Any Alpha 8045 tricks that can cast light on this POS?

[sojin]

Hi, comrades

I am in desperate needs of some advice from you experienced OC'ers, especially who have the similar sys config.
Running a Tbird C 1400 on Epox 8k7a+, with Crucial PC2100 ECC, and the over-praised Alpha 8045 w/ 42CFM fan.
Initial read at 1600 12x133 is at 52C! under load it is up to 59C. Crashes eventually.
Initial read at 1400 10.5x133 is at 42C! under load it is up to 53C.
CPU is of AHYJA batch. Have reinstalled HSF twice, using AS too. HS is not lapped.

Any help would be appreciated!

 

[mboy]

Most likely the HS isnt making proper contact with the Cpu. Do u have the proper washer's etc on it? Do a search on hear, someone had a similar problem month or so back and tracked it to the washers mounted on the mobo. Even with an L1A on my 8045 on top of my Oc'ed XP1600, I am getting 47c FULL load SETI temps. I am going to reapply my ASII this weekend becasue I think I can lower it a bit by messing with it. Your temps too high and is most likely the contact between the chip and HS.

EDIT****** here is the link: most likely same problem as you are having.
Read the WHOLE thing. You probably have the wrong washers mounted to the mobo like this guy. You will soon be singing the praises of the 8045

 

[SWScorch]

make sure the HSF isnt contacting any component on the motherboard. I had the same problems when I first got my 8045; it took me 3 hours to finally realize that the edge of the HS was resting on a DIMM slot, thereby lifting that corner of the HS and making the contact with the CPU uneven.

If you are getting temps that high, something HAS to be wrong. As mboy said, it could be you are using the wrong washers, or maybe you need to add another washer to the screws, or it could be something like what happened to me. Take a look at this right here; that may have some relevance.

 

[gregor7777]

Yep, I had a problem that was quite similiar to yours. I just got those shouldered washers out of there and it works great. I mean come on, look at the size of the thing! It's fantastic!

 

[Divebrake]

Either you've got the world's worst case ventilation or the heatsink isn't seated properly.

 

[MoFunk]

<< Either you've got the world's worst case ventilation or the heatsink isn't seated properly. >>



Yep, check your ventilation! When I put my Alpha on my 1600xp and Epox 8k7a I had some high temps as well. Because the HSF is set to suck from the HS (make sure your doing that! It will make a big difference) I was getting a hugh hot pocket of air around the HS. So I set up a low speed 80mm right next to the HSF and temps went down a ton! Trust me! Oh and back to the fan sucking from the HS. That is the way it is designed so make sure that is how you have it. Fans blowing onto the HS have a hard time because of how close those fins are together. See a pic of my fan setup here if you like.

 

[PCHPlayer]

Any Alpha 8045 tricks that can cast light on this POS?
It amazes me how a heatsink whose praises has been sung up and down on this board is suddenly a POS just because you could not figure out how to install it. Perhaps the title should title should have been "Any Alpha 8045 tricks because I screwed up the installation". The 8045 is one of the best because you can mount a very low CFM fan and keep the noise down.
[Step down from the soapbox] That said, please post the solution once you have figured out the problem. I will admit that the 8045 can be a bit tricky to install, especially with all those washer and springs and screws.. Oh my.

 

[sojin]

Thanks for the thoughts from all of you!

But, I really have looked it hard, the HS is seated properly - will double check when get back -
and the case is ripped open now.

 

[sojin]

Oh, the fan made in TW is sucking hard as it's set up...

First time took <10 min to get 8045 on, though it might be faulty, so I put down 30 mins next couple times
to reinstall everything pertaining to that HSF... by looking at the trace on the thermal paste, it seems the
contact is alright...

Oh well, not the first time alpha owner, got the P125 and 6035 still running. Overall, it is good, but not much
superior than other ones... as some online guides have boasted...

Anyways, no offense, but I paid 60$ and haven't got expected result, and I have my work of trying... I think
I am entitled to call it "POS"...

 

[mboy]

Actually you are a Jackass. I paid less then $40 for mine SHIPPED (like most others here) and since your claiming it is a POS because you didnt install it right makes you a double jackass!
OBVIOUSLY it is installed wrong if your temps are too high. Why do you think it gets such great reviews and everyone else loves theirs?

