Anti-war Support arguments from Anti-flag

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
1
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My friend, as a supporter of the anti-war movement, recently received this list of helpful arguments from the band Anti-flag
rolleye.gif


Here is the list provided by Anti-Flag:

1. The Bush Administration is not interested in the welfare of the Iraqi
people. If they were, they would have supported dropping the economic sanctions that were imposed after the first Gulf War. These sanctions have deprived the Iraqi people adequate food, medicine, and materials necessary to rebuild the country?s infrastructure (roads, water sanitation, etc.) As a result, millions of Iraqis have died from preventable and treatable illnesses, especially children. Economic sanctions have not hurt Saddam Hussein.

2. The Bush Regime does not care about establishing a genuinely democratic
system of government in Iraq. For starters, the Bush regime snubbed its nose at democracy in action when they choose to invade Iraq without a United Nations resolution authorizing them do so, which makes this invasion illegal under international law. Secondly, if the US really cared about establishing a free and democratic society in Iraq it should not have made it possible for a ruthless leader like Saddam Hussein to be in power in the first place, never mind supporting him for many years with US military aid.

3. Quote another Republican President, Theodore Roosevelt, who in 1918
said: "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

4. Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11, according to the CIA.

5. Peace is patriotic, too.

6. The Bush Administration was never serious about weapons inspections.
The Bush Administration repeatedly stated that they were going into Iraq no matter what.

7. The Bush Administration is sending American troops into a very
dangerous situation where they could be killed, and where Iraqi civilians may be killed. The evidence that was presented by the US at the UN and to the American people was not new information, was inconclusive at best, and in some instances (such as Colin Powell?s presentation at the UN) was plagiarized from a student dissertation.

8. We want to support our troops by bringing them home, where they will be
safe, just as we want to support the citizens of Iraq by keeping them safe, too.

9. The population of Iraq is almost 50% children who are under 15. No
matter what is going on between our countries they are innocent and do not deserve to be killed, orphaned, or psychologically traumatized.

10. During the last Gulf War, President Bush Sr. encouraged Iraqis who
wanted to get rid of Saddam Hussein to rebel. They did so, and then were not backed up by the US government or coalition forces that were necessary to make their rebellion successful. The rebellion was completely crushed. If America was really serious about wanting the people of Iraq to be free, they could have achieved that goal in 1991.

11. The armbands are meant to symbolize the fact that the Bush
Administration must change its foreign policy to be more creative and peace oriented.

12. As a result of political statements (armbands, t-shirts, etc.) and
activism/protests against war by the peace movement, the US military has had to change their attitude about casualties during wartime. In the first Gulf War, when asked about the number of Iraqi dead, Colin Powell said ?That is not a number I am concerned about.? According to the US State Department the number of Iraqi?s killed was 90,000, compared to 148 US casualties. Since then, actions by peace activists calling attention to the atrocities of war has pressured the US government to take special action to limit as much as possible civilian casualties during US military actions. No loss of life is the only acceptable number, but without the actions of peace activists the numbers would be much higher.

13. The BBC reported that both the CIA and British Intelligence have
recently filed reports stating that Iraq is not a threat to anyone outside of its borders and is not likely to attack another nation unless it is attacked

::sigh::

You figure a band with as many resources could come it with a few better reasons?
 

#1 is disproven because saddam took the money that was supposed to be used to help the people to further his military buildup and other things that he wants/likes
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
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Theodore Roosevelt also said.

. Peace is generally good in itself, but it is never the highest good unless it comes as the handmaid of righteousness; and it becomes a very evil thing if it serves merely as a mask for cowardice and sloth, or as an instrument to further the ends of despotism or anarchy. We despise and abhor the bully, the brawler, the oppressor, whether in private or public life, but we despise no less the coward and the voluptuary. No man is worth calling a man who will not fight rather than submit to infamy or see those that are dear to him suffer wrong. No nation deserves to exist if it permits itself to lose the stern and virile virtues; and this without regard to whether the loss is due to the growth of a heartless and all-absorbing commercialism, to prolonged indulgence in luxury and soft, effortless ease, or to the deification of a warped and twisted sentimentality.

We should also include the entire quotation.

" The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly as necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
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Originally posted by: BunLengthHotDog
#8 :" just as we want to support the citizens of Iraq by keeping them safe, too."

rolleye.gif

BunLengthHotDog

"rolling eyes" is not a refutation of the post. It only shows your lack of any meaningful way of countering what was said.
 

BunLengthHotDog

Senior member
Feb 21, 2003
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"rolling eyes" is not a refutation of the post. It only shows your lack of any meaningful way of countering what was said.

Wait, we would keep them safe by leaving Saddam in power...did I miss something here? The statement is so ludicrous it deserves no reply.
 

Chadder007

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,560
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Originally posted by: BunLengthHotDog
"rolling eyes" is not a refutation of the post. It only shows your lack of any meaningful way of countering what was said.

Wait, we would keep them safe by leaving Saddam in power...did I miss something here? The statement is so ludicrous it deserves no reply.

OWNED
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
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Originally posted by: Chadder007
Originally posted by: BunLengthHotDog
"rolling eyes" is not a refutation of the post. It only shows your lack of any meaningful way of countering what was said.

Wait, we would keep them safe by leaving Saddam in power...did I miss something here? The statement is so ludicrous it deserves no reply.

OWNED

No one was in the juvinile vernacular "owned". If the statement is so ludicrous that it deserves no reply than one should not have been made. If you are going to make a reply than take the time to coherently explain your position.

No one was in the juvenile vernacular "owned". If the statement is so ludicrous that it deserves no reply than one should not have been made. If you are going to make a reply than take the time to coherently explain your position.

I agree that the people of Iraq will soon be in a much better situation after Saddam and his regime are gone but there will be hardships and trials on them until that is accomplished. That suffering should not be made light of or ignored. From what I have seen though I believe they think it is worth it.
 

Cancer12

Senior member
Nov 30, 2001
510
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Yeah! Anti-flag rules!!

sings
::Spaz's house destruction party
was chaos
with no end!!::
 

BunLengthHotDog

Senior member
Feb 21, 2003
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Etech,

I think you and I were in agreement, but there was a misunderstanding somewhere along the lines. My reply was to #8 about bringing our troops home where they are safe, thus un-occupying Iraq, making their people safe. That is what the Emoticon was for. Leaving Saddam in power will not keep the people in Iraq safe.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
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Originally posted by: BunLengthHotDog
Etech,

I think you and I were in agreement, but there was a misunderstanding somewhere along the lines. My reply was to #8 about bringing our troops home where they are safe, thus un-occupying Iraq, making their people safe. That is what the Emoticon was for. Leaving Saddam in power will not keep the people in Iraq safe.


I think we were in agreement but that is the reason I need people to type more than just a emoticon as their reply. It's too easy to misinterpret the meaning.

Sorry.
 

seawolf21

Member
Feb 27, 2003
199
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Originally posted by: Feldenak
Originally posted by: seawolf21
There are no UN resolutions authorizing force in the current situation.

List of UN resolutions. Check 1441

13. Recalls, in that context, that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations,

I don't know about you but to me war is serious consequences for a nation-state.

On March 7, Blix did not declared Iraq in breach of 1441. Blix said he wanted more time to draw a conclusion. 678 does not apply because 1441 was not violated.