.
http://vias.org/feee/safety_03.html
Current through an object is a function of its resistance.
Read the label on any automobile battery, and you'll find it can source many hundreds of amps.
Say your final words and grab the posts of the battery.
Nothing happens.
OK, those were not your last words
I feel like everybody is this thread has a little bit of truth and a lot of false info being posted. First off 120v may be the standard in the USA, but that doesn't mean you can't get 3 phase or 3 wire single phase 220v outlets here. The question I have for electricians is, what is the voltage standard for 3 wire single phase or 3 phase electricity? I've seen voltages in the range of 200v to 250v and while I think some voltages are exclusively in europe, the UPSs I've been looking at and PC power supplies say they support a certain voltage range, but 50/60hz.
Another thing I wanted to get out of the way is that 60hz operation is far more efficient than 50hz, so the difference between 120v 60hz and 240v 50hz is pretty close to being a wash, though overall, 240v 50hz is more efficient, but not by much. In the USA, since it's either 120v or 240v (I think) when you're using 240v here, it's 60hz which IS far more efficient.
Another thing I wanted to get out of the way is that 60hz operation is far more efficient than 50hz, so the difference between 120v 60hz and 240v 50hz is pretty close to being a wash, though overall, 240v 50hz is more efficient, but not by much. In the USA, since it's either 120v or 240v (I think) when you're using 240v here, it's 60hz which IS far more efficient.
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
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DC is way different in regards to shock potential.Originally posted by: nineball9
Current through an object is a function of its resistance.
Read the label on any automobile battery, and you'll find it can source many hundreds of amps.
Say your final words and grab the posts of the battery.
Nothing happens.
OK, those were not your last words
Use 13.8VAC @ 200 Amps and try that and you could die.
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
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I have a 240VAC single phase outlet in my living room. It was wired for a window air conditioner. The place has central air now, but the outlet is still good.
I have been thinking about pulling out one of the UPS I have that is 240V and using it, they are really nice UPS. I just need to adapt the plug.
Voltages are usually 220V - 250V. Just depends on the area you live in and what company provides the power. Here in NC where I live, the power is provided by Progress Energy and varies between 120-122V on a wall outlet so its 240-244V.
3 phase is an entirely different beast altogether.
- Oct 25, 1999
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The current the flow through a wire/object is function of its resistance.
The equation is I=V/R One Amp is generated by 1 Volt across 1ohm resistance.
As Far as humans are concern, what kills is Not the current that flow through the Appliance that you touch but the current that Flows through the person's body (especially when it hits the heart).
A current of 100-300 mA cause Ventricular fibrillation, and it fatal if persists over more than few seconds.
Let assume that some one body present Resistance of 2000ohm.
If you touch the 12V that goes to the Video card, it does not matter how much current goes to the card, through the person that has a resistance of 2000ohm
I=V/R 12V/2000ohm=.006 a current of 6mA would got through and the person would Not feel anything.
The same person touches 110V then 110V/2000ohm=.055 (55mA) the person would feel electrical shock, but he will survive.
Now he touches 220V then 220V/2000ohm=.11 (110mA) that can be Fatal.
Please Note, if the same person stands barefoot on a wet floor the resistance that he presents is much lower and even 110V can be fatal.
P.S. The are some minor differences between AC and DC but the principle is the same.
My posts on such issues are Not "Fairy Tales" I have a degree in EE.
The equation is I=V/R One Amp is generated by 1 Volt across 1ohm resistance.
As Far as humans are concern, what kills is Not the current that flow through the Appliance that you touch but the current that Flows through the person's body (especially when it hits the heart).
A current of 100-300 mA cause Ventricular fibrillation, and it fatal if persists over more than few seconds.
Let assume that some one body present Resistance of 2000ohm.
If you touch the 12V that goes to the Video card, it does not matter how much current goes to the card, through the person that has a resistance of 2000ohm
I=V/R 12V/2000ohm=.006 a current of 6mA would got through and the person would Not feel anything.
The same person touches 110V then 110V/2000ohm=.055 (55mA) the person would feel electrical shock, but he will survive.
Now he touches 220V then 220V/2000ohm=.11 (110mA) that can be Fatal.
Please Note, if the same person stands barefoot on a wet floor the resistance that he presents is much lower and even 110V can be fatal.