 

[MoFunk]

OK be specific for me, do you have the fan blowing onto the HS or sucking away from it and how is your case ventiliation? Thanks.

 

[gregor7777]

Listen man, read that thread that was posted there. I had mine installed with those shouldered washers, and it looked pretty damned good. The contact that is. Take those off and add one washer to the top of the springs. That will do the trick. This thing is amazing because I have a big old Sunon80mm that is very quiet, and I overclock. There is something to be said there.

I was feeling EXACTLY how you are, andIm no newbie to this stuff. It looked perfect, but still I had high temps. Trust me.

 

[Laughingman]

Your numbers look OK to me, You will not get the really great performance without the Delta 68 CFM fan. cut the flow 40% what do you think will happen to the performance? My SK6's and Glaciator II's perform better than an 8045 with the 50cfm fan I have on my AlpHa. In fact my glaciator's perform the same as an 8045 with a 68 Delta. I have 12 computers in my office so I am always mixing and matching different components and I for one will never buy another Alpha as there are less expensive, better alternatives out there.

I read more problems with board mounts on that sink than any other on the forums. It is not real user friendly, although not to terribly complex it is more prone to errors on mount. From your numbers I believe you have it mounted right. If you can stand the noise get a bigger fan.

 

[MoFunk]

<< Your numbers look OK to me, You will not get the really great performance without the Delta 68 CFM fan.

<<

Not entirely true. I have an enermax adjustable fan that is set between low and medium. It is almost silent. So it is probably doing close to 30 cfm, but with the case cooling that I have my temps are great! I am also using an LCD thermal probe to get more accurate temps. My 1600@1628 was giving me 50c tops for full load. I have since backed down to 1.55 and getting a top of 43c. So you can get good cooling without a screaming fan!

 

[Laughingman]

For a 1400 TBird it looks about right with a low speed fan.

 

[sojin]

Hi, all - really appreciate all of your replies here, and the effort...

I am positive I used the flat washers on mobo. Before I bought it, I knew it's a non-traditional HS
and read the installation guide carefully... and the guide is good, professional BTW

used a tool to hold the nuts, so it didn't knock off the resistor on the back of mobo.

Also used the extra flat washers on the screws to increase pressure.

I did dig around before stood up... seems i got all the usual pitfalls covered...

But, I must have missed STH... but what is it

 

[Laughingman]

I believe you have it installed OK. The half a dozen reviews I have read with a thermal propbe on the side core Temps generally ran 40-45 C with a 68 Delta fan. Just a simple mental adjustment different boards, different ambient temps that looks like a reasonable range of operation.

It is not unreasonble considering the above that you could easily drop 5-10C at the stock speed with a 40% lesser fan

 

[FlowerMan]

Reasons why your PAL8045 may not be performing as well as you'd like:

1) HSF not mounted correctly
2) HSF not lapped
3) Thermal Compound improperly applied (see AS website for instructions)
4) Fan is a dud (what brand & model did you say it was? 42CFM is not that great of a description)
5) In-socket thermistor is notoriously inaccurate; only use it for a general idea of what your temps are. Main thing to look at is the delta between the idle and load temps, although they may be compressed.
6) Case airflow sucks (should be more or less intake = exhaust, with at least 50-75CFM in and out)
7) Obstructions of air to HSF?

 

[sojin]

Nice summary, flowerMan -

>>> 1) HSF not mounted correctly
triple-checked, just nothing i could find wrong

>>> 2) HSF not lapped
that could be my work for this weekend, if I am desperate enough, and can fix my car in time...

>>> 3) Thermal Compound improperly applied (see AS website for instructions)
it might be a little thick

>>> 4) Fan is a dud (what brand & model did you say it was? 42CFM is not that great of a description)
Y.S.Tech FD1281259B-2N
not willing to get another Delta screamer, and I take it as part of the merit of using a 8045...

>>> 5) In-socket thermistor is notoriously inaccurate; only use it for a general idea of what your temps are. Main thing to look at is the delta between the idle and load temps, although they may be compressed.
any suggestions? I read that any external measurement of the physical core will not yield accurate readings...