P.S. The are some minor differences between AC and DC but the principle is the same.
My posts on such issues are Not "Fairy Tales" I have a degree in EE.
You started out this thread speaking about the input voltage to your PC PS.
If you're speculating about "efficiency" of 115v vs 230v, fine in general.
But don't bring your computer PS into the mix. You live in the USA and use a PS based a USA standard wall outlet power.
If you keep the question of "efficiency" purely about standard voltages in general, your thread wouldn't get so jumbled.
- Oct 25, 1999
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240VAC is used in many instances in the USA.
Most of Newer Washer Dryers, Cooking Stove, and other Appliances that High im Wattage and thus Generate High Electrical current are geared toward 240VAC.
Most of Industrial machinery is 240VAC.
While there are small differences in pure efficiency these differences are Not the main reason for 240VAC usage
The main reason is Copper, appliances, and industrial settings (like computers rack installations) take huge amount of energy.
It takes much less copper to conduct half of the current that is generated by 240VAC as oppose to 110VAC in such settings.
Thus if talking about a single personal computer there is No functional difference what so ever between using 110VAC or 220VAC.
P.S. When I say Copper it means, thicker wires cost more, installing them is harder. Building the Engine in Washing machine is more costly and complicated when using Thick Copper wire for the engine loops and so, on and so on.
Most of Newer Washer Dryers, Cooking Stove, and other Appliances that High im Wattage and thus Generate High Electrical current are geared toward 240VAC.
Most of Industrial machinery is 240VAC.
While there are small differences in pure efficiency these differences are Not the main reason for 240VAC usage
The main reason is Copper, appliances, and industrial settings (like computers rack installations) take huge amount of energy.
It takes much less copper to conduct half of the current that is generated by 240VAC as oppose to 110VAC in such settings.
Thus if talking about a single personal computer there is No functional difference what so ever between using 110VAC or 220VAC.
P.S. When I say Copper it means, thicker wires cost more, installing them is harder. Building the Engine in Washing machine is more costly and complicated when using Thick Copper wire for the engine loops and so, on and so on.
Comdrpopnfresh
Golden Member
- Jul 25, 2006
- 1,202
- 2
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if you have a 220V line, or live in a country with 220-230V service, there are some benefits of 110-120V service.
-Higher efficiency for the power supply is attained; and a lower load levels too
-Less heat generated; resulting along with higher efficiency, less conversion is needed, therefore less waste energy
-Longer life of the power supply- less loading from the outlet side to provide the same power, and less heat means less stress on components and a potentially longer life
-Less danger to life. Using a desktop in a situation making shocks possible is dumb. But I'd prefer to be shocked by 20,000V with near-0 current than any voltage with substantial current. Just like it's not the height of the fall, but the impact that kills; it's not the volts, but the amps that kills. 1A has the ability to stop the human heart- that's a AA battery under godlike ideal conditions. But truth is less current is flowing with a 220V electric service than 115V service- shouldn't be a factor, but to be factual, 220V is safer.
-Higher efficiency for the power supply is attained; and a lower load levels too
-Less heat generated; resulting along with higher efficiency, less conversion is needed, therefore less waste energy
-Longer life of the power supply- less loading from the outlet side to provide the same power, and less heat means less stress on components and a potentially longer life
-Less danger to life. Using a desktop in a situation making shocks possible is dumb. But I'd prefer to be shocked by 20,000V with near-0 current than any voltage with substantial current. Just like it's not the height of the fall, but the impact that kills; it's not the volts, but the amps that kills. 1A has the ability to stop the human heart- that's a AA battery under godlike ideal conditions. But truth is less current is flowing with a 220V electric service than 115V service- shouldn't be a factor, but to be factual, 220V is safer.
I'm just looking at various rack mountable equipment and some state that it's 208V input, 230V input and 120V input. I tried to read up on this on wikipedia and the reasons for things the way they are just made me more confused. How is it that bridging certain wires would have you wind up with 208v and not 120v or 240v. I'm basically overwhelmed by the equal amount of 208v and 230v equipment and which equipment is intended for what region. I mean some equipment is said to be intended for europe yet it says it supports 50/60hz operation and 220-240V operation, with an acceptable input range being much higher than even that.
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