>>> 6) Case airflow sucks (should be more or less intake = exhaust, with at least 50-75CFM in and out)
I am running case-open

>>> 7) Obstructions of air to HSF?
directly blow into the hallway, PSU reading is 30C all time; chipset reading is 29C all time...

 

[FlowerMan]

>>> 4) Fan is a dud (what brand & model did you say it was? 42CFM is not that great of a description)
Y.S.Tech FD1281259B-2N
not willing to get another Delta screamer, and I take it as part of the merit of using a 8045...

Looks like a decent fan, from the Y.S. Tech charts. Agreed, you don't need a Delta to effectively cool. I use Sunon 40CFM 80mm's on the workstations at work, and have a Papst in my personal box.

>>> 5) In-socket thermistor is notoriously inaccurate; only use it for a general idea of what your temps are. Main thing to look at is the delta between the idle and load temps, although they may be compressed.
any suggestions? I read that any external measurement of the physical core will not yield accurate readings...

And your point is...? You are complaining about high temps. I am saying that maybe you are getting inaccurately high readings.

>>> 6) Case airflow sucks (should be more or less intake = exhaust, with at least 50-75CFM in and out)
I am running case-open

Contrary to most beliefs, that does not qualify as good airflow

>>> 7) Obstructions of air to HSF?
directly blow into the hallway, PSU reading is 30C all time; chipset reading is 29C all time...

hallway? wtf? Are you sure that is the chipset's temperature and not that of a thermistor located somewhere on the mobo? I'm guessing that is your case ambient temp, which is kinda high. My case temp fluctuates between 21*C and 25*C, depending on whether or not the heater is on

 

[SinnerWolf]

You can rule out the fan being the cause simply because myself and several friends are using L1A panaflos...which don't even hit 30cfm, yet keep us all between 35-50. I personally have mine set to blow onto the cpu due to the way my case handles airflow, but i don't think it matters considering you've got twice the fan power i do.

Every single problem i've heard in regard to this heatsink is solved by reinstalling. The HSF comes with 2 sets of standoffs, which correspond to different motherboards. Make sure you've got the right ones on there, or no contact occurs. Also check to see if the springs are fully tightened down or you might have uneven pressure/air pocket issues. Last thing i can advise since you mentioned the AS might be thick is to thoroughly clean and reapply a scarcely thin layer.

I'm fairly sure you've heard/done all of these things already...but ya never know. If you're still having issues with temps...then i agree with FlowerMan...it's the temperature sensing diode on the board. It's either bent, defective, or has AS on its surface. Test your 8045 on another board for clarification if possible.

Oh and...you paid $60 for yours? ? ouch.....SVCompucycle rocks @ $30. hot deals forum pays

 

[Divebrake]

The 8045 could be bumping up against some capacitors on the motherboard, preventing good seating. Some people have destroyed CPUs because they didn't notice this. My mobo, the Epox 8KHA+, has that problem. You have to file away a section of the 8045's base to prevent contact with a capacitor. If I hadn't noticed that the heatsink could have come down tilted on the CPU, resulting in poor cooling or no cooling or a crushed core.

 

[Divebrake]

Another thing, if your standoffs aren't screwed on very tightly you'll never get the heatsink screws to bottom out and the heatsink won't be snug enough on the CPU. The standoffs will just spin in place before the screws bottom out. It'll require unmounting the motherboard, but I would try to tighten the standoffs.

 

[mboy]

<< The 8045 could be bumping up against some capacitors on the motherboard, preventing good seating. Some people have destroyed CPUs because they didn't notice this. My mobo, the Epox 8KHA+, has that problem. You have to file away a section of the 8045's base to prevent contact with a capacitor. If I hadn't noticed that the heatsink could have come down tilted on the CPU, resulting in poor cooling or no cooling or a crushed core. >>



I had to do no such thing on my 8KHA+. My idle temps with the YS tech fan I orginally had on it were 34-35c

 

[Insidious]

It is very possible (likely?) that you stripped the plastic nuts when you were holding them in place during your installation. This, would of course ruin the pressure application.

You might want to check the threads on your nuts for damage and replace if necesary. it takes very little torque to cut nylon threads with metal standoff.